Lunch in Brixton with children

[Streathamite]

I have lived here for 22 years in Central Brixton.Whilst their were always a lot of pubs it has changed.For example I lived near the old Atlantic.This was a pub on the ground floor which played music which was not heavily amplified.It was mainly a black pub-though i used it every know and again before it got out of hand.The first floor was used for meetings etc and the top floor was a flat.It closed at 11.

When it was changed into the "Dogstar" with Brixton Challenge money it became a three floor later night club with powerful sound systems.It was complaints by residents that stopped it getting an upstairs entertainments licence(Dogstar won on appeal).

This reduced the quality of life for residents who lived nearby.These people were not "yuppies" or people who had just moved into the area.

v fair point, IMHO. yes, there has to be balance, and give and take (as I've said before). Yes brixton SHOULDN'T be partycentral to the detriment of residents.
My point was however, about Henry & Jocasta coming in, and then trying to rewrite the communal rulebook for their convenience
The dogstar is - at its' worst - a first class example of the place being packaged and sold up to weekend trustafarians for their dose of 'safe' trendily edgy Brixton living

 

[hatboy]

Fair enough Gramsci. Except of course reggae - in my opinion that should be played at a legally enforceable minimum volume.

"Oi you - turn that racket up or you're nicked!" Yeah

 

[William of Walworth]

Spot on

v fair point, IMHO. yes, there has to be balance, and give and take (as I've said before). Yes brixton SHOULDN'T be partycentral to the detriment of residents.
My point was however, about Henry & Jocasta coming in, and then trying to rewrite the communal rulebook for their convenience
The dogstar is - at its' worst - a first class example of the place being packaged and sold up to weekend trustafarians for their dose of 'safe' trendily edgy Brixton living

Excellent post Jezza

 

[William of Walworth]

Fair enough Gramsci. Except of course reggae - in my opinion that should be played at a legally enforceable minimum volume.

"Oi you - turn that racket up or you're nicked!" Yeah

I'll vote for that!!!!

 

[editor]

The dogstar is - at its' worst - a first class example of the place being packaged and sold up to weekend trustafarians for their dose of 'safe' trendily edgy Brixton living

But - to be fair - it's also an excellent late night quaffing venue for Brixtonites in the week and in its latest, post-Merrit incarnation - it has got a lot more involved with local community stuff, hosting local campaign meetings for free, for example.

'Tis a bag of shite on weekends tho'.

 

[aurora green]

1)Decent public toilets with baby changing facilities.
2)A good supervised playground/creche for people shopping in Brixton.
3)A space/small park with a cafe and seats.This should be a adults with kids only space to stop drunks and dealers taking it over.

Such good and simple ideas.
Would bring such an improvement to town.
I agree also, it would be great to use Tate gardens. The loos are already there. And Editors's so right, it's just unpleasant to walk through right now, a definate no-go area for kids really, it could be lovley, right outside the library, loads of good stuff could go on.

 

[hendo]

The mystery to me is why the council and the police haven't brought their multi agency approach to bear on Tate Gardens. Councillors and officers alike must be able to see it through their windows.

 

[Ol Nick]

The mystery to me is why the council and the police haven't brought their multi agency approach to bear on Tate Gardens. Councillors and officers alike must be able to see it through their windows.

I imagine the problem is deciding what to do with the people who use the area now. Do you shoo them off or offer an alternative?

 

[hatboy]

At some point the whole of Tate Gardens and Windrush Square are due to be remodelled into one public space. Maybe send your ideas to the Town Centre office.

 

[Gramsci]

I did send my ideas in some time ago.The Town Centre Mge hired a consultant.The consultants report suggested several planning layouts for the area-not all of them needing the closure of Effra Rd.Also the Raleigh hall,after a lot of consultation,was in the report planned to be a centre reflecting the multicultural nature of Brixton.

The consultants report was largely shelved by the Town Centre Mge of the time.

IMO what is needed is not grandiose plans/projects.The Council/Town Centre Mge attitude is the usual "this will put Brixton on the map" mentality.Thanks aurora green I meant my ideas to be straightforward and simple.What people really need is good basic services before anything else.

Take the Tate Gardens.I remember when it was refurbished.It might not be an architectural gem but it was OK.Over the years its gone downhill mainly due to lack of maintenance.Every ten years or so Brixton looks run down and money is thrown at it.In between nothing is spent.It would be better to maintain land and buildings on a regular basis as this would save money in the long run.

For example in the Tate Gdns the toilets could be refurbished.Perhaps including a small shop/cafe above it(their is an example in Notting Hill) and a full time Gardener for Tate Gardens/St Matthews meeting place with his/her own hut like they have in Westminster gardens.The Gardener would have funds for new plants etc.This would make it more child friendly and safer with someone their all the time.

So instead of spending a lot of time and money on plans/consultations for some "project" just do simple things that work.

Hendos right you would think as the Council look out on it they would want to do something about it.What Im saying is this doesnt have to cost a fortune or be on a large scale.Just look after whats their already properly.

Im supposed to be a loony lefty in the councils eyes(among others)but sometimes the Council waste so much time and money when the actual answers quite simple.

As Ol Nick says their is an issue of who has the right to use the square.I dont know how to resolve that.The thread started out about children in Brixton.I cant see parents using the Tate Gdns at present.And its one of the few open spaces in Central Brixton where you can sit down.

 

[editor]

I imagine the problem is deciding what to do with the people who use the area now. Do you shoo them off or offer an alternative?

Drunks usually have a remarkable knack for finding places to hang out with fellow drinkers, so I don't think there'd be any point in offering them an Approved Drinking And Shouting Zone.

 

[lang rabbie]

As well as a lack of funds in Lambeth Council, I think that the first plans for a "pavilion" with cafe on the site of the disused toilets were partly stymied by someone who shouted "It's part of Rush Common - you can't build anything there".

IIRC correctly, someone from the heritage lobby then started rambling on about a breach of the terms of Lady Tate's will, and wanted Tate Gardens returned to its Edwardian appearance

 

[pooka]

I imagine the problem is deciding what to do with the people who use the area now. Do you shoo them off or offer an alternative?

Perhaps a wet day centre is what's needed?

Old Steine Day Centre, Brighton
The Old Steine Day Centre in Brighton was opened as a wet centre by Equinox in September
1998. Street drinking had been a problem in Brighton town centre from the early 1990s. A multi-
11
agency forum, the Alcohol Partnership for East Sussex, was established to examine alcoholrelated
issues, and the absence of a ‘wet’ facility was identified as a major gap in local service
provision. A ‘Drink Crisis Planning Group’ was convened, and a needs assessment undertaken to
identify the size and location of the street drinking population, and to audit existing service
provision. The Planning Group identified the need for a ‘low-threshold’ specialist day care
service that offered an alternative to street drinking and access to other services. The
recommended principles were that: (i) the service should not insist upon a high level of
motivation and commitment to eventual abstinence as a precondition of access; and (ii) there
should be a co-ordinated response by all relevant services to the needs of street and inadequately
housed drinkers, which took account of their reluctance to stop drinking, their chaotic lifestyles,
and their social isolation (Squires and Measor, 1999).
It took four years from the identification of a need for a wet centre in Brighton to its
establishment. Equinox agreed to manage the centre and spent more than a year in an
unsuccessful search for premises. The organisation eventually informed the Counc il that they
would have to withdraw if a building could not be provided. The Council offered a rental
building which used to be a bank and is adjacent to the Royal Pavilion gardens. This location
immediately raised concerns from local people, but the police who were represented on the
Planning Group supported the proposal. A three-year funding package was secured, comprising
money from the Single Regeneration Budget (SRB2), the National Lottery, Brighton and Hove
Council, the Department of Health Specific Grant, and the Tudor Trust. An evaluation of the
centre was carried out in 1999 by a team from the University of Brighton (Squires and Measor,
1999).

Source: Wet Day Centres in UK (Kingsfund) (slow loading pdf file)

 

[lang rabbie]

Thanks for the link Pooka. I agree this is what is needed, but as always the difficulty will be agreeing premises. Existing "dry" centres in Lambeth for homeless people with a disproportionately large number of (former) street drinkers among their clientele are not popular with their neighbours because of the frequency of "lapses" by users who are then seen in nearby open spaces.

Finding suitable premises and gaining the necessary approvals and permissions for their use as a facility for homeless people is not easy. The usual difficulties are compounded when setting up a wet centre given the generally negative public reputation of the client group, and the possibility that the centre will attract street drinkers to a new location.
The centre should be in neither a residential area nor adjacent to schools, children’s playgrounds or other sensitive facilities, nor should it be in or next to a shopping or tourist area with high pedestrian densities and many visitors. Some users will inevitably drink in the street on their way to or from the centre, and a high frequency of problematic behaviour will be noticed and brought to the attention of the police, who will be obliged to intervene. Areas should also be avoided that already have extensive provision for other social problems, such as hostels for homeless people or for ex-offenders, and that are very run down, uniformly depressing or the ‘back of beyond’. The location should be accessible, which means principally that it is in walking distance from the town centre for the great majority of the likely clients. In summary, the ideal area should be an unremarkable part of the inner city in which ‘life goes on’ but there is not a high density of residents.

Any suggestions? [And I don't think Lambeth Primary Care Trust is going to buy out the KFC.]

 

[hendo]

I don't know if the place the TGDAG should go to should be either dry or wet, but in the four years I've lived in Brixton the place has been a deficit rather than an asset. I'd dearly love for it to be sorted; partly because TG could be really excellent, as posters here have described.

The earlier posts by Gramsci and Lang R have really got me thinking. Imagine TG as a place where you could go and sit on a warm afternoon and play chess, look at flowers, meet friends away from the traffic's roar. That sort of thing does go on in some cities, why can't it go on in ours?

No matter what the difficulties may be in dealing with long term alcoholics and the weed merchants I don't see why they're allowed to dominate such an important part of our space. I think the time has come for the rest of the community's needs to take precedence. I don't think we should be distracted by arguments about gentrification here; we all of us have a right to use that space and it should be reclaimed for all of us.

Nobody actually lives round there, so nobody votes, and I think that's why nobody in office wants to bother taking responsibility. I think laws probably exist that could be enforced in that area but suspect Brixton's cops consider the place largely lost; although they sometimes park the mobile police station in that area.

I feel ashamed of the impression visitors get about Brixton from TG. I think its one of the reasons why people get the wrong, negative, impression about the place.

And I wonder if the local shopkeepers who serve the the high octane lager to the usual suspects really consider they're doing their community a service. Perhaps they think Brixton deserves to be pissed on.

 

[Streathamite]

But - to be fair - it's also an excellent late night quaffing venue for Brixtonites in the week and in its latest, post-Merrit incarnation - it has got a lot more involved with local community stuff, hosting local campaign meetings for free, for example.

'Tis a bag of shite on weekends tho'.

Merrett sold it? I didn't know! link someone, please!
and yup, agreed, weektimes I've had some top nights round there

 

[hatboy]

Old news Jezza. But if others want to explain.......