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LOST season 5 for those who've seen it ;)

forgot about the hanso stuff :hmm:

they way the whole story is going is that things will get explained ( hopefully ) and i wouldnt be surprised if there is a 3rd faction at work.....
 
ruffneck23 said:
so miss D , did you enjoy the first 2 eps ? any thoughts ? :)
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I enjoyed them but it was a bit of a headfuck. Nice to see lots of Hurley and not constant Jack. The time shift thing is a nice new concept. If anyone decided to start watching Lost now though, they'd be completely confused. There's so many references to previous things and so much to remember.

I always wondered what happened to some of the people at the back of the plane who joined the others (in season 1). One of them was that Australian woman who used to be in Cold Feet.

Who is Jack's girlfriend?

Kill off Jack. More Hurley please.
 
dilute micro said:
I got thoughts....


What are the chances that Ben is up to something - some bigger secret plan of his? There is no one that knows more than Ben or has as much power on the island as Ben. Ben even has power over Jacob which Ben's successor Locke doesn't have and which Ben notably didn't pass on to Locke - for instance, the ash ring around the cabin which seems to contain Jacob, and how to summon the Smoke Monster. Still, Ben takes orders from Jacob. :hmm:

In the show there is an emerging theme of need in the yin and yang where the light and dark sides need each other. It's sort of like you know your enemy is ther eand will one day defeat you but you can't do anything about it. Ben, as he said, can't kill Widmore who is seen to be Ben's opposite - the leader of the dark faction. Widmore can't kill Ben either it seems. His mercenary team was sent to capture Ben but kill everybody else. In the cycling of control of the island between light and dark - it's interesting that while one has control there seems to be a seed culture of the other still around either on the island or off. When Ben initiated the purge of Dharma Ben's new light faction didn't get rid of Dharma entirely. Sorta like with the Hatch continuing to function but not by the Others.

The thought occurred to me last night that maybe we're thinking too narrowly with this 2 sided theme in the show. In the show there is the occasional odd thing that we don't really know much about and as a result just assume is either a Widmore element (dark) or an Other (light). What if there is a rogue or defunct element? What if instead of Ben and Sayid eliminating "widmore" people they've been busy eliminating this third group. Another thing is the fake flight 815 crash that was stage by somebody - both Ben and Widmore accuse the other. We don't know who did it. Now that the Hatch is destroyed what would be the need for the "Dharma" supplies or whoever was behind them. It makes sense that it was the Hanso Foundation - who was providing the supplies for the original Dharma Initiative - that continued to support whoever was pushing the button in the Hatch even after the DI was purged because of their sincere interest in "saving humanity". (this is not spoiler btw - it was released in 2006) But that doesn't mean Hanso's company was also supplying the Others who had real brand-name food and supplies. I think the Sri Lanka Video kinda gives a boost to this idea that there might be more than just Ben and Widmore in a struggle over the island. If you haven't seen it you need to especially the end. Here -



namaste
Click to expand...


Has it ever been explained why Ben killed off the Dharma initiative? Ben's certainly done some morally grey stuff for a 'light' leader, but then I suppose he's only a good guy from the point of view of the others and the island itself, everything he does is done to protect them from the outside world, even if this is at the expense of the DI supposedly saving the world. The light and dark sides are only light and dark with respect to the island, hence the survivors have to choose between what is good for them and what is good for the island. For the people who left the island, choosing to act in their own interests hasn't worked out at all well for them and now they have to be selfless by returning to the island. To keep the dichotomy going I reckon we can expect at least one of them to join Widmore's team in some form or another, presumably Sun...

e2a: Heroes blatantly pinched the whole bad-guys-turn-out-to-be-good-guys thing, only in a far lamer 'we've seen the error of our ways' dynamic that's clearly been added on as an afterthought rather than being built into the plot from day one.
 
SpookyFrank said:
Has it ever been explained why Ben killed off the Dharma initiative? Ben's certainly done some morally grey stuff for a 'light' leader, but then I suppose he's only a good guy from the point of view of the others and the island itself, everything he does is done to protect them from the outside world, even if this is at the expense of the DI supposedly saving the world. The light and dark sides are only light and dark with respect to the island, hence the survivors have to choose between what is good for them and what is good for the island. For the people who left the island, choosing to act in their own interests hasn't worked out at all well for them and now they have to be selfless by returning to the island. To keep the dichotomy going I reckon we can expect at least one of them to join Widmore's team in some form or another, presumably Sun...

e2a: Heroes blatantly pinched the whole bad-guys-turn-out-to-be-good-guys thing, only in a far lamer 'we've seen the error of our ways' dynamic that's clearly been added on as an afterthought rather than being built into the plot from day one.
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I think that is going to be shown soon. There are things in Ben's past that haven't been explained yet like his Dharma classmate Annie - the one that gave him that wooden doll of herself when she and Ben were kids. When Annie gave him that carving she said that it was so they'd never be far from each other (she kept the boy one which represented Ben). That sorta suggested that she knew they were going to be apart - which implied she was leaving the island and was saying goodbye. I don't think we've seen her as an adult yet - that is if she is an adult. Life wasn't good for the Dharma people. They were always fighting the Hostiles. There is a hint that they were fighting other people as well. When they show an attack on the Barracks it wasn't clear to the Dharma people who was attacking them.

Yeah it looks like Sun is solidly with Widmore. She wants Ben dead but from what else we know Widmore doesn't want that. He wants Ben for some other reason - probably for what he has learned about the island. I think he's using Sun to find Ben and Sun is using Kate. So far it looks like Widmore (or corporation chiefs) is the only thing that's been portrayed as entirely evil. iirc, right?

That's a good way to look at it. However Ben was taking orders from Jacob for the most part. There seemed to be room for Ben to act on his own but they both shared an interest in hiding the island. Jacob the best I can tell is from the 18th or 19th century and doesn't like modern technology. That would help explain his motivations some. He might be a little too irrational about it and that's why Ben has to keep him penned up. Dharma may have had to too. Btw, if he was from the 19th century it works well with the Black Rock. Thing is, 19th century clothing is a hobby of mine and what he's wearing doesn't look right. - http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/9/97/3x20_Jacob_portrait.jpg The man Jacob might just be a manifestation of whatever he wants to be. There is a theory that puts a lot of the big characters as passengers (or descendants of passengers) of the Black Rock. There's good evidence Hanso's great-grandfather Magnus Hanso was on it. If that's the case then we can see a correlation with the losties of Flight 815.

So it appears we have 3 factions: 1) to hide the island. 2) to harness the island to save humanity. 3) to exploit the island for profit. The Hanso Foundation (Dharma) fits #2. Widmore fits #3 - I guess for a company that makes pregnancy tests the ability to time travel would work nice. lol :D


Okay working with the idea that Jacob is from the Black Rock. How does he become a godlike figure with supernatural powers on the island and off the island? Any thoughts?
 
i think Sun is bluffing and really wants Widmore dead due to the fact that he sent the freighter and if it wasnt for that fact Jin would be alive
 
dilute micro said:
Some things are coming together - Daniel said that he would have to "calculate a new bearing" in order to use the inflatable raft. What does that mean? - that the old safe-passage bearing shifts if the island is moved? How would he know that? He said he'd have to know where they are in time in order to calculate it. Well what good would it do if time is shifting? And if time is shifting and people appearing in the past and the future then why hasn't it always been so? Is that supposed to explain the voices? Well why not real people?
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Well according to some theories the magnetic poles have not always been in the same place on Earth. The theory says that every so many thousands of years the Earth's crust shifts meaning so does the North Pole. That means that depending on where in time they are, assuming they need to take the same route off the island, it will be a different bearing depending on where the North Pole is. Obviously the creators of Lost might have a different idea as to why they need a new bearing!

The Octagon said:
Why does Faraday think Desmond is the only one who can save them, when he seems to have the same time jumping ability (or are we meant to think he was part of the initial Dharma group and just hasn't aged like Richard?)
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I don't think Desmond ever had a "time jumping ability". I think his apparent time jumping in previous seasons will be explained by "memory implants" from conversations in the past with Daniel (or other people). As for why he's the only person who can save them - I don't think he is. Anyone outside the time shift zone could potentially be met in the past on the island - ie the Oceanic Six. They are all off the island and could all have received messages from those that remained on the island that they need to return to save them from the time shifts. That could also explain why some of the Oceanic Six know they have to get back to the island (from the look of things, Jack seems likely to have had a message from the past implanted into his memory too)
 
I watched Lost last night. It was completely mental. And after having read this thread, I feel like my head is going to explode!!!
 
CyberRose said:
I don't think Desmond ever had a "time jumping ability". I think his apparent time jumping in previous seasons will be explained by "memory implants" from conversations in the past with Daniel (or other people).
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That makes sense whilst Desmond is on the Island, but doesn't account for his 'flashes' off Island (his time with Penny, his meeting with Daniel in Oxford), that has to be a result of his own conciousness jumping between time periods.
 
The Octagon said:
That makes sense whilst Desmond is on the Island, but doesn't account for his 'flashes' off Island (his time with Penny, his meeting with Daniel in Oxford), that has to be a result of his own conciousness jumping between time periods.
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Not necessarily. "Hatch Desmond" might be a frequent character in this season, and conversations about the future he has with people might result in those flashes in the future. On the other hand, perhaps Daniel's conversation with Des in the last episode whacked Desmond out of sync with time and it is his conciousness jumping between time?
 
CyberRose said:
Well according to some theories the magnetic poles have not always been in the same place on Earth. The theory says that every so many thousands of years the Earth's crust shifts meaning so does the North Pole. That means that depending on where in time they are, assuming they need to take the same route off the island, it will be a different bearing depending on where the North Pole is. Obviously the creators of Lost might have a different idea as to why they need a new bearing!
Click to expand...

I sort of agree with the idea that the island is a world within a world. It has it's own time in its own space. Daniel's rocket experiment showed there was a 31 minute difference between real-world time and island time, with the island 31 minutes behind.

This guy has some pretty good ideas on this stuff (I call "island science") - it's @ 8:19 into his video




He points out that early in the show series Sayid tells Jack that North on the island is 7.5 degrees off from where it should be.

The math on that goes: the earth is 360 degrees round.

360/24 hours = a movement of 15 degrees per hour.

That = a movement of 7.5 degrees every 1/2 hr.

What this means is a person trying to find the island can't because the island is never where you are in time. It will be 7.5 degrees west (based on the helicopter pilot's note), or off one way or another. Okay this doesn't explain why there would be a single bearing that you could exit the island but it's a good start because the two have got to be connected.

But he didn't include this - the island isn't just 31 minutes behind. Remember when the ship's doctor got killed and was dumped overboard. His body floated to the shore 2 days (i think) before he was actually killed. That says that the island time was fluctuating back and forth.

On another message board I was trying to push my theory that the island's time was fluctuating back and forth maybe from the Hatch implosion or even from the island's last movement. It could be an oscillation while it tries to come to an equilibrium. A problem there is it would be such a radical oscillation with 31 minutes here and 2 days there. Somebody else came up with a good idea that maybe the bearing you leave or come to the island determines time. Even still there are other problems like radio waves seem to not be effected by time. When the people on the island called the ship about the doctor's body - the call wasn't interfered by any time delay. :hmm: Maybe the writers just sorta overlooked that one.

Here's something the writers have said about it -

"It's like a spacecraft entering the Earth's atmosphere. If you enter the atmosphere at too steep an angle, you'll burn up; if you enter it [at] too shallow an angle you'll bounce off and back into space. And I think that that analogy is a good one for how you have to get on or off the island."
Click to expand...

What if the island is a sphere rotating all on its own, or maybe not rotating? Remember when Desmond tried to leave the island on his boat? He said he sailed for 2 weeks and the first land he saw was the island. Juliet said something once about sailing "in circles" and Daniel said the light refracts differently there.
 
To be fair, I don't think anyone has ever said there is only one bearing off the island, only that this is the bearing whoever needs to take at that moment in time...
 
<WONDERGEEK POWER ACTIVATE>

By the end of this season people are going to start coming up with uniform theories of what's going on on Lost. All there is now are ones of bits and pieces that don't connect and barely make sense a lot of times. Everything's got to come together eventually and maybe by the end of this season there will be enough information to work with.

I don't think this is hard. It just seems hard. I think the key is to stick with the main things and distinguish them from the secondary things and so on. Not everything is of equal importance. The story has to grow out of the basics. We also have to separate important things from Easter Eggs and red herrings. So what I'm doing is putting together a chart of hierarchy based on my hunch. I have a story but I won't go into it right yet.

Just off the top of my head this is how I see it. I can explain why I have things in this order but it doesn't mean I'm right of course. The further down the list the less sure I am. At this point I've heard some of the writer's commentaries but not all of them. This is a rough draft.


Primary themes............................................
yin yang
mirror matter
fate
time travel
reincarnation
time looping
immortality
course correcting



2nd............................................................
time
the "Big Clue" - there is a huge clue in episode1/season1.
changing the numbers (4,8,15,16,23,42)
the good list & passengers 'meant to be' on the island.
children (rearing,birth,recruiting)
space portals (wormholes)
the island (powers)
the island (science)
Jacob - not the man but the godlike entity.
the Black Rock



3rd..............................................................
Desmond - seems to be connected to Jacob (backwards whispers), and he's a constant.
Richard - everything about him.
Walt - I don't think we've seen the last of him.
the sickness
the Dave thing - the initial script for the episode "Dave" gave away too much info and had to be edited.
Pierre Chang
Ms Hawking
Widmore - the Black Rock connection?
Alvar Hanso - the Black Rock connection?
Abaddon
blast door map - yet to be found Dharma sites, strange stuff.
Jacob - the man.
Miles - been to the island before?
Daniel - been to the island before?
Charlotte - been to the island before?


4th..............................................................
Annie
Ben
Aaron
Locke
Hurley - can see the cabin :confused:
Magnus Hanso - Black Rock.
DHARMA
the ancients
the hostiles
Adam and Eve?
the Flight 815 pilot - who can fly 1000 miles off course?
Claire - dead? and generally creepy, she can see the cabin.
voices
visions
Hanso Foundation
Nikki & Paulo?
Horace & Olivia Goodspeed
Vincent - never around when smoke monster is.
Smoke Monster - there a real interesting theory on this the writers have given a nod of approval (not that it's correct though).



Here's a little on the "Big Clue" that the writers have said was in the pilot. Nobody knows what it is yet. We won't know until the end of the show.

these are a few possibilities people have noticed.................................
the black cylinder near Jack's head in the very first scene.
Vincent
the white shoe
Jack's pupils are dilated
Jack blacking out
Jacob? - there's somebody that looks like Jacob helping Jack with the survivors.
Smoke Monster killing pilot for whatever reason
1000 miles off course
Gary Troup - author of Bad Twin and The Valenzetti Equation gets sucked into engine.
Walt asks "is that Vincent" when they hear the monster.
The plane is in the wrong direction.
Walt is wearing white shoes.

.
 
Help me think about Richard. If he's time traveling and not immortal then it kinda puts a stopper on my story. I have him being connected with the ancient people of the island. I think there's only been few hints that there's such a thing as immortality in the show. Mikhail died twice at least.

If Richard is time traveling then why wouldn't he know that Locke wouldn't be ready until he got older? Richard visited Locke when he was born, when he was a kid and tried to recruit him when he was a teenager.
 
dilute micro said:
If Richard is time traveling then why wouldn't he know that Locke wouldn't be ready until he got older? Richard visited Locke when he was born, when he was a kid and tried to recruit him when he was a teenager.
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I wondered about this, but he might have met Locke at some point in time and realised that Locke was going to end up leading the others but didn't know how he got to the island or how he joined the others in the first place. Maybe he was just turning up at random points in Locke's life because he didn't know what he was supposed to do to recruit him. Richard told Locke that the next time he jumped Richard wouldn't know who he was, so this would be the first time they met which could be a long time ago as Richard, apparently, doesn't age. Maybe it was after this first meeting that Richard went off to the real world to try and find the young Locke and recruit him.
 
no not on in the us until tomorrow night , it will but up to d/load about 5am thursday morning

however there are 3 sneak peaks on dark ufo's site ( in the spoiler section )
 
SpookyFrank said:
I wondered about this, but he might have met Locke at some point in time and realised that Locke was going to end up leading the others but didn't know how he got to the island or how he joined the others in the first place. Maybe he was just turning up at random points in Locke's life because he didn't know what he was supposed to do to recruit him. Richard told Locke that the next time he jumped Richard wouldn't know who he was, so this would be the first time they met which could be a long time ago as Richard, apparently, doesn't age. Maybe it was after this first meeting that Richard went off to the real world to try and find the young Locke and recruit him.
Click to expand...

Okay. Maybe he is a time traveler. We know it's happened.

When Locke was born, Richard looked happy that Locke was premature and/or that Locke's mom wasn't going to rear him. When Locke is a 5 year old kid. He asks Locke to pick the things he had "already". That was odd. Then Locke picks the ash-looking stuff and the compass without hesitation. What kid would have done that? Then he picks the knife which disqualified him. It's interesting Richard has now given him a compass. It looks like Locke was the first choice to be the Others' leader but Ben ended up the substitute. The knife disqualified Locke to be recruited by Richard but Abaddon who was recruiting Locke right before the crash wanted him to have the knife, so to speak, for the walkabout.

Remember when Daniel started crying when he saw on tv that flight 815 had crashed? He didn't know anybody on the plane or why he was crying. I wonder if Locke picked the ash and compass for the same reason.

I think the Black Rock is what's going to blow this whole thing wide open, that or the ancients. That's why I was hoping Richard to be connected with the ancients - or at least the Black Rock. There's still that Black Rock manuscript.
 
I think I'm on to something.

I haven't seen 5-03 yet btw.



Okay. I've been thinking about the whispers. We know for a fact that yin yang is part of the show, but more importantly it's strongly associated with the island. So is mirror-matter.

Some have said that maybe the whispers are the souls of people from the past that have died and are trapped on the island due to the electromagnetic mumbo-jumbo. Another guess is that they are from the same characters present in the scene, or their friends, but from a later time. I used to think so until I got to looking closely at the whispers. Other fans have noticed that the whispers aren't random nonsense. They're a conversation and a conversation in real time. Even though there are bits of the whispers that seem strange or nonsensical it's hard to deny that a conversation is going on and that some of the whisperers know the people in the scene.

The whispers are backwards. I think this is a clue. I don't know if anybody else has thought of this but I think what we're seeing here is evidence of where yin-yang meets mirror-matter. They're backwards because they're coming from the other side of the mirror. Then it hit me last night that the island's yin-yang consists of living people in the real world (yang), but also a spirit side (yin). This partly explains the symbiotic relationship going on between the Others (Ben) and Jacob. Maybe Ben is the leader of the living and Jacob the leader of the spirits. Jacob needs Ben to do the human stuff and Ben needs Jacob for whatever reason (guidance?).

The island wants an equilibrium between its living inhabitants and its spirit inhabitants. When the plane crashed it was noted by Locke how odd it was for some people to survive with only minor scratches but other passengers died. Was the island divvying up? There too is what's been noticed about the smoke monster. It seems to scan a person's soul and that determines if a person is going to be removed from the living. Maybe there is some kind of determining factor there.

What jumps out at me is the Greek-god nature of certain lines in the conversations. It sort of gives the impression that the spirits have powers to affect the living side. It sounds like Boone is talking with them even thought some of the things said are things he said while he was living. I think the part of when Juliet wished her husband would get hit by a bus might support the greek-god part. Maybe the Others can ask for support from the spirits. Maybe they did such as when Keamy's mercenaries got pwnd by the Others. The whispers were there and I believe at Juliet's husband's death too.

Check out these whisper transcripts of when Ana Lucia accidentally shoots Shannon in the woods. This is after Shannon goes looking for Walt and Sayid follows her. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Whisper_transcripts

"Relax dude"
"She likes the guy"
"She’s coming"
"I don't know if I can run, but I can (or can't) yell"
"Shannon sighs"
(Scream)
"Dying sucks"
"Hurry up"
"Shh..."

"She likes this guy"
"Dying sucks"
"Hi sis"
"Here she comes, here she comes"
"His mouth"
"She drives me crazy"
"Hurry up"
"I see eye to eye"
"I see..."

"Relax dude"
"She likes the guy"
"What do you think we should do?"
"She’s coming"
"We should hide, we should run"
"Heard some voice"
"See ya" or "Lucia"
"Hide the scope"
"Hurry up"

"Relax dude, I think she likes the guy"
"You're life"
"Ich weiß nicht" (German for 'I don't know')
"Look out"
"Ana’s the trigger"
"You're gonna kill her"
"Move on"
(Gun shot)
"See ya"
(Like a chorus singing just after the gunshot)

"Shannon"
"She likes the guy, she likes the guy"
"Shannon"
"Your life and time is up"
"Help me"
"Shannon, meet me on the other side"
"Her song" ('Ana Lucia' when reversed)
(Gun shot)

"Relax dude, she likes the guy, she likes the guy"
"Shannon"
"I know it all I know it all..."
"Dying sucks"
"Shannon"
"I don't think you should tell her when she comes"
"Obviously she likes you"
"Who's the guy?"
"I want to see Shannon"
"Eye to eye"
"Who's the guy?"
"Fire Lucia"
"The brothers that help us"
"Are you done with it?"
"Her song" ('Ana Lucia' when reversed)
(Gun shot)
"Fire"
 
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