M1 widening to cost 5 billion

[untethered]

I didn't read your comment on investment in all forms of transport (which I agree with, incidentally) as a response to me: certainly, it didn't cast any doubt on the fact that, as I pointed out, people have been saying for more than half a century that more and more roads are the solution to congestion and they've been wrong every time.

Indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I did wonder if you'd come out with the 'car bashing' line... Sorry garf, but it's a tedious cliche, and in my case you should know perfectly well I've nothing against cars - just against those who refuse to see that they're not an unalloyed blessing.

I didn't read your comment on investment in all forms of transport (which I agree with, incidentally) as a response to me: certainly, it didn't cast any doubt on the fact that, as I pointed out, people have been saying for more than half a century that more and more roads are the solution to congestion and they've been wrong every time.

they aren'tt heonly soultion but this is being painted as an either or here it's not that simple it's part of an entire raft of changes which need to be implemnted together in order to resolve that road maintianence AND pulbic transport which is convient frequent clean and reliable AND more people not using cars for short journies AND road which have been dramitically altered to accomidate road claming schemes which cause congestion (your example which i have used many times is essex road in islington. lights go green and 200 yards up the road lights go red nothign mvoes cars hafl pull out oncoming traffic can't then move lights are green for about 45 seconds bus lane is narrowed and pushed back into main road becuase of pavement widening so buses can't get out neithe rcan traffic due to the double set of lights and then the traffic on the main upper street level go green again and pile into the space. result all traffic on that junction takes around 45 mins to clear it... the resultant tailbacks and local congestion makes the whole area of essex road and upperstreet (near angel) totally unnavigable for a larger perecentage of the day...
(awaits city dreams to tell me it's not that bad despite not acutally using it or even being away of it despite it being my classic case inpoint.)

and as for road works to city road and shoreditch high street weren't removed until the day before the c chare came in but of course these didn't dramitically incerease the level of congestion into the city oh no...

finally as for your no proof bullshit claim...

sorry but can you please point out the figures for traffic into the captial at the time you claim traffic was moving quicker? oh would it be at precisely the same time as figures for traffic into central london were falling indeed had fallen past the predicited figures the congetion charge was supposed to reduce the overall number by after 1 year...

so again less traffic into london meant quiker times (stands to reason) so the fact that times weren't acutally increasing exponentially despite there being less traffic would be indicative of problems in the system nespas...

awaits city dreams to scream it's all lies focaus on aminor point to dismiss the major points and then claim i h've said summit i didn't... as usual....

so yes love you spouting unmigitgated bollocks is car bashing...

so please dont' use the i'm black i can't be racist defence on me... it doesn't wash...

 

[Roadkill]

Oh leave out the hysterics garf.

Provide me with one single, solitary little shred of evidence that the traffic light sequences were deliberately changed to create congestion. Just one shred of evidence - and then you might be worth taking seriously. As it is, it looks as if you're just advancing a silly conspiracy theory.

 

[citydreams]

and as for road works to city road and shoreditch high street weren't removed until the day before the c chare came in but of course these didn't dramitically incerease the level of congestion into the city oh no...

For the very last time.. stop making accusations you know nothing about. Ask questions, fine. But finger-pointing makes you look a fool.

It's no secret that road works were banned (where possible) in the introduction of congestion charging to be able to compare immediately with known figures for average speeds, flows and congestion. Ken was ready to pull the plug on day 1 if it had not worked. In which case I'm sure you'd be on here bemoaning the fact that nothing is ever done about the traffic.

 

[stavros]

Cobbles, I'm still waiting for a reply about what those of us who are unable to drive due to medical conditions should do. It's on the first page of this thread if you need a reference.

 

[rich!]

Cobbles, I'm still waiting for a reply about what those of us who are unable to drive due to medical conditions should do. It's on the first page of this thread if you need a reference.

I think you're expected to be kept out of the way of the titans of industry.

Oh, and perhaps to stop needing so much of their tax.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Oh leave out the hysterics garf.

Provide me with one single, solitary little shred of evidence that the traffic light sequences were deliberately changed to create congestion. Just one shred of evidence - and then you might be worth taking seriously. As it is, it looks as if you're just advancing a silly conspiracy theory.

where have i said they were changed to create congestion?

where i have said they are unsyched which creates congestion

again, straw man debating, in an attempt to supprt the car bashing lobby...

thanks for playing do try harder...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

For the very last time.. stop making accusations you know nothing about. Ask questions, fine. But finger-pointing makes you look a fool.

It's no secret that road works were banned (where possible) in the introduction of congestion charging to be able to compare immediately with known figures for average speeds, flows and congestion. Ken was ready to pull the plug on day 1 if it had not worked. In which case I'm sure you'd be on here bemoaning the fact that nothing is ever done about the traffic.

so that's a yes you're saying it's true then thanks for playing...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I've got nothing against cars either despite Garf's endless accusations: they're very useful things and essential for some folks.

But I am against this arrogant notion that car drivers have some sort of 'right' to drive that overrides the rights of others and that we should keep on carving up the countryside to accommodate more and more of the things while treating pedestrians as second class citizens.

We should be working to get less cars on the road, not more, and if that means slightly inconveniencing some drivers, that's a small price to pay.

please cite where this has ever been stated, in this thread or any other whch your car bashign continues unabiatied...

 

[citydreams]

thanks for playing...

thanks for playing what? attention seeking idiot seeks worthwhile response? Jeez louise, you need help.

 

[editor]

please cite where this has ever been stated, in this thread or any other whch your car bashign continues unabiatied...

Did I say I was quoting anyone's exact words?



And I do wish you'd give up this ridiculous "car bashing" nonsense. Repeating it just makes you look more stupid.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Did I say I was quoting anyone's exact words?



And I do wish you'd give up this ridiculous "car bashing" nonsense. Repeating it just makes you look more stupid.

then why mention it?

i'm against whaling and drag nets, but i don't feel the need to constantly tell people on enviroment threads or derail them with some straw man argument about the fact that the blody whaling fleets and tuna nets are totally outragous, or attempt to use a tar brush to label others with comments about them being in leguae with argircorp fisheres... yet on nearly every thread you seek to demonise and create this mythological daily mailesque vision of drivers demanding rights liek the village folk with pitch forks... and then you rally against it...

when has this ever been the case here, that these drivers seek to demand an arrogant notion that car drivers have some sort of 'right' to drive that overrides the rights of others and that we should keep on carving up the countryside to accommodate more and more of the things while treating pedestrians as second class citizens.

name the occasion.

e2a with out misquoting or using you selective quoting which oyou seemt o do when you aregument hasn't a leg to stand on..

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

thanks for playing what? attention seeking idiot seeks worthwhile response? Jeez louise, you need help.

i wouldn't call you and attentiong seeking idiot, even i'm not that harsh...

funny isn't it how continously when ever i venture and opinion you are the first to start calling names and thrrowing toys out the pram on each occasion, then at some point you say you give up then you say i'm on ignore, you never seem to actualy debate the points put accross indeed if anyone disagrees with you they get off topic abuse...

thanks for playing...

i await, with not very baited breath then next of your stock come backs...

 

[Dhimmi]

My longest regular journey is Margate to Brum, typically M2, M25 and M1. I'd be happy to do it by train if it were the same price or cheaper and somewhere near as convenient as by car, but it's not.

Typically there's 2,3 or 4 of us, luggage there, and luggage and goods back. It would be a nightmare trying to do that by train, and that's the problem isn't it?

The Motarail idea is the best one I've heard so far. The sad thing is there is no integrated transport policy, plenty of public spending for private profit though. Total bloody shambles.

 

[editor]

i'm against whaling and drag nets, but i don't feel the need to constantly tell people on enviroment threads or derail them with some straw man argument about the fact that the blody whaling fleets and tuna nets are totally outragous, or attempt to use a tar brush to label others with comments about them being in leguae with argircorp fisheres... yet on nearly every thread you seek to demonise and create this mythological daily mailesque vision of drivers demanding rights liek the village folk with pitch forks... and then you rally against it...

So you haven't read any of Cobbles' posts here then?

I suggest you do - now - because you're on course to making another arse of yourself at this rate.

 

[editor]

funny isn't it how continously when ever i venture and opinion you are the first to start calling names and thrrowing toys out the pram on each occasion, then at some point you say you give up then you say i'm on ignore, you never seem to actualy debate the points put accross indeed if anyone disagrees with you they get off topic abuse...

Oh, the irony.

 

[citydreams]

i await, with not very baited breath then next of your stock come backs...

o rly?

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5964403&postcount=38

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

So you haven't read any of Cobbles' posts here then?

I suggest you do - now - because you're on course to making another arse of yourself at this rate.

fuck me i didn't know you were a psyhic as well as a webbie... you mean all this time on each thread you have been making these straw men up knowing that cobbles would one day come along and troll and then it'd justify those comments talk about playing the long game ...it's fuckign genius i tells you.. fucking genius i see the light thank you jebus....

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

o rly?

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5964403&postcount=38

dammit i missed out irrelevent links to things of no significance when you aren't actually able to respond...

i knew there was summit....

 

[editor]

fuck me i didn't know you were a psyhic as well as a webbie... you mean all this time on each thread you have been making these straw men up knowing that cobbles would one day come along and troll and then it'd justify those comments talk about playing the long game ...it's fuckign genius i tells you.. fucking genius i see the light thank you jebus....

You're talking gibberish as usual.

Cobbles contributed the fifth and ninth posts in this thread and they were both rabidly pro-road building, inflammatory and reactionary.

You really should try reading the thread first before firing off your bizarre bullshit, you know.

 

[8ball]

So do you think 5 billion for a wider M1 is a bit on the pricey side or do you reckon you could get it cheaper?

I reckon my mate Trev could do it cheaper but it would all be cash in hand and to be honest I reckon the surface would end up a bit ropey if my drive is anything to go by.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You're talking gibberish as usual.

Cobbles contributed the fifth and ninth posts in this thread and they were both rabidly pro-road building, inflammatory and reactionary.

You really should try reading the thread first before firing off your bizarre bullshit, you know.

so should you i think you'll find i wasn't reffering to this thread... had you read the gibberish which is funny that everytime you claim to not understand my comments when they prove you are at a dead end, yet can suddenly mricaliously read them again when you choose to ... do you have selective dsylexica maybe you should join us on the dark side luke...

 

[editor]

so should you i think you'll find i wasn't reffering to this thread...

Where in this thread have you referenced another thread please?

And you'll find that Cobbles has a long, long history of posting up reactionary nonsense, so what is your point?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Where in this thread have you referenced another thread please?

And you'll find that Cobbles has a long, long history of posting up reactionary nonsense, so what is your point?

yu directly quoted it in post 110 hence my reading comment...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

fuck me i didn't know you were a psyhic as well as a webbie... you mean all this time on each thread you have been making these straw men up knowing that cobbles would one day come along and troll and then it'd justify those comments talk about playing the long game ...it's fuckign genius i tells you.. fucking genius i see the light thank you jebus....

for refference...

 

[editor]

yu directly quoted it in post 110 hence my reading comment...

I've no idea what you're on about as usual or why you choose to be so needlessly aggressive and provocative all the time, but you've succeeded in boring me off the thread for the evening.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I've no idea what you're on about as usual or why you choose to be so needlessly aggressive and provocative all the time, but you've succeeded in boring me off the thread for the evening.

you ask where did i say something i point out you've even quoted the post and requote the post in bold and this is boring you by pointing out the thing you asked to be pointed out...

i guess there's no pleaseing some people...

 

[citydreams]

So do you think 5 billion for a wider M1 is a bit on the pricey side or do you reckon you could get it cheaper?

I reckon my mate Trev could do it cheaper but it would all be cash in hand and to be honest I reckon the surface would end up a bit ropey if my drive is anything to go by.

If it meant using up the very last bag of crazy pave I'm in.

 

[fredfelt]

So do you think 5 billion for a wider M1 is a bit on the pricey side or do you reckon you could get it cheaper?

I reckon my mate Trev could do it cheaper but it would all be cash in hand and to be honest I reckon the surface would end up a bit ropey if my drive is anything to go by.

Could you ask your mate Trev if He'll give me a job! I know fuck all about road building but for 5 billion I'm willing to learn.

For the price of another 8 or so millenium domes it has to be worth it.

 

[stavros]

I think you're expected to be kept out of the way of the titans of industry.

Oh, and perhaps to stop needing so much of their tax

Hmm, what an inconvenience I must be, being born with a debilitating condition. Stick me in a leper colony I say.

As for the tax, I have a couple of NHS consultant appointments a year and receive free prescriptions due to the nature of the condition. If my sums serve me correctly it works out at slightly less than £5,000,000,000.

Still waiting for a reply Cobbles.....