Macedonia v England tonight
- Thread starter Brixton Hatter
- Start date
The score, please!
The qualifying round is, in reality, Englands European Championships. In the same way that when a 3rd division team draws Man Utd in the FA Cup, they call it "their cup final".
This is the only place where England are comfortable playing football. Once things get to the white hot intensity of the championships themselves, they can't cope.
Once England qualify, that is effectively the end of the European Championships for them. So ...enjoy it while it lasts.
This is the only place where England are comfortable playing football. Once things get to the white hot intensity of the championships themselves, they can't cope.
Once England qualify, that is effectively the end of the European Championships for them. So ...enjoy it while it lasts.
You've finally realised then.
Your expectations are too high zed that's your trouble.
Next time try to enjoy the tournament and England's (if we get there) role in it, thick and thin, rather than believing we have some divine right to win everything and feeling personally let down by the side when we bow out.
Or maybe you should stick to your word and support the oppo?
Your expectations are too high zed that's your trouble.
Next time try to enjoy the tournament and England's (if we get there) role in it, thick and thin, rather than believing we have some divine right to win everything and feeling personally let down by the side when we bow out.
Or maybe you should stick to your word and support the oppo?
But that is just it ...I don't think they have any divine right to win. It is all the other people who big up their chances that tend to feel that way. I just want to see them evolve a little. To do what a country like France have done over the past 15 years, for example.
As of the World Cup, I just want to see whichever team that plays the best, win. Often that will require me to be happy to see whatever team England are playing to beat them. If I had Sky TV, I wouldn't have watched England-Macedonia last night, I would have watched France-Italy instead. Better product all round.
I've done the "thick and thin" stuff with England for many years and just got tired of watching the same mistakes being made over and over and over again.
As of the World Cup, I just want to see whichever team that plays the best, win. Often that will require me to be happy to see whatever team England are playing to beat them. If I had Sky TV, I wouldn't have watched England-Macedonia last night, I would have watched France-Italy instead. Better product all round.
I've done the "thick and thin" stuff with England for many years and just got tired of watching the same mistakes being made over and over and over again.
France "evolved" because they had a crop of world class players, Rooney aside we don't really have any, as once again Gerrard proved last night. We're never going to do a Greece because it's not our way.
Just be happy that we qualify like the Spanish are learning to be, and the likes of Russia, Norway, Bulgaria, Scotland, Wales et al would give their right bollock for.
Just be happy that we qualify like the Spanish are learning to be, and the likes of Russia, Norway, Bulgaria, Scotland, Wales et al would give their right bollock for.
Bonfirelight
Crocodile
zed said:
You want to try supporting crawley town.
If you support a team you go out, hoping they'll do well, only to watch them fuck it all up. And then do the same next time and the time after that.
To be honest if England actually went out and started winning things it'd be weird.
Hard-done-by defeats. that's where it's at.
As for 'coping with white hot intensity blah blah blah' , most teams fall by the wayside during a tournament, but we still enjoy it just as much for the small victories (Holland 96, Germany 00, Argentina 02 etc) until the eventual and predictable failure.
If thats all you expect of England then you'll be a happy (if often frustrated) supporter, and with a slice of luck and a good following wind you might even be pleasantly suprised come Euro 08.
maybe.
I think you have been conditioned to expect failure because of the way England play and the way the FA act.
This country has the infrasrtructure, the numbers and the money to produce better quality sportspeople than they do. Maybe it's something in the "mustn't grumble" culture that allows this to happen?
France did not simply get lucky by having lots of world class players ...they worked to make that happen. It wasn't a coincidence.
My biggest grumble with the England national side is their consistent lack of mental strength. Being a plucky loser is more often than not just a state of mind. This really pisses me off about British sport in general.
This country has the infrasrtructure, the numbers and the money to produce better quality sportspeople than they do. Maybe it's something in the "mustn't grumble" culture that allows this to happen?
France did not simply get lucky by having lots of world class players ...they worked to make that happen. It wasn't a coincidence.
My biggest grumble with the England national side is their consistent lack of mental strength. Being a plucky loser is more often than not just a state of mind. This really pisses me off about British sport in general.
The Pious Pawn
I Can
Frances youth set up is light years ahead of ours imho , We have four world class players at present Rooney , A Cole , Hargreaves and Gerrard apart from that we have over hyped players . Football is changeing in this country, But like someone has said we dont have the mentaility in this country for build up play the fans get on players backs .
zed said:
Actually considering the investment in sport in England, its surprising that we do as well at sports as we do. A few years ago I saw some figures for investment per head. In England it was 20p, in Australia and France quite similar at around the 12-14 quid mark. A substantial difference. So for that, I think we do alright.
People get behind the ENgland team massively for tournaments, but then spend the rest of the time supporting premiership teams which are mostly foreign, the heart of the reason for which is that sports programmes at our schools are so bad these days, and the government invests so little money.
Hardly a great performance, but at least the defence showed resolution. While Crouch is scoring a lot of vital goals, I remain unconvinced by him as a target man up front. Defoe was anonymous, Downing poor and Neville wasteful.
I do hope that Rooney and Cole bring some class back to the team when they return, otherwise we will struggle against Croatia when we play them away.
Still .... two matches, six points, so even if we haven't exactly shone in either match, it's a good start.
I do hope that Rooney and Cole bring some class back to the team when they return, otherwise we will struggle against Croatia when we play them away.
Still .... two matches, six points, so even if we haven't exactly shone in either match, it's a good start.
There are three teams in the group who are much better than Macedonia: Russia (with Guus in charge), Croatia (consistently at the world cup) and Israel (playing quite well seemingly). So we will have to improve to get past those 3.
RenegadeDog said:
Wow ...I didn't realise the numbers were that disparate. Fucking hell.
So, if no one is going to do anything then I guess we should all be grateful that England even qualify for tournaments. Which brings me back to my original point.
I think maybe I do expect too much from them afterall.
zed said:
Well, I think we should do something about it. And thankfully at least my club has a decent youth academy. But not enough do.
As to expectations, I usually expect around the quarter finals. If we fail to qualify we are underachieving, semis would be a good achievement, a final amaazing, to actually win unheard of.
Re. Downing, do people not think that dropping him for Cole would screw the equilibrium of the team and return to the mistake of the Eriksson era? Cole isn't a winger and he will get in Lampard's, or preferably Gerrard's way. He's a good player and different from those two in his close control, so I would keep him in reserve as another option to play in the centre. Downing isn't ideal I know, but lack of other options to be a geniune left winger mean he still plays for me. I think he gets a bit of a bum rap from some because he, like them all, is judged by what club he plays for. Case in point; no-one advocated Crouch when he was a Southampton player.
Also, whilst I agree Hargreaves has done a good job there, what do people think about the other options holding, like Carrick and Parker?
Also, whilst I agree Hargreaves has done a good job there, what do people think about the other options holding, like Carrick and Parker?
The Pious Pawn
I Can
We have a few options instead of downing .A Cole & J Cole , Bridge and Barry are all international class and could do a adequate job on the left much better than downing who's only visable asset is his ability to suck Mclarens cock . He did fuck all in the uefa cup last year and in the final got played of the pitch by alves . Ive said it before and i will say it again we have another cretin in Mclaren and we will do fuck all under him , Get ready for the defeats because they are not far away . A team should be picked on the players in the best club form or are produceing it at international level . Something lampard and downing are not . I though Jol was a clever fella but 10m !!! 
.
.In terms of the three contenders for the holding role, it seems they're all quite different. Hargreaves is more safe as a deconstructor of opposition attacks, whereas Carrick has a vast range of passing skills with either foot which can be used to turn play around in a split second, although he's less physical in the tackle. Parker I've seen less of but seems in part to be a cross between the two. The problem stems from the fact that if you play two of them then Gerrard had to go out wide and we lose the unique strengths of Lennon. So my thinking is that Gerrard partners one of them, and who depends largely on the team. We should be able to have more than one game plan and given the disparity between Hargreaves and Carrick they could both be very effective against different opponents.
However, with two of the three it does free up more space for Rooney when he comes back, as he looked very enclosed with both Gerrard and Lampard there high up the park. Whichever way, I think Lampard needs to be dropped, if only as another signal that no-one is above being consigned to the bench.
However, with two of the three it does free up more space for Rooney when he comes back, as he looked very enclosed with both Gerrard and Lampard there high up the park. Whichever way, I think Lampard needs to be dropped, if only as another signal that no-one is above being consigned to the bench.
