M19 - pointless stunt or worthwhile action?
- Thread starter winjer
- Start date
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Ah, the term "liberal". How infinitely malleable it is.
"When I use a word", said Humpty Dumpty....
"When I use a word", said Humpty Dumpty....
e19896's is the only sane person on these boards. Things either change by using passive or violent resistance not student day out. The MC like to be beaten up by the police. To them it is a right of passage before they hit 30 become part of the state, live in 'stokeee' and brag about their wild student days on the weekends that they are not in their second home in france
Is Ferentes spanish for fartyperson? or fantasist
Sorry Donna i forgot that you were on the run with a price on your head because you are doing sooooo much work to improve the plight of the worlds weak
Is Ferentes spanish for fartyperson? or fantasist
Sorry Donna i forgot that you were on the run with a price on your head because you are doing sooooo much work to improve the plight of the worlds weakOi!winjer said:Is it a pointless stunt?
Is it evil and anti-democratic?
or
Is it something else...
Sack Parliament - pointless stunt or worthwhile action?
Hey, you asked.winjer said:
The point I'm making is that truly meaningful collective action is rooted in the everyday experience of the participants, as opposed to safe, sterile "actions" like M19, they are a true expression of working class power and solidarity.
winjer
holocene death beat
And the point you are missing is that your safe, sterile fetishised fantasy of the "true" working class prevents you from comprehending that the impetus behind M19 is absolutely rooted in the everyday experience of the participants, for example, people accused of involvement in terrorism.In Bloom said:
The Black Hand
Unclean
In Bloom said:
Not on this one I don't. There is no automatic right to speak about other peoples actions/protests just like that, given that you don't know;
Who will be involved in the mobilisation.
What events to encourage participation will be done beforehand.
What range of publicity material will be circulated beforehand.
How many will go.
And so on...
In the absence of such knowledge you spreading doubts IS traitorous as far as I can see - and I mean that honestly. You are not persuading me you are on the side of protesters and protest with your CONSTANT SCEPTICISM...
By "people accused of involvement in terrorism", do you mean a few ex-Wombles who've been nicked under the Terrorism act once or twice?winjer said:
And quite what's safe, sterile or fetishised about the example I gave, I don't know. All people like you and Teejay ever do is make some feeble attempt to throw other people's words back at them, regardless of applicability or accuracy. Try making a reasoned argument once in a while, eh?
winjer
holocene death beat
No, I mean people accused of involvement in terrorism. I'm not aware that any Wombles have ever been nicked under the Terrorism Act.In Bloom said:
People who live in a leafy village shouting at pedlos==working class heroes.In Bloom said:
People who live in London and visibly confront the state==middle-class student substitutionists.
That's the sum total of your analysis so far.
In Bloom said:
agreed, and why? because they like to feed oh well you have heard it before nuff said why debate with some obvious fools the anarchist movement(???????) in the uk has been the biggest running joke for too many years and at a detriment to those they self righteously religiously with fervour and saliva coming from there mouths are no better than the fucking trots who self righteously religiously with fervour and saliva coming from their mouths and like the bnp they self righteously, religiously with fervour and saliva coming from there mouths are a true detriment to the emancipation liberation of the working class and have you seen this set of self righteously religiously with fervor and slather coming from there mouths, fools in action theyre a joke and the working class in reality know this.. (northern sarcasm kicking how it should)
PS always have ponderd this thought: why is your propaganda like good porn not wipe clean so when you masturbate over it you can wipe and store it though kropotkin said property was theft some people dont half love there collection of politcal porn do they not?
Who are these people? What, specifically, were they accused of? What were the outcomes of these accusations? Exactly how serious were these accusations that they form part of the fabric of everyday life for the mass of the participants in the action?winjer said:
I'm pretty sure a few of the Wombles have been nicked using anti-terror laws. That's what they told me in Glasgow anyway.
Ah, now you're taking this all far too personally. I never said that the people involved in M19 were all middle class, it's not about the individuals involved but their social role and the function of their actions. Working class people are capable of substitutionism too.
I like the "shouting at pedlos" bit, by the way, nice contempt for people living in social housing who happen to be pissed off with having an unreformed child murderer placed amongst them with no warning or consultation whatsoever you've got going there.
winjer
holocene death beat
Not questions I'm prepared to answer on an open forum, I'm afraid.In Bloom said:
Your reactionary views are your own business. There's no contempt involved at all, it simply that having (previously) lived near Bishop's Lydeard for 15 years and still having friends there, I know who most of the people protesting outside his house are, and that the vast majority of them do not live in social housing, which there isn't much of in the village in any case.In Bloom said:
Whereas your knowledge of the people (and their "alienat[ion] from their role as proletarians") involved in Sack Parliament or M19 is based on what, precisely?
Now did i say this or is this just your own paranoia comeing into play?
Are you middle class?
This needs to be siad one is an active meber of Sheffield Green Party (erm what) and i know and work with meny Middle Class you i do not have a problem with them all but agree one is openly classist but not intolrant to them all..
Not digging my self out any hole i stick to my comments..
Are you middle class?
This needs to be siad one is an active meber of Sheffield Green Party (erm what) and i know and work with meny Middle Class you i do not have a problem with them all but agree one is openly classist but not intolrant to them all..
Not digging my self out any hole i stick to my comments..
The Black Hand
Unclean
In Bloom said:
This is pure ultra leftism. You are here discounting the entire history of struggle over the state form, formal and informal. The British state, contrary to your apparent belief is founded upon its relative historical freedom rather than coercion. It is this hegemony that is important. To talk about the anrchist movement as separate from this and something 'that could be crushed' is actually a huge flaw in your de facto elitist politics, that you are so separate from the working class and other progressive forces that you could be done away with, with no consequence...
The Black Hand
Unclean
Look, here's a bit of room for debate^ grammar clarification etc too, and where is he?
In Bloom said:
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