Louis Theroux - A Place For Paedophiles

[weltweit]

I flicked over when there were ads in Secret Millionaire.

Disturbing was what I saw.

One chap deluding himself that it only happenned twice and he is not attracted to kids ..

Another on the program who had had more than 1,000 housing opportunities checked for him, all of which declined to have a former sex offender near them, nimby, but can you blame them?

 

[bemused]

The best thing about the small bit of the program I saw was the idea of putting these people in a secure hospital forever once they finish their prison sentence.

 

[cliche guevara]

The best thing about the small bit of the program I saw was the idea of putting these people in a secure hospital forever once they finish their prison sentence.

Yeah I didn't really understand that, and was upset that the program didn't delve deeper into it. How is that ever aceptable?

 

[bemused]

Yeah I didn't really understand that, and was upset that the program didn't delve deeper into it. How is that ever aceptable?

They are detained until they are better, then never seem to get better. I think you can do the same in the UK. Seems a good idea to me, some of these people can't help themselves.

 

[weltweit]

Yeah I didn't really understand that, and was upset that the program didn't delve deeper into it. How is that ever aceptable?

cliche I think you misunderstand bemused, I think bemused means it is good to lock these people for good into a secure unit. And I am not sure I disagree.

I think people can do things that disqualify them from living amongst the free. And I think child abuse could well be one of those things.

In Britain there is no debate with the locals about the housing of sex offenders IIRC their location is only known to the police.

What a different situation it seems in the USA.

 

[cliche guevara]

cliche I think you misunderstand bemused, I think bemused means it is good to lock these people for good into a secure unit. And I am not sure I disagree.

I think people can do things that disqualify them from living amongst the free. And I think child abuse could well be one of those things.

In Britain there is no debate with the locals about the housing of sex offenders IIRC their location is only known to the police.

What a different situation it seems in the USA.

Whether or not they deserve to be locked up indefinitely is not my point, what I am saying is that it is wrong for the state to imprison them for x amount of time, and then upon them completing their sentence, transfer them to another prison.

 

[8ball]

Whether or not they deserve to be locked up indefinitely is not my point, what I am saying is that it is wrong for the state to imprison them for x amount of time, and then upon them completing their sentence, transfer them to another prison.

Yes, there seems to be some confusion over whether they are ill or criminals.

 

[ivebeenhigh]

also using polygraph tests to determine anything is fundamentally flawed

 

[8ball]

also using polygraph tests to determine anything is fundamentally flawed

Indeed. Very ropey.

 

[weltweit]

Whether or not they deserve to be locked up indefinitely is not my point, what I am saying is that it is wrong for the state to imprison them for x amount of time, and then upon them completing their sentence, transfer them to another prison.

Yes, I understand your point I think.

But do you not think it also crazy to let offenders out who have the same tendencies and attractions that they had when they went in.

I guess it is about honesty in sentencing no? I would happily keep them in until they are cured and say that from the outset.

And if it cannot be proven they are cured, in they stay.

 

[weltweit]

Yes, there seems to be some confusion over whether they are ill or criminals.

Well, yes, sexual activity and age has varied considerably across cultures and time.

If Picasso were living in Britain today he would be a paedo.

eta: sorry that is not very clear.

What I mean is society cannot determine if they are ill, because in other times such acts were more normal, society can decide they are criminal but that does not lead to a cure unless they are also ill ..

Hmm,... thats not any clearer is it :-(

 

[8ball]

Well, yes, sexual activity and age has varied considerably across cultures and time.

Indeed. But I just meant, if they were diagnosed ill they should have gone to a hospital in the first place rather than prison.

 

[8ball]

Hmm,... thats not any clearer is it :-(

Dunno, I'm still confused, though.

 

[cliche guevara]

Yes, I understand your point I think.

But do you not think it also crazy to let offenders out who have the same tendencies and attractions that they had when they went in.

I guess it is about honesty in sentencing no? I would happily keep them in until they are cured and say that from the outset.

And if it cannot be proven they are cured, in they stay.

It's very difficult. Honesty in sentencing is the main point. They barely touched on the subject, but it seemed like the goal posts had been moved. Regardless of the crime, if the penal system (representing us as a society) sets a punishment, they should not change the criteria ata a later date. However reprehesible the acts are that have been committed, that is not fair. If we say that we are not happy for these people to ever be released, then we should say that at sentencing.

 

[weltweit]

Are there any women paedophiles?

And if not, why not?

 

[8ball]

Are there any women paedophiles?

And if not, why not?

There are, but it's much rarer.

 

[frogwoman]

Are there any women paedophiles?

And if not, why not?

Yes there are, 22% of people who have been abused (iirc) have been abused by women

I felt the programme should have discussed the issue in more depth - is it ethical etc?

and yes, i found the woman doctor really annoying too ..

Some fucked up people in there though, like the guy who kept saying that you can have an attraction to children you aren't aware of ...

It's an all right way of handling them though I guess, and a lot of the social workers there are clearly doing their best

 

[kalidarkone]

Indeed. But I just meant, if they were diagnosed ill they should have gone to a hospital in the first place rather than prison.

Even though they committed a crime? Its not just as simple as them being mentally ill is it? Its right they should serve time.


I was quite shocked by the guy that opted to have a physical castration, or more sad that, that was the extreme he felt he had to go to in order to ensure he did not offend again. I guess it just highlighted to me how overpowering the urge is for pedophiles.

I can not imagine having such a powerful and obsessive sexual urge that I felt I had to act on it regardless of the consequences, so I an unable to empathise.

 

[Herbert Read]

There are, but it's much rarer.

Not strictly true, there are less convicted women paedophiles and because of the patriarchal construct of society it is seen as less heinous for women to have sex with minors. As a result, not as many women are reported.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I was quite shocked by the guy that opted to have a physical castration, or more sad that, that was the extreme he felt he had to go to in order to ensure he did not offend again. I guess it just highlighted to me how overpowering the urge is for pedophiles.

...and studies show it doesn't work. It's not about the penis, it's about the mind. I read a study done in Scandanavia years ago that showed that castrated paedophiles (chemical or otherwise) still abuse children, but using objects
It is about the paedophile recognising the harm they've done, facing up to it taking responsibility for what they've done and having support when they they feel tempted or isolated. We need not to shun and isolate paedophiles or they will abuse again. Ray Wyre has done some very interesting work in this field.

 

[8ball]

Even though they committed a crime? Its not just as simple as them being mentally ill is it? Its right they should serve time.

Would you extend that to all mentally ill people who committed crimes?

There is a system whereby the ill get treatment and the 'bad' get punished.
It may well be not as simple as that in reality, but punishing people as criminals and then conveniently shifting to the 'illness' paradigm cos you can't think what do next isn't fair.

 

[London_Calling]

I dunno how the hell they reintegrate after finishing their sentences but anything that contributes to an hysteria free debate is welcome imo. Well done Louis, well done California for taking the risk and letting him in.

 

[8ball]

I dunno how the hell they reintegrate after finishing their sentences but anything that contributes to an hysteria free debate is welcome imo. Well done Louis, well done California for taking the risk and letting him in.

Well, it seems only a tiny percentage ever get out, except on legal appeals.

The place has a capacity of a little over a thousand (it was about half full when Theroux was there), and only 13 have ever got out by way of the 'treatment' programme. Nothing was said about the recidivism rate that I saw (I was in and out of the room).

 

[weltweit]

But I am not at all sure that Paedophiles are ill in any conclusive way.

I think there is probably a bell curve with some people being attracted to the young and others to the old. At the moment, society says sex with the young is bad so people who are attracted to it must be either bad or ill [1]

It seems convenient for them to be ill because this suggests a cure may be possible and suggests a way to keep them locked up longer, in search of this cure.

There have been times in our history when it has been normal to have sexual relations with people we now consider to be children. Or am I mistaken?


[1] I exclude the toddler fiddlers from this as I think they probably are ill !!

 

[8ball]

Juliet in the Shakespeare play was 12 apparently (though personally I think the text implies she was a shade under 14).

 

[frogwoman]

Problem is that a lot of them aren't ill IMO. Even with the abusers of very young children it's often more about having total power and domination over someone else and such people are very good at fiddling the system so it seems like they're remorseful ... lie detector tests etc prove nothing with these people and that's why it's a flawed system ...

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Problem is that a lot of them aren't ill IMO. Even with the abusers of very young children it's often more about having total power and domination over someone else and such people are very good at fiddling the system so it seems like they're remorseful ... lie detector tests etc prove nothing with these people and that's why it's a flawed system ...

I don't entirely disagree, but it's also worth realising that the vast majority of paedophiles were abused as children themselves (not that that's an excuse) and many delude themselves into thinking it's a consensual act.

Also, while looking for a link to Ray Wyre's work I came across his obituary. I was out of the country when he died, so I've only just found out.
He was an amazing man.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/aug/08/psychology.ukcrime?gusrc=rss&feed=science

 

[Herbert Read]

I don't entirely disagree, but it's also worth realising that the vast majority of paedophiles were abused as children themselves (not that that's an excuse) and many delude themselves into thinking it's a consensual act.

That is what really pisses me off about a "person" on here who wants them all hung drawn and quartered.

 

[frogwoman]

I don't entirely disagree, but it's also worth realising that the vast majority of paedophiles were abused as children themselves (not that that's an excuse) and many delude themselves into thinking it's a consensual act.

Also, while looking for a link to Ray Wyre's work I came across his obituary. I was out of the country when he died, so I've only just found out.
He was an amazing man.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/aug/08/psychology.ukcrime?gusrc=rss&feed=science

Oh, I am with you entirely there. I think a lot of paedophiles are genuinely remorseful and they do know that its wrong, a lot of them are probably also a bit subnormal intellectually as well.

Im not saying "hang em/kill em all!" whatever, im not that type of person, but i do think that there are sadistic offenders who enjoy inflicting pain rather than just a socially/sexually inadequate person who cant have real relationship, and im not quite sure what you can do with people who know what they are doing is wrong and don't care, or enjoy the fact they're hurting someone else

 

[mentalchik]

But I am not at all sure that Paedophiles are ill in any conclusive way.

I think there is probably a bell curve with some people being attracted to the young and others to the old. At the moment, society says sex with the young is bad so people who are attracted to it must be either bad or ill [1]

It seems convenient for them to be ill because this suggests a cure may be possible and suggests a way to keep them locked up longer, in search of this cure.

There have been times in our history when it has been normal to have sexual relations with people we now consider to be children. Or am I mistaken?


[1] I exclude the toddler fiddlers from this as I think they probably are ill !!

Whilst not disagreeing with what you say the problem is where do you draw the line then ?

and if for arguments sake it's more in the way of being a type of sexual orientation for some at least should they then be locked away for the protection of others ?