London to Glasgow: Plane vs Train!

[ExtraRefined]

3 hours each way maybe with, two or three fuel stops.

Cost £120 or so in petrol, and a slight risk of a speeding fine / imprisonment / dismemberment

 

[toblerone3]

3 hours each way maybe with, two or three fuel stops.

Cost £120 or so in petrol, and a slight risk of a speeding fine / imprisonment / dismemberment

Speeding is not allowed on the public roads.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

This is getting silly now, but just to finish this off and show how far we've come (or not), here's the facts and figures from 200 years ago.

It would seem direct stagecoaches linked London and Glasgow in the early 1800s, and the travelling time was 57 hours. The fare in 1812 was £10 8s- that's about 550 quid in todays money.

By the end of the stagecoach era in the 1830s they had got it down to 41 hours- which is an impressive saving, but all in vain because the first trains did it in 12.5 hours.


Sources here http://www.archive.org/stream/stagecoachmailin02harp/stagecoachmailin02harp_djvu.txt, plus the Bank of England inflation calculator and just an ickle bit of Wiki


So, ladies and gents. London to Glasgow in 2209?

200mph Hoverboards? Instant Teleportation? Or back to horses?

 

[gosub]

For those advising different routes etc, this was a set test. There is no meeting in Glasgow tomorrow. NR Chist, Dobbles, and Urban65 are not real

It was interesting to see though that the air traveller got back some 30 mins later than the train traveller. For the air traveller to have matched the train traveller getting back, it would have been £260 upwards all told, vs. sub £150 for the train.

So the test shows that you can't generalise about the train either being more expensive, or slower, when you look at a real world scenario.

2 weeks ago I had this very option....

Glasgow to London City Airport £119.00 1hr 20 minutes.
Glasgow Central to London Euston £89.00 4hrs 50 minutes.

Twas no contest for me.

Can you spot your mistake there?

No

What I think Paulo means is the start and finish points are different.

However if the end point was, say, a meeting in Canary Wharf, it would have made very little difference.

Oh thought the mistake was to cite reality in a hypothetical experiment that thought it was real

 

[cesare]

Actually, in the case of a hypothetical meeting - if it's at a predetermined time, it's quite problematic. With only 3 flights a day down, and two back up, there is lots of room for wasted time.

But if it's flexible, and it's travel to somewhere near that airport, then the flight will win by quite a margin, albeit not the cobbles-like margin fedayn is trying to suggest.

(In my test scenario, London City wasn't an option. The first flight of the day to Glasgow is lunchtime).

First flight from London City to Glasgow is 0845 arriving 1015 BA8722

 

[berniedicters]

I do realise you are not entirely serious, but just for comparison.

Google maps gives me 400 miles on the nose from Central London to Central Glasgow. It's driving time is 7 hours, which I would suggest is pretty optimistic (anyway you shouldn't be driving anywhere near that long without a break).

I suppose driving might be a option if you had a load of samples you couldn't take on the train, but you would obviously drive up the night before, leaving work early to beat the rush hour. That means budgeting 50 for a travelodge, plus more for breakfast and two evening meals, one on the way up, another on the way home (a tenner each maybe, or is that optimistic)

That's 80 quid so far

Plus it means getting to a meeting after having driven for seven hours.

I know air or train travel aren't relaxing in any conventional sense of the word (anyone remember those old BR adverts where your shoes turned into slippers on the train? ), but there's a difference between the stress of a long journey on PT and maintaining the focus you need for a seven hour drive. Ooh, and remember that you're supposed to stop for a break every two hours, so add on 20-25% for that. I used to have to go to meetings in Telford quite often, which meant a 4 hour drive there, and a (usually) longer one back. I was shattered after a day like that in a way which even getting up at stupid o'clock and training it up there never quite managed to achieve.

 

[paolo]

First flight from London City to Glasgow is 0845 arriving 1015 BA8722

Well I did wonder. It was only after the 'test' that I did a fixed search for LCY, and it showed only five journeys total for both ways, which seemed odd for aircraft positioning.

For the purpose of the test though, it would have been no matter I suspect. All the LCY-GLA shuttles were £120+ each way. (If money is no object, then the aircraft can always beat the train on this route)

 

[berniedicters]

It strikes me that, if one of our Usual anti-public transport Suspects rolls in, perhaps we could give him the same challenge - London to Glasgow, select your start and finish points, compare two forms of travel.

It'd be interesting, if only to see what kinds of choices got made for start and finish points

 

[cesare]

Well I did wonder. It was only after the 'test' that I did a fixed search for LCY, and it showed only five journeys total for both ways, which seemed odd for aircraft positioning.

For the purpose of the test though, it would have been no matter I suspect. All the LCY-GLA shuttles were £120+ each way. (If money is no object, then the aircraft can always beat the train on this route)

I think the main difference would be the travel time. Check-in's much quicker at London City, plus it's more accessible than Stansted. Also cheaper to get to and from.

 

[paolo]

I think the main difference would be the travel time. Check-in's much quicker at London City, plus it's more accessible than Stansted. Also cheaper to get to and from.

London City is indeed a joy compared with any other London airport. But it's not zero minutes. Assuming a much reduced time of 10 mins from the DLR to the gate, the overall overhead (including the Glasgow end) is 2 hours 27 minutes of additional stuff, based on official timings.

So indeed, the aircraft still wins, but by much less of a margin than one might assume - just 90 minutes, compared with the 4:31 fast trains, of which there are many more than LCY-GLA flights.

 

[paolo]

It strikes me that, if one of our Usual anti-public transport Suspects rolls in, perhaps we could give him the same challenge - London to Glasgow, select your start and finish points, compare two forms of travel.

It'd be interesting, if only to see what kinds of choices got made for start and finish points

Leaving work in Luton (attendant, short stay car park) visiting Billy the Baggage Handler in Glasgow?

 

[jusali]

Video link?
Get into office, make coffee, talk cod shit with colleagues power up PC in meeting room, turn on flat screen and videocam have meeting.
Or am I missing something?

 

[Cobbles]

Video link?
Get into office, make coffee, talk cod shit with colleagues power up PC in meeting room, turn on flat screen and videocam have meeting.
Or am I missing something?

Yes - you can't have a decent 3-bottle client lunch on a videolink.......

 

[jusali]

Yes - you can't have a decent 3-bottle client lunch on a videolink.......

Might actually get some work done aswell then
This is win-win!

 

[laptop]

London City ... Assuming ... 10 mins from the DLR to the gate

Heart-rate on encountering a queue at the X-ray machine: 130

On discovering that the gate is at the far end, half a mile from X-ray machine: 0.

Unless of course someone else is paying and is happy to book a top-price seat on the next flight and there is a next flight...

 

[paolo]

Heart-rate on encountering a queue at the X-ray machine: 130

On discovering that the gate is at the far end, half a mile from X-ray machine: 0.

It's been a long time since I've been through City. I might have been a little generous with that 10 minutes. Which would narrow the gap further.

 

[paolo]

Video link?
Get into office, make coffee, talk cod shit with colleagues power up PC in meeting room, turn on flat screen and videocam have meeting.
Or am I missing something?

No not at all. Bang on the money. I've worked in a variety of businesses and sectors over the last five years and they've all minimised business travel, substituting with telephone conferencing mostly.

 

[teuchter]

Before we go any further, it's worth stating up front that if the meeting was at, say 10am, you'd have to fly. There isn't a train early enough - and that I did, yes, invent the 11am with that in mind, just so we'd have an actual race on price and time.

You could consider the overnight train. Admittedly a great night's sleep isn't guaranteed if you are a light sleeper but at least you wouldn't have to get up until about 8, and you would have a couple of hours to use as you wished before the meeting.

The "useful time" lost is minimal, although it would add to the cost somewhat. If you're still looking for time-passing activities you could find out by how much...

 

[quimcunx]

Heart-rate on encountering a queue at the X-ray machine: 130

On discovering that the gate is at the far end, half a mile from X-ray machine: 0.

Unless of course someone else is paying and is happy to book a top-price seat on the next flight and there is a next flight...

I've done just that at City!

Also arrive at city airport 45 minutes before flight, be told you've been bumped - the flight is full*.

A risk if you are trying to shave down times in your exercise.


*actually I was, ''lucky, you've got the last seat''. Lucky? Lucky? I fuckin' paid over £200 for that and fail to see where luck should be coming into it!

 

[paolo]

I've done just that at City!

Also arrive at city airport 45 minutes before flight, be told you've been bumped - the flight is full*.

A risk if you are trying to shave down times in your exercise.


*actually I was, ''lucky, you've got the last seat''. Lucky? Lucky? I fuckin' paid over £200 for that and fail to see where luck should be coming into it!

Interesting. BA to GLA, or something else? Did this happen at check in, or had you done online check in, and got told this at the gate?

 

[paolo]

You could consider the overnight train. Admittedly a great night's sleep isn't guaranteed if you are a light sleeper but at least you wouldn't have to get up until about 8, and you would have a couple of hours to use as you wished before the meeting.

The "useful time" lost is minimal, although it would add to the cost somewhat. If you're still looking for time-passing activities you could find out by how much...

Ah yes. I should have made a side reference to that option. Unfortunately, due the transient nature of pricing, I can't revisit that option. It would however have been almost certainly quite a bit more expensive. (The business traveller, who would not of course wish to share a berth, would be travelling first class).

 

[teuchter]

Would be interesting to repeat your experiment for the same conditions say in three weeks' time, and see how the cost options stack up then.

 

[ethel]

first class sleeper is £118.50 one way irrespective of when you book. that includes a zone 1-2 pass.

 

[teuchter]

first class sleeper is £118.50 one way irrespective of when you book. that includes a zone 1-2 pass.

really? That's not bad at all is it.

 

[quimcunx]

Interesting. BA to GLA, or something else? Did this happen at check in, or had you done online check in, and got told this at the gate?

Scotairways to dundee. I used to use it when I deemed the cost difference little enough and the time saved big enough.

At check in. Airways often overbook flights don't they. I arrived at the minimum check in time, 45 mins.

 

[ethel]

really? That's not bad at all is it.

yup. you can sometimes get standard class for £19. bargain.

 

[paolo]

really? That's not bad at all is it.

Excellent value.

If only it were true.

 

[teuchter]

yup. you can sometimes get standard class for £19. bargain.

Yes, I know about the bargain berths thing - have done that to Inverness/Fort William a couple of times. (Although you have to look quite a long time in advance and it seems the availability in summer is very limited.)

I would have expected a first class walk-up sleeper fare to be a lot more than £118 though.

 

[quimcunx]

The "useful time" lost is minimal, although it would add to the cost somewhat. If you're still looking for time-passing activities you could find out by how much...

Depends on how useful you find time with your family or partner between the hours of 10pm and 5am.

 

[paolo]

Referring back to the original test, I expect that the fare would have been something in the region of the £161.50 one way that Scotrail are quoting for tonight's Cally sleeper, 1st class.

Combined with a cheaper non sleeper return, it could still be good value for a business traveller, especially if it's a crucial meeting with an early start.

Worth noting.