M1 widening to cost 5 billion

[Megaton]

They could renationalise the transport system for that.

 

[fredfelt]

"I will have failed if in five years time there are not many more people using public transport and far fewer journeys by car. It's a tall order, but I urge you to hold me to it"

John Prescott on 6th June 1997

Yes, lets increase our road capacity to - er enable fewer journeys by car. Brillaint!

 

[The Black Hand]

It's worth it and, more importantly, it is a long term investment. But these days, governments don't want to think in the long term and will come up with road-widening schemes like the one mentioned.

It takes nearly 8 hours to get from London to Aberdeen. The same distance in France would only take 3 hours.

They are talking about a 'hovver train' from the North East to London, say for 10 years time, which could do the Newcastle London journey in an hour...

 

[nino_savatte]

They are talking about a 'hovver train' from the North East to London, say for 10 years time, which could do the Newcastle London journey in an hour...

I remember when it took more than 5 hours to get from N/cle to London. When they introduced faster trains in the late 80's it really made a difference. An hour would be even better.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

<massive ranting nonsense with no real point only to bang home your pc right daily mail style green credentials - snip>

Do you actually travel by train much? So long as you can be a bit flexible, there's ample cheap fares available: me and Eme travelled to East Anglia last week for £6 each. The trains were on time and comfortable.

yup every day on a commute out of liverpool street on the worset servce provider in the uk one railyaways over crowded hot uncomfortable badly maintianed and good forbid tottenham have a fucking game on... at which point your aren't allowed to use your fuckign trains as the football fans get first priorty and even the stragllers make the lives of the people who need to use the service a living hell threats abuse cajolling noise disruption pollution little missles....

so yes thanks all the same but i don't need a guardian reading wiberal telling be about the state of the transport system on their cheap awayday returns booked months in advance... try using the service evwery day at peak times, before you come off all knowledgeable about the service thanks all the same...

back to your car bashing... though as you were....

 

[fredfelt]

yup every day on a commute out of liverpool street on the worset servce provider in the uk one railyaways over crowded hot uncomfortable badly maintianed and good forbid tottenham have a fucking game on... at which point your aren't allowed to use your fuckign trains as the football fans get first priorty and even the stragllers make the lives of the people who need to use the service a living hell threats abuse cajolling noise disruption pollution little missles....

so yes thanks all the same but i don't need a guardian reading wiberal telling be about the state of the transport system on their cheap awayday returns booked months in advance... try using the service evwery day at peak times, before you come off all knowledgeable about the service thanks all the same...

back to your car bashing... though as you were....

Are you suggesting we need more investment in our public transport infrastructure so we can deal with the problems you raise Garf?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Are you suggesting we need more investment in our public transport infrastructure so we can deal with the problems you raise Garf?

we need more investment in all forms of transportation infrastrucutre much as i loath ken and how he's utterly fucked london up he has been one of the few people to put money (even if it's into the hands of private companies) back into the transportation system but this funding is by and large the only rela fundign public transport or indeed any transport has had in a long time... (ignoring the propping up of rail track...)

we have had successive goverments who under the guise of not wanting to build more roads and the refuseal to bial out private businesses (whilst selling off every transport asset they can) not fundinged or underfunded all transport to the point that third world countries now have more investment in their transport infrastructure than we do...

it's all very well saying we have to cut road traffic but the simple fact remains that for the majority of the non guardian reading public who don't have the abiltiy to book awayday super saver tickets months in adavance they look at the cost and time and same there's bugger all difference except i get to contorl the journey with one form of transport the other i am limited...

which would you choose?

comapred t the rest of europe our tranpsort infrastructure is afucking oke and to the shame of this country around the rest of the world...I shouldn't be able to get from the board of belguim to the top of holland and then back to the airport get on a plane and then land in the uk (all so far with out any rush delay or hassle all with convientin public transport all accessable for all types of passengers) and then not beable to get out of gatwick for 5 hours to go to north london cos there's a problem with the trains... ffs i have just ocver well in excess of 600 miles tryign to get the last 22 should be the killer...

 

[editor]

so yes thanks all the same but i don't need a guardian reading wiberal ...

Have you any idea how pathetically immature you sound when you start throwing around such infantile ad hominems?

Oh, and how has Ken "utterly fucked London up"?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Have you any idea how pathetically immature you sound when you start throwing around such infantile ad hominems?

Oh, and how has Ken "utterly fucked London up"?

as infantlie as constant ranting about cars like a rattle out the pram baby perhaps?

 

[editor]

as infantlie as constant ranting about cars like a rattle out the pram baby perhaps?

That doesn't even make sense, but I suppose if you're finding the debate too hard to deal with, throwing around infantile comments is the best you can offer.

Where have I "ranted about cars" in this thread please?

 

[Luther Blissett]

Nice trains Luther, wish my town had a station. It used to. The buses are expensive and don't run after 11 around here, and taxis are dear too... But many do get them from nights out in Newcastle, Sunderland or Darlo...
What this area badly needs is a workable cheap metro otherwise nobody can possibly stop using their cars... So the best idea is to extend the existing metro system (from Newcastle/Sunderland) across County Durham and open up all the old train routes that used to exist (or build new ones where not possible). As for the A1 problem which always jams up around Newcastle, I think the A19 should be extended to the East, joining up with the A1 further up, and a new A19 6 lane bridge built to the North, so non Newcastle traffic can bypass the West A1 hotspot... Dream on.

You need your branch line back, and alot of branch lines need improvement/resurrecting, esp. to rural regions - the branch lines also need better, quicker carriages with reasonable fares and better connections. One ought not to be waiting on a station for an hour to connect from a mainline to a branch-line, especially not after a day's hard graft in the city. So, WHO is the Fat Controller around here?

Also, I think the 'hover' idea is unworkable as yet, esp. with the branch lines in such disarray. We're more likely to see these: http://www.europeanrailguide.com/trains/x2000.html

 

[fredfelt]

we need more investment in all forms of transportation infrastrucutre much as i loath ken and how he's utterly fucked london up he has been one of the few people to put money (even if it's into the hands of private companies) back into the transportation system but this funding is by and large the only rela fundign public transport or indeed any transport has had in a long time... (ignoring the propping up of rail track...)

we have had successive goverments who under the guise of not wanting to build more roads and the refuseal to bial out private businesses (whilst selling off every transport asset they can) not fundinged or underfunded all transport to the point that third world countries now have more investment in their transport infrastructure than we do...

it's all very well saying we have to cut road traffic but the simple fact remains that for the majority of the non guardian reading public who don't have the abiltiy to book awayday super saver tickets months in adavance they look at the cost and time and same there's bugger all difference except i get to contorl the journey with one form of transport the other i am limited...

which would you choose?

comapred t the rest of europe our tranpsort infrastructure is afucking oke and to the shame of this country around the rest of the world...I shouldn't be able to get from the board of belguim to the top of holland and then back to the airport get on a plane and then land in the uk (all so far with out any rush delay or hassle all with convientin public transport all accessable for all types of passengers) and then not beable to get out of gatwick for 5 hours to go to north london cos there's a problem with the trains... ffs i have just ocver well in excess of 600 miles tryign to get the last 22 should be the killer...

I would choose to invest the money in ways which enable people travel (or go about their every day business and reduce the need to travel) with the minimun of emmisions of carbon, or air polution in our cities.

This cannot be achieved by expanding our road network to meet additional demand of the private motorists. The costs of owning and running a private vehicle have fallen over the last 10 years so its not suprising that vehicle ownership has increased by 1/3 over the same period.

The cost of public transport as a whole has increased so to pump more money into roads seems bizzar to me.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

The cost of public transport as a whole has increased so to pump more money into roads seems bizzar to me.

i think the question has to be asked whyt he cost of public transport has increased over this period and i can be said when all boiled down to be the cuase of one thing... privatiseation. whislt the providers turna profit each eyar this si largley as the subsidfies they have gotten each year in year out has become greater as i said ealrier if you'd like to have a debate about if you want to moan about privated tenders club and prefffered suppliers then i'd be intrested in the thread, as it is it's another thinly vailed car bashing thread...

 

[fredfelt]

i think the question has to be asked whyt he cost of public transport has increased over this period and i can be said when all boiled down to be the cuase of one thing... privatiseation. whislt the providers turna profit each eyar this si largley as the subsidfies they have gotten each year in year out has become greater as i said ealrier if you'd like to have a debate about if you want to moan about privated tenders club and prefffered suppliers then i'd be intrested in the thread, as it is it's another thinly vailed car bashing thread...

You have a lot of oppinions for a thread you are not interested in.

Personally I don't think its car bashing to question the merit of spending 23million pounds per mile of widened motorway. I'd call it questioning our transport spending priorioties.

 

[fredfelt]

i think the question has to be asked whyt he cost of public transport has increased over this period and i can be said when all boiled down to be the cuase of one thing... privatiseation. whislt the providers turna profit each eyar this si largley as the subsidfies they have gotten each year in year out has become greater as i said ealrier if you'd like to have a debate about if you want to moan about privated tenders club and prefffered suppliers then i'd be intrested in the thread, as it is it's another thinly vailed car bashing thread...

But I do take your point about privatization.

 

[TAE]

Maybe they should try working a bit harder?

Maybe they already work hard enough and should get paid a fair wage ?

Let's not go off topic on this one.

 

[TAE]

I agree we should do more to get people off the roads and into the trains.

 

[editor]

Personally I don't think its car bashing to question the merit of spending 23million pounds per mile of widened motorway. I'd call it questioning our transport spending priorioties.

Well, that's what I'd call it too, but Garf tends to get weirdly defensive when anyone starts talking about cars.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Well, that's what I'd call it too, but Garf tends to get weirdly defensive when anyone starts talking about cars.

you seem to get wierdly aggressive when anyone talks about cars... yin and yang...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You have a lot of oppinions for a thread you are not interested in.

Personally I don't think its car bashing to question the merit of spending 23million pounds per mile of widened motorway. I'd call it questioning our transport spending priorioties.

i don't see the merit in giving train companies at least 23 million a year in subsdies for them to claim a profit each year and pay off big bonuses to high ranking staff. back when i was kid i'm sure profit was defined as money made after overheads were covered not make a loss and get the tax payer to bail you out then claim a profit because you haven't spent your own money ...

and these contracts as i said will likely as not only acutally cost 1 billion (if that) it'll be the fact that they can only use mc alpine or tarmac etc to do the work as all this has been privatised which will bump up the cost...

 

[editor]

you seem to get wierdly aggressive when anyone talks about cars... yin and yang...

Where have I been "weirdly agressive" in this thread, please?

You're the only person that's been steaming in with the personal attacks, weird accusations and infantile stereotypes as far as I can see.

How has Ken "utterly fucked London up", please?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Where have I been "weirdly agressive" in this thread, please?

You're the only person that's been steaming in with the personal attacks, weird accusations and infantile stereotypes as far as I can see.

How has Ken "utterly fucked London up", please?

sorry i wasn't aware this was an editor attention seeking thread, i'm entitled to my opinion and i have given it i have no reason to justify it to you or anyone else if you don't like though shit... now then if you have furhter to say on the topic which isn't wildly sensationalist or knee jerk reactionary ... then off you go...

btw you'll find that becuase you can't understand summit don't make it a weirdly defenseive position nor does it make it aggressive... but hey... shoot first eh?? as per ...

 

[chilango]

erm you can't have it both ways; either congestion is easied by investing in road infrastrcuture or it's not.

Easy.

It's not.

In general, and I think this has been proved (though I have no link...so you'll have to take my word for it ) that building more roads etc. only eases congestion in the (very) short term, so therefore is unsustainable.

Increased supply leads to increased demand or something.

 

[editor]

sorry i wasn't aware this was an editor attention seeking thread, i'm entitled to my opinion and i have given it i have no reason to justify it to you or anyone else if you don't like though shit... now then if you have furhter to say on the topic which isn't wildly sensationalist or knee jerk reactionary ... then off you go....

If you've no idea why Ken has "fucked London up", and you can't find any examples of me being "weirdly agressive," "ranting about cars" or being a "knee jerk reactionary" in this thread, thenwhy post up this silly stuff?

With all your bizarre accusations, ridiculous stereotypes and undecipherable outbursts about "rattling out the pram babys" (WTF?!) what do you hope to get out of filling this thread with your disruptive, off topic and needlessly personal nonsense?

Seems a pretty pointless exercise to me.

 

[Cobbles]

How has Ken "utterly fucked London up", please?

1) Loads of extra (empty most of the time) bus lanes
2) re-phased traffic lights
3) Bendy Buses

1) and 2) simply create a false impression that there's "congestion", 3) creates genuine congestion.

 

[dash_two]

But you claim to live in Edinburgh so you know fuck all about London. Stick to making up bollocks on your description form for Thai-Brides-R-Us.com.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

If you've no idea why Ken has "fucked London up", and you can't find any examples of me being "weirdly agressive," "ranting about cars" or being a "knee jerk reactionary" in this thread, thenwhy post up this silly stuff?

can you please quote where that has been said. or with draw the comment, this isn't another thread where as you don't like the topic you can drag it off into obsure misquotes, half remembered or read comments or general push it off the rails by pointless demands for things of little relevance...

please contribute to the topic or not at all..

thanks awrfully...

<snip off topic persoanl attacks with nothing to say on the topic>

that'd be a no then, zip to contribute to the topic...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

1) Loads of extra (empty most of the time) bus lanes
2) re-phased traffic lights
3) Bendy Buses

1) and 2) simply create a false impression that there's "congestion", 3) creates genuine congestion.

please don't engauge with the ditors trolling it only encourages him...

 

[citydreams]

i'm entitled to my opinion and i have given it i have no reason to justify it to you or anyone else ...

er, this is a disussion forum

if you don't like it, though shit...

oh dear.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Easy.

It's not.

In general, and I think this has been proved (though I have no link...so you'll have to take my word for it ) that building more roads etc. only eases congestion in the (very) short term, so therefore is unsustainable.

Increased supply leads to increased demand or something.

yeah i know tha tlong term we can't build our way out of the problem and despite the straw man set up by the editor it's not possible to acutally tarmac over everything (though i'd love to see the editors statistics for the number of people living beside motorways who are affected... i'm not sure that bar certain a roads there are many motorways through houseing areas but again this is off topic...) but we do need investment in the road infrastructure which was stiopped whislt thatcher was in power... simply put we need to maintain what is there as well as and make it fit for purpose.

we also need to stop the obbsesion with anumber of cognestion causing things but also at the same time introduce more intelligent methods of enforcing sensible road useage (and good raod craft) in other words we need a coherant non-poltically lead transport policy....