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Macedonia and greece ... wtf?

No it's cool. I know you're not trying to excuse the Greek POV, I'm just finding it really interesting, and i'm totally aware that imperialism doesn't just apply to the US :). I never knew that Greece tried so much to mess around in the affairs of other countries :eek:Why do you think it does this, Dimitris?
 
From b92:

BUCHAREST -- Macedonia must bear responsibility for it’s failure to secure an invitation to join NATO, officials have told BIRN.

“Despite all American efforts, the Macedonians did nothing to help their cause,” a senior NATO source told Balkan Insight.

Macedonia will only receive an invitation to join NATO when its "name" dispute with Greece has been resolved.

According to some sources, officials in Washington had given “friendly’ advice to Skopje politicians several months ago, suggesting that they change the name of the international airport in Skopje, which was recently given the formal name of “Alexander the Great,” after the famous ancient Macedonian hero.

“This would have been a sign of goodwill by the Macedonians, and we would then have had something with which to keep up the pressure,” one senior NATO official said.

However, noting that the airport's name had not been changed he concluded that “they didn’t help us to help them.”

Greek officials predictably took a similar view.

“The government in Skopje was unhelpful during the whole process,” a senior Greek official told Balkan Insight.

“We understand the frustration of the Macedonian people but on the other hand we made it clear long ago that we are not bluffing and they kept calling our bluff.”

Macedonian officials, who left the NATO summit early, strongly disagreed.

“Nobody minded the label ‘Macedonia” on our soldiers uniforms when they were risking their lives along with NATO soldiers,” said Foreign Minister Antonio Miloshoski after confirmation that the country's NATO bid had failed because of the “name” issue.

Miloshoski warned the Balkans could enter a period of turbulence again because of a lack of consensus among NATO member states.

“The risks of future instability in the region could be the direct responsibility of Greece,” he said.

Only Albania and Croatia were invited to joint NATO, while Macedonia, which had hoped to receive an invitation, was left disappointed.

NATO officials said in Bucharest that Macedonia may not have to wait until the next summit before it receives an invitation.

“We agreed that an invitation to FYROM will be extended as soon as a mutually acceptable solution to the 'name' issue has been reached,” Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said.

Athens opposes Skopje’s constitutional name “Republic of Macedonia” arguing that it might lead Skopje to make territorial claims over its own northern province, which is also called Macedonia.

Greece also challenges modern Macedonians as being heirs to ancient Macedonian heroes such as Alexander the Great.


Thats completely ridiculous...
 

The "example" with Texas is quite good actually, it gives you a description of what happens. I don't agree with the conclusion though....

I did read a bit other greek member's posts on that board, they are all far-right nationalists, which is understandable as we are talking about a "military photos" message board... It can also be understood from the avatars that they are using
 
Just a few little problems...

I have heard some of the Greeks in church object based on ethnicity but that is just nonsense. Should the Greeks have to stop using the name Hellas as they are no longer ethnically the same as the Hellenes of Homer's time? If we want to get down to it the Hellenes of the 4th century BC rejected the Macedonians for not being ethnically Greek anyway.

Good post. France is named after a Germanic tribe, so what? Different example but - "who cares" is the right attitude today, ffs!!!

Bad post:

On that time most of the Greek populations living in Serbia and Bulgaria were exchanged with the Slavic populations living in Greece. For simplicity I use the word “exchange” because this is not the time to blame either side for any atrocities.

"Exchanged"? Interesting...

Complete shambles:

So calling someone “Macedonian” has a regional sense, Greek Macedonians are the Greeks living in the Greek part of Macedonia, Slav Macedonians are the populations living in the former Yugoslav part of Macedonia and the Bulgarian part of Macedonia.

The guy has no idea about an idea... What with Greeks in Macedonia and Bulgaria? Shouldn't they be treated with some care and attention? That is some nasty politics the Greek politicians are playing with them, that is!

And what with Slavic Macedonians living in Greece? Maybe there are none whatsoever? Maybe we should forget what actually happened in at least some of those last "exchanges"?

Or are the Greeks still smarting after the last "exchange" with the Turks?

And why should Macedonians pay for Greek failure?

Macedonians laying a territorial claim to Greece -> like Mexicans to American territory? And that's a serious claim, is it? Americans are shitting themselves out of sheer fear, are they?!?

Btw, the Slavic Macedonians expelled from Greece [in the post WW 2 Greek civil war, with left/right "nature" heavily built into it], whose property was subsequently taken away from them - what with those little issues? I mean, in former ex-Communist countries they have already or are returning those to their "rightful [right wing, politically speaking] owners", so why is the ex-rightwing-dictatorship, that is to say today's capitalist Greece to be exempted somehow [and the "left wing" Macedonian owners are somehow not to be included in the "return of property to their rightful owners"?]?

Maybe this kind of "territorial claim" [which would not take a huge chunk of territory out of Greece] is the real sticky point?

Overall, mythical claptrap of the sort where one has to have sawdust for brains...
 
good post gorski (well it seems like it is anyway given that i have no idea about any of this!!) but i'm learning a lot ... :)
 
The "example" with Texas is quite good actually, it gives you a description of what happens. I don't agree with the conclusion though....

I did read a bit other greek member's posts on that board, they are all far-right nationalists, which is understandable as we are talking about a "military photos" message board... It can also be understood from the avatars that they are using

lol yep ...
 
This Kosovo land dispute with Macedonia looks like it could get nasty.

cross posting this from the other thread:

http://www.newkosovareport.com/2008...ganizing-against-ethnic-decentralization.html

Debelldeh is part of Kosovo
This weekend, a TV station in Kosovo published an interview with armed fighters near Debelldeh who claimed they were going to resist demarcation of the new border between Macedonia and Kosovo with force. In 2001, Serbia and Macedonia agreed, with the approval of UNMIK, to assign 2,500 hectares of Kosovo to Macedonia, including the village of Debelldeh. Lëvizja VETËVENDOSJE! has supported and is ready to help the villagers in their nonviolent resistance to this unjust border decision, but we believe that nonviolence is the only method through which this injustice can be stopped.

how serious is the problem of albanian separatism in macedonia really - whats the situation now? i'd be interested to know why some of them don't want to be part of macedonia ... i mean is it just more "greater albania" type nationalism shite or do they actually have legitimate reasons for it?
 
Well..... the term imperealism does not necessarily apply only for the USA you know... In the same manner that the US are involved even on the internal matters of other countries (in order to serve their own interests), Greece is doing it to its neighbours... but of course in a smaller scale. Macedonia is a country where greek capitalism is trying to expand, various greek bussinesses allready exist there, either targeting the macedonian market or transfering their bussinesses there as labour costs are cheaper, a lot of macedonians come to Greece as cheap labour, in a lot of cases working 12 hours a day under the sun as not insured land workers for the greek farmers.... Greece is trying to show its strength as it is one of the richest countries in the balkans, allready a member of the EU and NATO, and is trying to play its role in the new developments of the area.

You may have seen the whole anti-war and left movement in various protests using the USA flag but with a swastika instead of the stars in the corner of the flag....this seems similar... It is a recent artwork of an macedonian artist, the family in the centre is his family that had to migrate during the greek civil war. Who knows we may see more of this kind of protest in the future..

An anti-NATO protest will take place today in Skopje.. It seems that the left movement in Macedonia is waking.

http://balkans.puscii.nl/?q=node/42

makedonija_anti-nato1.jpg


Some info on VMRO, the political party that the current macedonian government is coming from can be found on the following article:


Article from Wikipedia

The reason that I give you this info (on the political party) is not in order to excuse the greek view of things but to show, that the current regime in FYROM, is ideologically at least connected to the right-wing nationalist organizations that were fighting during that period....

Is there any real continuity between today's VMRO (IMRO) and the VMRO that tore itself to pieces when the leadership literally murdered itself in the 20's?

They claim to have links with the Republican Party in the US and a whole list of rather nasty looking nationalist parties in Europe.
 
VMRO/DPMNE, if memory serves, had a "leader" and a psycho/social profile that kept sending shivers down my spine... of the horror kind... :(

The capacities of people of the same type were obvious when a minister from the Gov [not sure which party] was caught red handed in all kinds of [war] crimes...:hmm:

Btw, their [Macedonian right wingers] hatred and fear of Albanians were and are obvious. Moreover, it's not completely silly to presume that there is a connection between "their" Albanians and the Kosovan Albanians...

It's rife for an escalation...

Gawd, I hope I'm wrong on this one...:(
 
VMRO/DPMNE, if memory serves, had a "leader" and a psycho/social profile that kept sending shivers down my spine... of the horror kind... :(

The capacities of people of the same type were obvious when a minister from the Gov [not sure which party] was caught red handed in all kinds of [war] crimes...:hmm:

Btw, their [Macedonian right wingers] hatred and fear of Albanians were and are obvious. Moreover, it's not completely silly to presume that there is a connection between "their" Albanians and the Kosovan Albanians...

It's rife for an escalation...

Gawd, I hope I'm wrong on this one...:(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7429712.stm :(
 
[The Greeks should be chastised by the EU - and nothing happens....]

Heh, and how much for the Albanian parties?!?

Besides, it's more like 2:1, not a quarter.

I really hope I'm wrong on this one...

We'll see. And soon...
 
[The Greeks should be chastised by the EU - and nothing happens....]

Heh, and how much for the Albanian parties?!?

Besides, it's more like 2:1, not a quarter.

I really hope I'm wrong on this one...

We'll see. And soon...

Yeah, I don't understand why Greece is allowed to get away with everything it's doing?

Is it seen as like a peacemaker in the Balkans or something? :confused:
 
Sadly, just the utterly unintelligent, conscience-less and incompetent power broker.:( See enlargement of the EU or NATO etc.:hmm:
 
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