Loughborough Junction regeneration project, inc. Farm site

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by Crispy, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    A ropey contractor can botch the most basic construction details, and cut corners regardless of the nature of the design. A good contractor will look at the design properly, and if it's true that it's designed to be simple to build, will price accordingly - ie. cheaper than a complex design.

    What they might not need is a contractor with specialist experience. With simple details - they can look for a contractor who's used to doing bog standard stuff, and can do it efficiently - but that's completely different to a contractor who does low quality work. The way I interpret their words is that they are going to mess this up. It's basically the same attitude that leads to design and build contracts - get an architect to do some nice designs, then hand it over to a contractor to "value engineer" it as if that has no consequence for the design. As if the two things are separate and independent processes. If design decisions are to be made with the aim of reducing costs - then those should happen throughout the process. If that's been done in the early stages, pre tender, then like I say that cost efficiency should become apparent in the prices that are being quoted. If the prices are too high? Redo the design at this point; don't try and make the savings by employing a crap builder.
    Gramsci, bimble and Crispy like this.
  2. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    The whole document doesn't inspire much confidence, especially the risk assessment wherein lack of community involvement is classed as a low risk, when there are clearly already serious disagreements with LEMB, directly opposite.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  3. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    This project has come up at LJ Neighborhood Forum Planning meetings. There are separate meetings for this project.

    This project sadly is going the way of regeneration projects. A lot of good ideas to sell it to locals that get whittled away as the project goes on.

    Initially there were ideas that local community would be involved in the design and build of the site. Thus learning skills. At recent meeting told this wouldn't happen due to cost. Told that contractors would be encouraged to employ local people instead. With the emphasis of encourage. I did say this sounds like an aspiration now rather than cast iron agreement.

    Second issue is that this is on LEMB land. It's a KIBA site. Which means that whatever happens there has to be work related. No Pop on this site. The grant application was rushed through, due to time, without full consultation of local community. I did say at time this wasn't good. Danger that this would store up problems in future if project didn't deliver. Why I can see this was considered a risk.

    At Forum meetings LEMB ( and me) were asking questions about whether this project would in practice deliver proper training for local youth. Not just wanky course on setting up one's own business.

    I've tried to be positive about this project. The architects involved are good. But looks to me that there proposals are getting watered down as time goes on.

    I can understand LEMBs doubts/ concerns up to a point.

    The atmosphere in LJ is poisonous. LEMB have had a long running dispute with Lambeth on control of estate. Which they won. Understandably they don't trust Council.

    The Farm isn't liked by LEMB. With the best will in the world I also heard ordinary estate residents say it's not much for them. It's an LJAG project. Whilst the Farm does good things there is a gulf between LJAG and a !of of residents. On the APG LJAG have down themselves credit. The leadership of LEMB have beenn out of touch with ordinary estate residents on the APG.

    The whole situation in LJ is complicated.

    It's Lambeth Council/ LEMB / LJAG / ordinary estate residents.

    It's a mess.

    The other problem I have with LJ Works is that it looks like it's going to be food only related. As far as whatever passes for training goes. With Mission Kitchen and Tree Shepherd. Getting people to try out "foodie " ideas with being encouraged to be " entrepreneurs". Like all London needs is more eateries for the well off. LJAG appear ok with this up to a point.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
    teuchter and bimble like this.
  4. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    And Mission Kitchen. They are in practice a start up with no real business plan. Lambeth decided to give them long lease. Sounds risky to me.

    What I imagine happening is that Lambeth , as with Pop, will see this as a project now to big to fail. They will pull out all the stops to make " something" work. Even if this falls short of what was promised.
  5. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Yep. Couldn't agree more, with my recently aquired learnings about how hard it is to get anything done here with any kind of consensus, even something I had thought would be a win win type thing. :(

    The chances of this project pleasing all of the above are miniscule. And that would be true even if the particular dynamics / dysfunctions at LEMB (who will have to somehow agree to give up some sort of legal rights to the land??) were not as we know them to be.
    Gramsci likes this.
  6. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    What irritates me is that those of us involved in trying to get the APG up and running ( bimble and Anthea ( from LJAG) don't have the Council pulling out all the stops to help. It's been an uphill struggle all the way.

    The APG project contrasts with LJ Works. It's minimal risk for Council. Works done using voluntarily work and grant funding thanks to Anthea and Bumble. With a bit more support from Council it would work. Ie gaurenteeing the life of the site and letting us use the building on the site. Some in Council support it some have " long term development" plans for it. Ie building on it.

    A project compared to LJ Works that is low risk for the Council.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  7. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    Seems Barking and Dagenham have now got into urban farming and collective kitchens big time.
    Isn't this David Cameron's communalist dream coming to fruition - just as we've heard nothing from him for over a year?
  8. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    The audit trail on the report you posted a link to, is about 1 month old at most, so I suspect the repeated mentions of LEMB reacting badly are an attempt by Lambeth to provide a reason for the entire thing going tits up. especially as Lambeth are in a bit of a sulk (justifiedly or unjustifiedly) with LEMB at the moment.
  9. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

  10. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

  11. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Love Lambeth

    editor put this on LJ thread.

    Reading it and it looks like the LJ Works is going to be about food only. I'm sure that initially it was to be wider based than that.

    This is rather narrow focus. Also Somerleyton road project is supposed to have, through Brixton Green, a chef's school. Is this really what is needed in Brixton? From the Love Lambeth piece I don't see commitment to training leading to recognized qualifications.

    The twenty year lease mentioned was not what Lambeth wanted to offer. Understandably they initially wanted shorter lease. It was Mission who insisted on long lease. I'm rather afraid this ties the hands of Council (and with it local community say in LJ Works). If five years down the line and education/ training opportunities change the Council will be stuck with Mission Kitchen.
  12. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    They wanted something more general-purpose and community-focused for the "makerspace" part of the project, but the rent was far too high for that to work.
    Gramsci likes this.
  13. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

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