Love Music Hate Racism: yet another SWP front

[levien]

that sounds like an accusation to me - hope you have the evidence to back it up.

Admittedly I have never read "notes from the boarder land" or anything else from real life. But on here to the unconverted Larry often seems a tad paranoid and delusional.

 

[butchersapron]

Admittedly I have never read "notes from the boarder land" or anything else from real life.

 

[Pilgrim]

Admittedly I have never read "notes from the boarder land" or anything else from real life.

So it's just SWP CC-approved literature for you then?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

that sounds like an accusation to me - hope you have the evidence to back it up.

Of course I do you stupid little boy.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Admittedly I have never read "notes from the boarder land" or anything else from real life. But on here to the unconverted Larry often seems a tad paranoid and delusional.

as you're in the SWP it's rather rich calling me delusional.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

But aren't there literally thousands of academic journals out there? How would these enemies know that you had submitted work to one of them until it was actually published? Wouldn't journals have more to lose if they were shown to be indulging personal/political vendettas? Maybe you could name the journals in question?

I could spend my time jumping through hoops ever-obligingly invented by the likes of you, or I could get on with life--I choose the latter.

 

[articul8]

Of course I do you stupid little boy.

now, now - no need to get tetchy. Surely there are other journals which might agree to publish - even if what you say is correct.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Of course I do you stupid little boy.

Well now that you put it like that, I don't know how anyone could have doubted you.

 

[TeeJay]

I could spend my time jumping through hoops ever-obligingly invented by the likes of you, or I could get on with life--I choose the latter.

I'm not doubting you - just saying that if people really are doing this then they deserve to be named and shamed.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

1. Can I ask what Larry meant by owing Dave Renton "a personal favour"?

2. Has it occurred to Larry that there are reasons for faiing to publish an manuscript other than disagreement with the contents?

 

[Joe Reilly]

Apart from Cable Street Beat and Strummer doing some class war benefits I think SWP led/inspired RAR and LMHR have pretty much cleaned up the field in terms of attracting bands to play . Has the SP ever had the same pulling power or any of the other left groups?

For the record 'Love Music, Hate Fascism' was the original Cable St Beat slogan.

 

[Idris2002]

From my own experience of academia, I have to say it's not impossible that Larry could have been stitched up - especially if you're working in a small and unlit corner where everyone knows everyone else.

But proving it would be another matter.

I was at a conference in Belfast back in the mid-90s where one of the speakers hinted darkly that his (pro-republican) work hadn't been published because he didn't toe the political line.

In the Q&A sesh afterwards, someone put their hand up and said 'actually Dr. X, we didn't publish your paper because we didn't think it was good enough'.

 

[123bpm]

Just saw this and they seem to be very active and gaining influence, is it another SWP front or a genuine attempt to create a united cultural front against racism/facism?

It's not a SWP front. It's a UAF front.

123

 

[TremulousTetra]

maybe they are trying to creat a ROR mk2,

its really strange , but as the SWP decline in numbers, they seem to be getting more influential and embedded in terms of institutions, events, etc
eg ESF, UAF, STWC,

you're right. it's part of the contradiction. People will know if they have read what Isaid in another thread, that I believethere is no denying that respect OVER ALL,,, SO FAR, has had a deleterious and corrosive effect upon the SWP. but what you point to, the increase in influence, is what those who remain in the party and are still active in both party and the various United fronts as the dividends of the change in tactics of the SWP.

True to a very limited extent. The reason is the collapse of the Communist Party (which once upon a time ran the same kind of network of fronts) and the near disappearance of the Labour left. The last point is particularly important. The Labour left used to number tens of thousands of activists.

The generally lower number of activists and the absence of more significant left wing forces has allowed what are in the greater scheme of things very small revolutionary groups to attain a greater degree of prominence in some areas. The Socialist Party for instance is smaller than Militant was in the mid-1980s yet it certainly has more sway in the trade union movement now. I'd like to say that's down the correctness of our ideas and years of dedicated work, but at least as big a factor is the collapse in activist numbers more generally. Once upon a time becoming a shop steward involved real cometition! Getting onto a trade union NEC was a major accomplishment.

Twenty years ago a revolutionary socialist party the size of the SP would never have had the opportunity to have twenty something members on union NECs. CND, the Labour Left or the CP would have sewn up the equivalent of the Stop the War Coalition. The likes of the SWP would have got nowhere near the top table at an event like the ESF.

all that you say Nigel is correct, but the things that you point to happened a long time ago, whereas the increase in influence has only come about since the SWP changed its tactics.

fraternal greetings resistanceMP3

 

[sheothebudworths]

btw, scroll down a bit and you will see a gig by Chas And Dave,
Chas and dave against the Nazis, your're havin a larf!

We're going to that.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

True to a very limited extent. The reason is the collapse of the Communist Party (which once upon a time ran the same kind of network of fronts) and the near disappearance of the Labour left. The last point is particularly important. The Labour left used to number tens of thousands of activists.

The generally lower number of activists and the absence of more significant left wing forces has allowed what are in the greater scheme of things very small revolutionary groups to attain a greater degree of prominence in some areas. The Socialist Party for instance is smaller than Militant was in the mid-1980s yet it certainly has more sway in the trade union movement now. I'd like to say that's down the correctness of our ideas and years of dedicated work, but at least as big a factor is the collapse in activist numbers more generally. Once upon a time becoming a shop steward involved real cometition! Getting onto a trade union NEC was a major accomplishment.

Twenty years ago a revolutionary socialist party the size of the SP would never have had the opportunity to have twenty something members on union NECs. CND, the Labour Left or the CP would have sewn up the equivalent of the Stop the War Coalition. The likes of the SWP would have got nowhere near the top table at an event like the ESF.

I don't fully agree - the Militant had a strong influence in both the CPSA and the Bakers Union during their peak in the mid-1980s. Didn't they actually have both general secretaries (or was it president of the CPSA?) and a majority on the executives?

 

[darren redparty]

bpm wrote

It's not a SWP front. It's a UAF front.

On e of the reasons that convinced me it really was time to burn my boats with the swp was the way in which the ANL was wound up and dissolved into the uaf without even bothering to tell its members.
The anl when it was reformed was in direct competition with the labour / livingstone dominated ARA and much ink was spilt in proving that the ara were state sponsered and would always play second fiddle to the agenda of reformist politicians, and on the other side that the anl was a trot/ swp front (most notoriously so by 'red' ken in the pages of the Sun).
That after all this we were presented with the UAF launch party with the same ken livingstone and all the same trots congratulating each other as the bnp continues to win council seats
to be frank it really is all wank

,

 

[Larry O'Hara]

bpm wrote

On e of the reasons that convinced me it really was time to burn my boats with the swp was the way in which the ANL was wound up and dissolved into the uaf without even bothering to tell its members.
The anl when it was reformed was in direct competition with the labour / livingstone dominated ARA and much ink was spilt in proving that the ara were state sponsered and would always play second fiddle to the agenda of reformist politicians, and on the other side that the anl was a trot/ swp front (most notoriously so by 'red' ken in the pages of the Sun).
That after all this we were presented with the UAF launch party with the same ken livingstone and all the same trots congratulating each other as the bnp continues to win council seats
to be frank it really is all wank

,

couldn't agree more--succinctly put.

 

[treelover]

yeah, excellent post DR,

 

[BarryB]

I don't fully agree - the Militant had a strong influence in both the CPSA and the Bakers Union during their peak in the mid-1980s. Didn't they actually have both general secretaries (or was it president of the CPSA?) and a majority on the executives?

I remember that Joe Marino was General Secretary of the Bakers Union and in Militant. And certainly Militant had several influential full timers in the CPSA such as Terry Adams. IIRC this was in the late 70s but could have carried on to the mid 80s.

I think they also had the General Secretary of the Gibraltar TGWU in membership. IIRC he later became Prime Minister of Gibraltar.

BarryB

 

[BarryB]

1) Looking at his web-site, Renton seems not to be SWP anymore, perhaps related to his position as a NATFHE bureaucrat. Like a discarded dinner-jacket, it would seem the SWP is no more, gone too is 'Red Dave Renton'--he's now very much 'DK Renton'. A fake, under any name.

2) However, he is
--within Searchlight's orbit
--a charlatan on the basis of his writings, such as Fascism in Theory & Practice, that I have reviewed for Lobster, and also his anti-fascism book, which deliberately omits evidence in order to put Searchlight in a favourable light.

3) I also owe him a personal 'favour' for his role, along with Searchlight, in preventing me getting published. Shows how brave he & his friends are, that they put all their efforts into censoring me, because they can't answer my research.

Was Renton expelled from the SWP for becoming a union bureaucrat? I believe Renton was a member of the Eton Tendency of the party. Alongside Sebastian Budgen and others (?). Or perhaps im getting mixed up with Harrow.

Just saw David abour 20 minutes ago. I would have given him your best if I had read your post first.

BarryB

 

[rebel warrior]

bpm wrote

On e of the reasons that convinced me it really was time to burn my boats with the swp was the way in which the ANL was wound up and dissolved into the uaf without even bothering to tell its members.

You obviously just missed the relevant conference in which the SWPs anti-fascist work was dicussed, and the decision to be part of what became Unite agreed.

The anl when it was reformed was in direct competition with the labour / livingstone dominated ARA and much ink was spilt in proving that the ara were state sponsered and would always play second fiddle to the agenda of reformist politicians, and on the other side that the anl was a trot/ swp front (most notoriously so by 'red' ken in the pages of the Sun).
That after all this we were presented with the UAF launch party with the same ken livingstone and all the same trots congratulating each other

Yeah lets go back to the good old days where the Left slagged each other off in the Sun...

as the bnp continues to win council seats

How many have they won since UAF was formed?

 

[Pickman's model]

How many have they won since UAF was formed?

i saved the world from nazism!

honest!

and for the doubters among you, how many times has poland been invaded since i was born? i think you'll find it hasn't been!

 

[darren redparty]

rebel warrior wrote;

You obviously just missed the relevant conference in which the SWPs anti-fascist work was dicussed, and the decision to be part of what became Unite agreed.

condemned by their own words- when were the members of the ANL asked?
does rebel want to unite with other former sun columnists?
bushell perhaps?