London's bus services to be cut...

Discussion in 'transport' started by TopCat, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    17% in the next 12 months. This is from the status quo of 7.3 million journeys a day Mon to Fri.
    Badgers and Pickman's model like this.
  2. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    SEVENTEEN per cent? :eek:
    Badgers likes this.
  3. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    Just the start.
    Badgers and Pickman's model like this.
  4. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    TFL is broke it seems.
    Badgers likes this.
  5. existentialist

    existentialist Apprentice bachelor

    I have no idea, but I presume that public transport funding is being strangled in the same way that benefits, local authority funding, and the NHS is. I do wonder if the clowns in charge really do look across the pond at the US and say "Yes! We don't want all this fabulous infrastructure - let's bankrupt it and let the plutocrats run what they want for their own benefit!".

    Because the only alternative to this being stupidity of the highest order is that it's kleptocracy, pure and simple.
  6. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    They seem to be happy to take less in fares, with the freezes until 2020 and hopper fares.
    Badgers, Slo-mo and tim like this.
  7. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    you mean they seem happy to take the same amount in fares but spend less on wages.
    Badgers, bemused and 8ball like this.
  8. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh

    TFL is buggered, financially

    While tory politicians and their friends in the press say this is due to mayor khan's fares freeze, the biggest reason behind this is the decision early in 2016 to withdraw central government grant funding from TFL (ft piece from 2016 here) which was one of chancellor osborne's last acts. (I am not entirely sure whether it was announced before or after the manifesto including the fares freeze was launched.) the cynical part of me suspects that had london elected what downing street considered the correct mayor, then a new deal would have been struck.

    and mayor khan being somewhat new labour in tendencies is just meekly implementing tory cuts without putting up much of a fight.

    bus use in london has been in decline for a few years after reaching a new peak. as with most things, there isn't one simple reason.

    under mayor johnson a lot of money was put in to vanity projects rather than anything useful

    while buses going cash-free had solid arguments (security / safety of drivers, the fact that the proportion of cash fares was so low it was costing more to deal with the cash than those fares were bringing in) it will have lost spur of the minute bus journeys

    the biggest reason for the decline has been appalling slowdown of traffic in general, including buses - largely as a result of mayor johnson's schemes to give more road space to cyclists and pedestrians while not implementing much in the way of bus priority measures. the number 11 (for example) now has an end to end average speed in peak hours of less than 5 mph.

    this has made bus travel less reliable and less attractive (more journeys are now quicker to walk) and TFL's system of measuring service performance (and paying the bus operators the performance element of contract prices) being based on 'even headways' tends to work by slowing everything down further (as in 'this bus is being held at this stop to regulate the service')

    the surge in private hire vehicles has added to traffic congestion and has offered more alternative travel choices. TFL - like other councils - does not have the legal power to impose a quantity limit on the number of private hire vehicles, it can only impose 'quality' criteria for licensing.

    the theory at least behind the fares freeze and hopper fare was that they would be revenue neutral - that more passengers would be carried as a result. it's also fair to say that the hopper fare has allowed some reduction in overlapping bus services.
  9. oryx

    oryx Sitting on the bock of the day

    That's shit news especially in an area like SE London with little in the way of tube services.

    Anyone got a source for this?
    Badgers likes this.
  10. Dr. Furface

    Dr. Furface One small step for man

    They must lose thousands every week simply because of the card readers not working - last 2 buses I've got on I've travelled for free thanks to those
    Badgers and 8ball like this.
  11. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    i trust TopCat to know what he's talking about on this
    Maggot and Badgers like this.
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Badgers likes this.
  13. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    This is oft-quoted by anti-cycling papers like the Mail. Do you have any evidence it’s true? The cycle super-highways take up a bit of about 3% of London roads, so it seems unlikely.

    And the number 11 doesn’t go near any of the new cycle routes.

    11 bus route
    teuchter and BigTom like this.
  14. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh. you've clearly never been on a bus behind a trundling cycle.
    Badgers likes this.
  15. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    oh: your link doesn't have anything to say about the bus's proximity to cycle lanes/routes.
    Badgers likes this.
  16. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    On a cycle superhighway?
    Badgers likes this.
  17. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Ask a librarian to help you out.
    teuchter and Badgers like this.
  18. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    why are you fixated on cycle superhighways, which no one else has mentioned?
    Badgers likes this.
  19. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    the link you posted, the one you thought bore some value in support of the point you were making, is silent on the point you claimed it supported.

    ask an adult to help you find a website which better supports your claim.
    Badgers likes this.
  20. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

    Near me, two bus routes have already had their routes cut -- the 242 used to go from Homerton to Tottenham Court Rd but now terminates at St Paul's, the 73 from Stoke Newington to Victoria now terminates at Oxford Circus.

    Came in after they introduced the hopper fare. They're also talking about cutting another couple of bus routes -- the 277 to finish at Dalston Junction rather than Highbury Corner for example.

    I also get the impression they're running fewer buses in general -- I'm definitely having to wait a lot longer for buses than I used to.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  21. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    “largely as a result of mayor johnson's schemes to give more road space to cyclists...”

    That’ll be the cycle superhighways.

    Anyway, you’ve reminded me why I had you on ignore, so something positive has come out of this exchange. Bye.
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    the more keen-eyed among us will recall the extension of some bus lanes to accommodate cyclists such as the westbound bus lane along new oxford street. this was not, when last i checked, a cycle superhighway.

    btw the reason you had me on ignore was that you weren't able to support an argument before and so you went all brave sir robin. As you've shown here you can't tolerate dissent
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Badgers likes this.
  23. Fez909

    Fez909 toilet expert

    Nothing more infuriating than being on a bus and late and the driver decides he needs to sit at a stop. I always guessed this was the reason. Still annoying, though.
  24. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh

    there are a number of roads that have had a lane taken out to provide cycle lanes. victoria embankment for one, and while the 11 doesn't go along it, i would be very surprised if a fair proportion of traffic that previously used the embankment hasn't diverted on to fleet street - strand - whitehall which is the line of the 11.

    as the diamond geezer article already linked to shows, current policy is one of discreet cuts - reducing frequencies on several bus routes, rather than cutting entire routes.
  25. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Quite possibly there is some diversion. But again, it is 3% of London’s roads given over to CSHs.

    I am wholly in favour of reducing that motor traffic in favour of buses. I am less enamoured of the argument that it is all the fault of the cycle superhighways and pedestrians. Those modes *should* be prioritised over non-bus motor vehicles.
    Chz likes this.
  26. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat meh


    perhaps i also should have mentioned the growth in the number of delivery vehicles (mostly small / medium vans)
    Winot likes this.
  27. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    but what % is it of london's roads that buses run down? rather higher than 3% i'll be bound #liesdamnlies
    Badgers likes this.
  28. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    What I don’t understand is why they don’t incentivise using the river more. Bloody great big water highway so it is and not like it’s even near capacity. I’d definitely use the Thames Clippers more if they were included as part of the oyster zone/travel card cost instead of extra cash money. They seem to run like that in Sydney just fine. They don’t even bother running the RB6 on weekends. Load of bollocks. TFL my arse.
    A380 and wtfftw like this.
  29. wtfftw

    wtfftw Well-Known Member

    Round the oval used to have a bus lane.
  30. davesgcr

    davesgcr Reading books

    Thinning out tube train miles in the outer areas (certainly not in zones 1 and 2 , maybe 3) - ought to save about £20+ per train mile , I really don't see the point in a train about every 8 mins to Watford Met for example (maybe an extreme case , as it always has been fresh air out there), but reversing services like they used to in the past at White City / Leytonstone / Archway / Barking etc etc - rather than running absolutely everything end to end must be worth considering.

    Off peak of course ........maybe Saturdays in what used to be called "the busy service" probably needs maintaining .....

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