'Lyrical terrorist' convicted

[muckypup]

i normally lurk and don't post but this worries me.

Someone had just been convicted of thought crime.

and people are being all blase about it to say the least.

Above someone mentioed the siddeque trial in scoland -- where i noticed the lawyer has been taken up on contempt for questioning the judgement.

today we had the far from radical ipcc accusing ian blair of blocking investigation into the de menezes killing.

jean charles was shot five times in the head for getting off a bus and sending a text message. A woman who symphathises with the jihadies is about to be jailed.

This is not about conspiracies. we should be concerned that there is a real attack on our civil liberties and those of us who are good (for want of a better word) people should be worried by how appeals to our better nature (we are against blowing up people ) is used to get us to defend the indefensible.

we have a problem.

I agree. This is now getting seriously disturbing

 

[DrRingDing]

This is very a very disturbing conviction. It's depressingly reminisant of McCarthyism.

How many people here have had a copy of the Anarchists Cookbook?

How many people here have revolutionary books in there librarys?

Fucking hypocracy.

 

[Dhimmi]

I suppose soon it shall be a crime in the UK to think in any language but English

About time too, all we have to do is convert those heathen seppos to it.

 

[PursuedByBears]

I have a copy of Che Guevara's Guerilla Warfare upstairs, it's a How To manual, is this illegal now? Should I burn it before the thought police come knocking?

 

[DrRingDing]

I have a copy of Che Guevara's Guerilla Warfare upstairs, it's a How To manual, is this illegal now? Should I burn it before the thought police come knocking?

I've got the very same book plus Mao's book on the very same topic. Looks like I'm heading for two life sentences!

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

She's not "locked up." She's only under house arrest until sentencing next month.

well it's not going to make much difference they have effectively ruined her life over a stupid mistake. and it's not like it's a stupid misktake like losing control of a car when tired and hittting some one it's writing adolesent poems, full of hate and nonsense. We can't surely be getting to the stage of arresting people for this charging them and ruining their lives. this criminal record is going to bugger her for life and for what....

Where to? She's British, isn't she?

that being my point... no?

Aren't all imigrants who come to this country and then put down roots also british, some wheren't born here but they are now british. under the current legisaltion though isn't the govt saying it'll deport people for this kind of thing...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

it's all getting a bit v for vendetta isn't it...

 

[_angel_]

How thick must this silly girl have been to put this stuff onto the internet?

 

[dylanredefined]

Nasty little wannabe terrorist .Not sure if she was serious or not dont really care,would anyone be claiming civil liberties were being infringed if instead of a wannbe jihady .It was a nasty little wannabe nazi ?

 

[_angel_]

I suppose soon it shall be a crime in the UK to think in any language but English, let alone in Arabic. Let alone writing and/or speaking it.

Someone should propose to close down all departments for Middle Eastern studies, as a precaution in order not to endanger the students.

salaam.

Bonkersness. This has nothing to do with language and everything to do with hate.

All the same I think she is probably more thick than dangerous.

 

[david dissadent]

I read this and think of the Wolfe Tones. An Irish republican group singing the praises of the 1922 terrorists/ freedom fighters and a host of small Nothern Irish groups of various shades of green and orange over the past thirty years singing the praises of bombers and murderers. Or for that matter the massed ranks of the Rangers and Celtic fans.

I also cant help but think of alot of Death Metal like Cannibal Corpse, web sites like Ogrish and Rotten dot com.... facination with death and tortur is endemic to youths of all cultures and alot of this is just cultural and timespecific outlet for that sort of thing. It will occasionaly get out of hand just as 'vampires' murdering vicars after listening to too much Bauhaus. But it is also possible for us to blow all this way out of proportion.

Alot of young peoples poetry may be criminal, just not really needing a custodial sentence to improve it. Imprisoning this woman is far far more likely to reinforce what she has been saying than make it go away.

I also cant help but thinking of a famous editorial in the Times about Mick Jagger, that this is pretty much breaking a butterfly on a wheel.

(apoligies for the rambling nature of this post/ posting as I think)

 

[detective-boy]

where i noticed the lawyer has been taken up on contempt for questioning the judgement.

Er, no. He has done rather more that "questioning the judgement" hasn't he? (Not least by totally misrepresenting the evidential basis of the case and, in doing so, quite clearly bringing the judicial process into disrepute).

For a lurker you learn the U75 habit of misrepresentation very quickly. Well done!

 

[detective-boy]

Aren't all imigrants who come to this country and then put down roots also british, some wheren't born here but they are now british. under the current legisaltion though isn't the govt saying it'll deport people for this kind of thing...

No.

 

[detective-boy]

All the same I think she is probably more thick than dangerous.

On that basis she probably is a terrorist then, judging by the competence of some of those who have actually had a go ...

 

[kyser_soze]

Someone had just been convicted of thought crime.

No she hasn't - she published this stuff online, in a public forum. Thought Crime is when it never leaves your head - literally the crime is the thought. She published a poem calling for all kaffars to be beheaded - racism and incitement to violence.

And do you know what I think the fundamental difference between all the anarchos and whatnot going on about their cookbook and this? None of you lot would have had the balls to strap some explosives to yourselves, walk onto a tube and press the detonator. When was the last time you heard of an anarchist suicide bomber? Or ALF suicide bomber? No - the animal libbers pick on soft targets, and anarchists walk around Notting Hill shouting slogans at rich people.

I don't think she should be sent down for this - I suspect that the whole experience might have opened her eyes to how fucking stupid she's been - but the comparisons made between this and the anarchists cookbook...nah.

How thick must this silly girl have been to put this stuff onto the internet?

Some people shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it without a responsible adult...

 

[Louloubelle]

I'm not sure what to think about this

My understanding is that lots of people have violent and even sadistic fantasies without ever actually acting on them.

In fact from a psychotherapeutic perspective, people who write about and talk about their rageful and sadistic feelings, whether in therapy or in poetry, prose or by using art, are less likely to act in a violent way than those who don't.

It is not uncommon for sexually frustrated young people especially to develop a rich fantasy world involving some quite challenging scenarios, that would probably shock those closest to them if they found out about it and I'm wondering how much this is an issue with this young woman.

After all, she says

"It's not as messy or as hard as some may think/ It's all about the flow of the wrist,"

indeed

fnar fnar

So, in conclusion, I can't 100% guarantee that this woman would never have committed a terrorist act, but I don't see how anyone can prove that the writing of these poems is anything other than a moody young adult letting off steam in a way that would impress the boys, in a situation where a more overtly sexual action would have been taboo on religious and cultural grounds.

 

[Jografer]

She isn't sitting in a prison cell, and AFAIK wasn't on remand during the trial, which presumably says something about how the courts/police/CPS view her on the 'dangerous >>> stupid' scale, if you see what I mean.

If she does get sent down, then you could see that as excessive (I would), but if she's been sent home to sweat on it for a week, & then gets a non-custodial the 'punishment' will have been her absolutely bricking it for a while...

... as far as ruining her life, let's see what the end result is before getting all dramatic, eh......

 

[muckypup]

Alot of young peoples poetry may be criminal, just not really needing a custodial sentence to improve it. Imprisoning this woman is far far more likely to reinforce what she has been saying than make it go away.

I also cant help but thinking of a famous editorial in the Times about Mick Jagger, that this is pretty much breaking a butterfly on a wheel.

well said.

 

[Louloubelle]

And do you know what I think the fundamental difference between all the anarchos and whatnot going on about their cookbook and this? None of you lot would have had the balls to strap some explosives to yourselves, walk onto a tube and press the detonator. When was the last time you heard of an anarchist suicide bomber? Or ALF suicide bomber? No - the animal libbers pick on soft targets, and anarchists walk around Notting Hill shouting slogans at rich people.

This got me thinking about that school teacher who was recently sentenced to (IMMIC) 3 years for sending out letter bombs to people he didn't know as some kind of bonkers vendetta against the DVLA

I can't find a link about him and I think I might have not remembered it right but I'll be interested to see the discrepancies between this woman's sentence and the sentence for a man who has actually sent actual bombs to people

 

[Brainaddict]

After all, she says

"It's not as messy or as hard as some may think/ It's all about the flow of the wrist,"

indeed

fnar fnar

Yeah, if you ignore the context of her being linked to so-called 'extremist groups' it does all come across as teen fantasy stuff.

But I also don't buy the parallel between this and having a copy of the anarchist cookbook. Now if the person who had anarchist cookbook-type literature also belonged to active organisations known to support acts of anarchist violence and published support for those organisations on the internet, that would be more of a direct parallel.

 

[detective-boy]

This got me thinking about that school teacher who was recently sentenced to (IMMIC) 3 years for sending out letter bombs to people he didn't know as some kind of bonkers vendetta against the DVLA

I can't find a link about him and I think I might have not remembered it right but I'll be interested to see the discrepancies between this woman's sentence and the sentence for a man who has actually sent actual bombs to people

He received an indeterminate sentence with a minimum term of five years. That means he will serve at least five years before even being considered for release and will ony be released if no longer considered a danger after that. It is the equivalent, therefore, of a fixed term sentence of at least 10 years (where you are routinely considered for release on parole, with less assessment of further danger, after half has been served).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/28/nletter128.xml

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Someone has been convicted of the crime of writing something, placed under house arrest and could be jailed. Forget Burma and Pakistan, what's taking place in this country at the moment makes me ask some very serious questions about whether democracy means anything anymore?

 

[_angel_]

Someone has been convicted of the crime of writing something, placed under house arrest and could be jailed. Forget Burma and Pakistan, what's taking place in this country at the moment makes me ask some very serious questions about whether democracy means anything anymore?

She did more than that, apart from publishing it on the internet she was part of some dodgy groups. Although I dunno if jailing someone for that is necessarily right, it'll probably stoke the fires of real terrorists further.

 

[kyser_soze]

Someone has been convicted of the crime of writing something, placed under house arrest and could be jailed. Forget Burma and Pakistan, what's taking place in this country at the moment makes me ask some very serious questions about whether democracy means anything anymore?

OK, so if I were to write 'We should behead all Muslims', publish it on the internet, and collect a large pile of information on racist groups in the UK etc you'd be happy if the police let me off would you? Indeed, using my white person writing this stuff example from post#2, you'd be having a shit fit if the OB let them off.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

You show me when the last conviction for incitement was laid for Skrewdriver lyrics on the web then? I'm not gonna link to them but it would take about 2 and half seconds to show you where they are.

 

[DrRingDing]

OK, so if I were to write 'We should behead all Muslims', publish it on the internet, and collect a large pile of information on racist groups in the UK etc you'd be happy if the police let me off would you?

Yes.

 

[david dissadent]

OK, so if I were to write 'We should behead all Muslims', publish it on the internet, and collect a large pile of information on racist groups in the UK etc you'd be happy if the police let me off would you? Indeed, using my white person writing this stuff example from post#2, you'd be having a shit fit if the OB let them off.

I would. Freedom isnt about getting what you want, but letting others get on with there lives as much as possible.

Ultimately there are nutters on all sides and we have to trust ourselves enough that the majority will hear the nuts and laugh. The single biggest reason people are cracking down this little budding "Lilly Al-quedan" is that deep down we dont trust young muslims to laugh at her loonicy as much as we trust young white Brits to laugh at extreamist eco material or racists songs.

 

[Blagsta]

No she hasn't - she published this stuff online, in a public forum. Thought Crime is when it never leaves your head - literally the crime is the thought. She published a poem calling for all kaffars to be beheaded - racism and incitement to violence.

And do you know what I think the fundamental difference between all the anarchos and whatnot going on about their cookbook and this? None of you lot would have had the balls to strap some explosives to yourselves, walk onto a tube and press the detonator. When was the last time you heard of an anarchist suicide bomber? Or ALF suicide bomber? No - the animal libbers pick on soft targets, and anarchists walk around Notting Hill shouting slogans at rich people.

I don't think she should be sent down for this - I suspect that the whole experience might have opened her eyes to how fucking stupid she's been - but the comparisons made between this and the anarchists cookbook...nah.



Some people shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it without a responsible adult...

Eh? She hasn't strapped any explosives on. What you on about?

 

[Blagsta]

Yeah, if you ignore the context of her being linked to so-called 'extremist groups' it does all come across as teen fantasy stuff.

But I also don't buy the parallel between this and having a copy of the anarchist cookbook. Now if the person who had anarchist cookbook-type literature also belonged to active organisations known to support acts of anarchist violence and published support for those organisations on the internet, that would be more of a direct parallel.

I had an ALF t-shirt and was a hunt sab, if that helps.

 

[kyser_soze]

My point was that in terms of threat and risk assessment, some little anarcho twit with the cookbook and some smash the rich posters is historically less likely to act on his own rhetoric than Muslims have demonstrated on at least 2 occassions in the UK.

Incidentally, I basically agree with the FoS stuff, and as I said several posts ago she shouldn't go down for this, but most people on here are taking individual elements of what's happened instead of looking at the whole - membership of jihadist groups AND writing racist lyrics that encourage violence AND publishing them online (under her own name too...)...

But there are still those on Urban who would fucking howl at the moon if it had been a BNP supportr with all this stuff who was subsequently let off in court over it.