Mad Antizionists take a pasting - Result

[frogwoman]

I think a quick perusal of the vile guff coming out of SPSC and some of the Islamist backers of these groups such as MPAC might be quite instructive for you.

so what? is spouting a load of vile guff worse than killing and torturing palestinians?

mate you seriously need to think about where your politics are heading

 

[tangentlama]

Sado-masochist in Jewish-conversion shocker

 

[Zachor]

so what? is spouting a load of vile guff worse than killing and torturing palestinians?

mate you seriously need to think about where your politics are heading

I have said on may occasions that I disagree with the current state of the Palestinians however their plight can not only be blamed on the Israeli govt, their own leaders and the govts of the Arab world also need to take some share of the blame.

Personally I'd like to see Federation spring up with an independent and secure Israel co operating with an independent and secure Palestinian state on the West Bank. However two things hold up this long term goal and dream one is the presence of the settlements and two is the danger that the Pals and the Islamists in the background will nto see a withdrawal as a magnanimous concession for the good of regional peace but will see it as weakness and more attacks on Israel will ensue.

This as I've said many times is not a tragedy for one nation but a tragedy for both.

As regards my politics the constant parade of antizionist guff form a Left that should know much better which merges into Israel hatred whilst giving the Syrian dictatorship a free ride is pushing me more to the centre right.

 

[nino_savatte]

How about being repeatedly invaded and threatened by the mentalist dictatorships that surrounds it.


I'm saying Israel is better than its neighbours in so far as all its citizens Jew Muslim or Christian can vote in free and fair elections.

You've sort of taken over where R18 left off. Now all you need to do is use "" when you talk of the Palestinians.

 

[Zachor]

You've sort of taken over where R18 left off. Now all you need to do is use "" when you talk of the Palestinians.

There is no way on earth am I as extreme as R18. I've never referred to the Pals as 'squatters' for instance.

 

[nino_savatte]

There is no way on earth am I as extreme as R18. I've never referred to the Pals as 'squatters' for instance.

Rubbish and it's only a matter of time before you start using "" when talking about Palestinians.

 

[tangentlama]

"Zachor" said:"I've stuck all sorts of stuff up my arse including walkie talkie antennas, hairbrushes etc"

 

[Zachor]

As Zachor admitted in his previous guise as Keyboard Jockey, Harry's Place is really his spiritual home - "the decent, pro-war Left"

I have a lot of sympathy for the Decent Left as I still think that they exist. For the record I was against the action in Iraq but in favour of action against the Taliban.

One of the great cock ups of the Bush regime was to divert needed resources from defeating the Islamic Fascists of the Taliban etc into the disasterous morass of Iraq.

 

[nino_savatte]

"Zachor" said:"I've stuck all sorts of stuff up my arse including walkie talkie antennas, hairbrushes etc"

That would explain an awful lot...I wonder how many other things are up his arse...I know he tends to talk out of it a lot these days.

 

[Zachor]

"Zachor" said:"I've stuck all sorts of stuff up my arse including walkie talkie antennas, hairbrushes etc"

What goes up my arse doesn't give you a headache.

 

[nino_savatte]

I have a lot of sympathy for the Decent Left as I still think that they exist. For the record I was against the action in Iraq but in favour of action against the Taliban.

One of the great cock ups of the Bush regime was to divert needed resources from defeating the Islamic Fascists of the Taliban etc into the disasterous morass of Iraq.

You're rather fond of these daft phrases..."Cod Left" and now, "Decent Left"...who the fuck are the "Decent Left"? The Eustonites?

 

[Zachor]

You're rather fond of these daft phrases..."Cod Left" and now, "Decent Left"...who the fuck are the "Decent Left"? The Eustonites?

I would classify decent lefts as those who believe in social justice, accept the principle of liberal interventionism where necessary, have no truck with fash whether from the nationalist nor islamist world, accept that a free society has to be a mixed economy with support for those who are unable to support themselves and that certain sectors of the economy should be publicly owned or controlled.

 

[nino_savatte]

I would classify decent lefts as those who believe in social justice, accept the principle of liberal interventionism where necessary, have no truck with fash whether from the nationalist nor islamist world, accept that a free society has to be a mixed economy with support for those who are unable to support themselves and that certain sectors of the economy should be publicly owned or controlled.

Stop it! I'm pissing myself with laughter here.

All of this said by a recent convert to Conservatism too.

Priceless!

 

[nino_savatte]

So the "Decent Left" is formed by the Eustonites - non?

 

[Zachor]

So the "Decent Left" is formed by the Eustonites - non?

There are 'eustonites'invoved but thats not the whole story.

 

[Zachor]

Stop it! I'm pissing myself with laughter here.

All of this said by a recent convert to Conservatism too.

Priceless!

I do believe that in the current political situation the Tories are the least worst option but that doesn't mean that I agree with all their policies. I just feel that they are less dangerous in the long term than more NL.

 

[nino_savatte]

There are 'eustonites'invoved but thats not the whole story.

Hein? Perhaps Gisela Stuart is more to your liking - non?

 

[nino_savatte]

I do believe that in the current political situation the Tories are the least worst option but that doesn't mean that I agree with all their policies. I just feel that they are less dangerous in the long term than more NL.

You and your "least worst option" schtick....there's something inherently dishonest about adopting that position: namely the fact that you've ditched any principles that you once may have had in order to suck up to your new buddies.

 

[tangentlama]

Have you ever stuck a Tory up your bum for pleasure?

 

[Zachor]

Have you ever stuck a Tory up your bum for pleasure?

Not yet but there is always time.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I would classify decent lefts as those who believe in social justice, accept the principle of liberal interventionism where necessary, have no truck with fash whether from the nationalist nor islamist world, accept that a free society has to be a mixed economy with support for those who are unable to support themselves and that certain sectors of the economy should be publicly owned or controlled.

What you're talking about is a form of liberal centrism. It has bugger-all to do with a "decent left".

 

[Zachor]

What you're talking about is a form of liberal centrism. It has bugger-all to do with a "decent left".

Liberal centrism is certainly a much better way of running a country than either extreme leftism or extreme rightism.

I used to be a revolutionary but I've come to see that Liberal Democracy is really the least worst forms of government.

 

[Nigel]

I have said on may occasions that I disagree with the current state of the Palestinians however their plight can not only be blamed on the Israeli govt, their own leaders and the govts of the Arab world also need to take some share of the blame.

Personally I'd like to see Federation spring up with an independent and secure Israel co operating with an independent and secure Palestinian state on the West Bank. However two things hold up this long term goal and dream one is the presence of the settlements and two is the danger that the Pals and the Islamists in the background will nto see a withdrawal as a magnanimous concession for the good of regional peace but will see it as weakness and more attacks on Israel will ensue.

This as I've said many times is not a tragedy for one nation but a tragedy for both.

As regards my politics the constant parade of antizionist guff form a Left that should know much better which merges into Israel hatred whilst giving the Syrian dictatorship a free ride is pushing me more to the centre right.

I know this may seem controvercial, and slightly off the point, but the concept of ARAB. Where does it genuinely come from? What does it genuinly mean? Was it a concept developed by 19th century Western Historians, similar to Zionist conceptions of Jewishness.

 

[nino_savatte]

Liberal centrism is certainly a much better way of running a country than either extreme leftism or extreme rightism.

I used to be a revolutionary but I've come to see that Liberal Democracy is really the least worst forms of government.

You seem to have taken the same trajectory as:

David Horowitz
Michael Savage
Alfred Sherman

 

[ViolentPanda]

I do believe that in the current political situation the Tories are the least worst option but that doesn't mean that I agree with all their policies. I just feel that they are less dangerous in the long term than more NL.

Give over with your "I'm voting tory, but my heart isn't really in it, I'm just doing what I think's best for everyone" schtick. Anyone who's read your posts and watched your swing from left to right is at least partially informed of the real reason.

 

[Zachor]

You seem to have taken the same trajectory as:

David Horowitz
Michael Savage
Alfred Sherman

In terms of abandoning a leftism that guarantees despotism then I'm probably more similar in view to Horwitz and Sherman but not to the same extremes. Can't see where my views match with Savage. I've more in common with the many ex trots who have seen the error oftheir ways (esp in my case as I ws for a short while an SWP member).

 

[ViolentPanda]

Liberal centrism is certainly a much better way of running a country than either extreme leftism or extreme rightism.

Who's talking about extremes? Not me, so please don't use a fear of extremism as a fig-leaf for centrist, triangulatory policy-makers and their loathing of doing anything that actually matters politically.

 

[nino_savatte]

In terms of abandoning a leftism that guarantees despotism then I'm probably more similar in view to Horwitz and Sherman but not to the same extremes. Can't see where my views match with Savage. I've more in common with the many ex trots who have seen the error oftheir ways (esp in my case as I ws for a short while an SWP member).

There's no more a conservative than a born-again conservative; it's as if you have something to prove.

As befits the born-again, you make some astonishing claims about the 'left' and will resort to using some pretty daft phrases: "cod left" and "decent left" being two examples. What I often find with those who suddenly lurch from left to right is that they had no principles to start with and are opportunists of the worst kind.

 

[Zachor]

There's no more a conservative than a born-again conservative; it's as if you have something to prove.

As befits the born-again, you make some astonishing claims about the 'left' and will resort to using some pretty daft phrases: "cod left" and "decent left" being two examples. What I often find with those who suddenly lurch from left to right is that they had no principles to start with and are opportunists of the worst kind.

Utter bollocks. I've done my bit for socialism and have slowly begun to realise that it doesn't work or should I say the sort of socialism promulgated by socialists doesnt work. Thats nto to say that social justice shouldn't be an aim its just I have no faith in socialism as a political system.

 

[Spion]

I know this may seem controvercial, and slightly off the point, but the concept of ARAB. Where does it genuinely come from? What does it genuinly mean? Was it a concept developed by 19th century Western Historians, similar to Zionist conceptions of Jewishness.

Arab nationalism arose in the late 19th-early 20th century among Arab intellectuals and politicos, based on a common language and culture, in the context of increasing great power control of the Arab world and the rise of ideas of national self determination