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London skyscraper developments

These towers have been through some of the toughest, most rigorous, most detailed planning procedures in the world. The City is one of the most difficult places in the world to build a skyscraper. These days, only towers of absolutely top-notch quality are allowed to be built in the Square Mile, and they have to satisfy an incredibly long list of criteria. These proposed towers are certainly top quality - all issues relating to transport and overcrowding, the surrounding environment, overshadowing and downdrafts, historic conservation sites, the public realm, etc. have been dealt with in the fullest and most comprehensive ways possible. In addition, measures have recently been introduced for residential towers, whereby a significant percentage of the accommodation needs to be classed as "affordable housing". Developers are required to contribute to surrounding local improvements as well.

In addition, these new skyscrapers will be incredibly green and eco-friendly. The Shard at London Bridge, for example, will use around 40% less energy than a typical office building, while the Bishopsgate Tower will be almost entirely clad in solar panels! You can't get much greener than that.

To read a typical planning report, see this example on the Corporation of London website. Some of these towers even went through public inquiries, after English Heritage tried to stop them - wasting tens of millions of pounds in the process, which could have been spent on restoring beautiful old buildings and heritage sites elsewhere. These skyscrapers will stand together around the existing Natwest Tower, at the very centre of the Square Mile, literally next door to each other, forming an extremely tight cluster. It's not like they're going to be built anywhere near St Paul's or the Tower of London. The buildings they're replacing are completely forgettable, drab, 60's concrete carbuncles. Absolutely nothing historic will be demolished or harmed in any way.

It therefore has to be said that some of the posts I'm reading in this thread are - to put it bluntly - total and utter bollocks. Really, it's quite depressing for an architecture enthusiast like myself to read them. If you can't appreciate world class architecture like the Shard of Glass, Bishopsgate Tower or the Leadenhall Building, then frankly I pity you. I can't believe somebody actually called the Gherkin an "eyesore"... that's just flagrant nonsense. It's clearly a very popular and much-admired landmark.

London isn't a "museum city" like Rome or Cairo. It's a dynamic, vibrant, cutting edge metropolis that is constantly evolving and reinventing itself. The mixture of historic and modern architecture forms the very essence of this great city. In the last few decades we've seen the BT Tower, Lloyds Building, Tower 42, the London Eye, the Gherkin, Canary Wharf, Millenium Dome, Thames Flood Barrier, Wembley Stadium, City Hall, Millenium Bridge, Hungerford Bridge, Charing Cross station, Waterloo International, improvements to Piccadilly Circus, Tate Modern, the Great Court at the British Museum, etc...

Can you imagine London without these striking modern landmarks? I can't.

These skyscrapers are just another step forwards in this evolution, and they are coming at just the right time. Firstly, they will be completed in time for the Olympics, when the eyes of the world will be focussed on London. Secondly, our financial services industry is booming at the moment. It's a major asset to the UK economy, and it's widely acknowledged that the City is beginning to overtake New York to become the #1 centre of global finance. A few links which prove this -

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/NR/r...9758-080CCE86A36C/0/BC_RS_compposition_FR.pdf
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5-2378565.html
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13129-2081283,00.html
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13129-2081045,00.html
http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/7186/print


Only last month, JP Morgan submitted a requirement for a new 1 million square foot headquarter office in the City. Several other massive requirements have also been announced recently by a variety of companies seeking office space in London.

Now, would you honestly prefer to see a hulking, fat, lowrise "groundscraper", with massive floorplates and a lack of public space, which completely dominates the street level environment and drowns out neighbouring church spires, etc...

...or would you prefer a slim, elegant, soaring tower that adds drama and verticality to the skyline, has plenty of space and permeability around its base, and a public observation deck on the top floor? I know which I'd prefer!

Please, try to accept that skyscrapers are a part of modern urban life. They don't have to be impersonal, corporate office blocks - they can also be eye-catching, inspiring landmarks... and symbols of progress. A huge city like London is easily capable of incorporating them into its urban fabric. If you read forums like SkyscraperCity.com, you'll see that London's proposed skyscrapers are amongst the most admired and talked about in the world right now.

Once again - please sign my petition.

http://www.petitiononline.com/ldntower/petition.html




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AXISPAW said:
well there are indeed plenty of reasons why the city requires these buildings, and they go as follows
1. The City is one of the (if not thee) worlds biggest financial districts and in order to stay that way it needs huge multi-national corperations to be based there.

That's the best reason I've heard not to build them.
 
Blagsta said:
That's the best reason I've heard not to build them.

so you would rather london lost its economic and financial status then? seriously, where are you people from? it cant be the uk..
 
AXISPAW said:
so you would rather london lost its economic and financial status then? seriously, where are you people from? it cant be the uk..

I'd like to see the dismantling of capitalism tbh. However failing that, I'd rather see the city more regulated and the some of the wealth spread around and not pushing up property prices and generally fucking everyone else up the arse.
 
Blagsta said:
I'd like to see the dismantling of capitalism tbh. However failing that, I'd rather see the city more regulated and the some of the wealth spread around and not pushing up property prices and generally fucking everyone else up the arse.

so when you say "fucking everyone else" who are you refering to?
 
AXISPAW said:
so when you say "fucking everyone else" who are you refering to?

People like me who are paying extortionate rents in London, rents driven up by the disproportionate wages earned in the city.
 
Blagsta said:
People like me who are paying extortionate rents in London, rents driven up by the disproportionate wages earned in the city.

well why dont you move out of the city centre or just move out of london if you hate it so much. with there being close to 10million people living there i fail to really see your point. i know london is expensive but if it were really that bad please explain the thousands who flock to live there every year and as iv said the close to 10million who already live there?
 
Blagsta said:
People like me who are paying extortionate rents in London, rents driven up by the disproportionate wages earned in the city.

Go on then... how do the £££ wages of the Dulwich or Chelsea-dwelling banker affect the prices of a houseshare in... Brixton / Finsbury Pk / Bethnal Green / wherever?

Would also be interested in your views on us all paying more tax if Gordon can no longer lay his grubby mitts on 40% of all the £££s.

Perhaps a bit less of this...

_38379717_smith150.jpg


...and a bit more of this...

0764557262.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_SL120_.jpg


...?
 
AXISPAW said:
well why dont you move out of the city centre

I don't live in the city centre.

AXISPAW said:
or just move out of london

Why should I? I was born here, I live here, I work here, my family and friends are here.

AXISPAW said:
if you hate it so much.

Where did I say I hate it?

AXISPAW said:
with there being close to 10million people living there i fail to really see your point.

You fail to see my point that thousands of people are struggling to pay rent in London? :confused:

AXISPAW said:
i know london is expensive but if it were really that bad please explain the thousands who flock to live there every year and as iv said the close to 10million who already live there?

Work.


Do you live in London btw?
 
Monkeynuts said:
Go on then... how do the £££ wages of the Dulwich or Chelsea-dwelling banker affect the prices of a houseshare in... Brixton / Finsbury Pk / Bethnal Green / wherever?

Do you really need me to explain to you how markets work?

Monkeynuts said:
Would also be interested in your views on us all paying more tax if Gordon can no longer lay his grubby mitts on 40% of all the £££s.

You think that most city workers pay all the tax they should? :eek:

How naive.
 
Monkeynuts said:
Just presenting two ends of the market.

I really would be interested in your interpretation of how markets work.

You think that city workers investing in buying up houses to let doesn't drive prices up?
 
Blagsta said:
I don't live in the city centre.



Why should I? I was born here, I live here, I work here, my family and friends are here.



Where did I say I hate it?



You fail to see my point that thousands of people are struggling to pay rent in London? :confused:



Work.


Do you live in London btw?

no i dont but i know 3 people ( who live apart) who tell me that it isnt as bad as people say it is and they can normaly live reasonably, yes they say sometimes it can be a struggle but thats just life everywhere. and they are students to top it off, not people who have full time jobs. and indeed you didnt say you hated london but thats certainly the impression i got.
 
Blagsta said:
You think that city workers investing in buying up houses to let doesn't drive prices up?

Not especially.

A) A relatively small proportion of property is owned by buy-to-let landlords.
B) Only a minority of landlords are City workers.
C) We have been talking about rents rather than selling prices. Rents have been relatively static for years now.
D) The reason for rents being static is possibly not unconnected with competition for tenants between buy-to-let landlords!

You can't really have it both ways. If you are going to argue that supply and demand causes rising selling prices then you have to entertain the idea that this may also have the effect of constraining rises in rent.
 
AXISPAW said:
and indeed you didnt say you hated london but thats certainly the impression i got.

Which shows how little you understand the place... I love London, great parties, great culture, great food (when you know where to look) etc but it gets to you as well. When you're paying £100/week (not including bills) for a 3x3m room in a damp house 30-40 minutes commute (and more money, although I suppose I should get off my lazy arse and cycle) from the centre it can get frustrating. And I live in Brixton.
 
Cid said:
Which shows how little you understand the place... I love London, great parties, great culture, great food (when you know where to look) etc but it gets to you as well. When you're paying £100/week (not including bills) for a 3x3m room in a damp house 30-40 minutes commute (and more money, although I suppose I should get off my lazy arse and cycle) from the centre it can get frustrating. And I live in Brixton.

Sounds a bit steep. Brixton is closer to the centre too is it not?

Realistically, though - what do you expect? Average wages in London are quite high so rents will naturally follow when there is a shortage of accommodation.

I can afford to be smug though as i bought a flat years ago. Funnily enough this was because it was cheaper than renting and on my low salary I couldn't afford £100/wk for a room!
 
yes to the loans, no to the large overdrafts. even with a student loan, surely that cant help them that much against full time job workers.
 
Monkeynuts said:
Sounds a bit steep. Brixton is closer to the centre too is it not?


Actually not bad for London, it's in a house with mates - nice bit of Brixton. Reason my commute takes a while is the walk to the tube (15/20 minutes), I could take the bus but that would be more lazy and more expensive.

Realistically, though - what do you expect? Average wages in London are quite high so rents will naturally follow when there is a shortage of accommodation.

An average pushed up by what do you think?

I can afford to be smug though as i bought a flat years ago. Funnily enough this was because it was cheaper than renting and on my low salary I couldn't afford £100/wk for a room!

Um... Exactly. For me or Blags to buy a flat/house in London somewhere with decent access to the centre and not rough as fuck you're talking about spending £240k and up. People living here just do not have the capacity to buy property.
 
AXISPAW said:
yes to the loans, no to the large overdrafts. even with a student loan, surely that cant help them that much against full time job workers.

Student loan in London is up to around £4.5k/annum so they must be getting their money somewhere. It's basically impossible to find accomodation for less than £70/week and that's either going to be subsidised (as in student halls) or in the arse end of nowhere.
 
AXISPAW said:
no i dont but i know 3 people ( who live apart) who tell me that it isnt as bad as people say it is and they can normaly live reasonably, yes they say sometimes it can be a struggle but thats just life everywhere. and they are students to top it off, not people who have full time jobs. and indeed you didnt say you hated london but thats certainly the impression i got.

So someone who doesn't live in London is trying to tell me what its like?

I see.
 
Cid said:
An average pushed up by what do you think?

Well, we had a big discussion before about averages, and means vs median etc. Obviously your mean is pushed up by some people who earn 2000 times what the rest of us do but the distribution of incomes and the median bear out the fact that actually most people in London get paid relatively high wages. That's not to say they are enough, because prices go up in response... but then if you increase wages, prices go up again...



Cid said:
Um... Exactly. For me or Blags to buy a flat/house in London somewhere with decent access to the centre and not rough as fuck you're talking about spending £240k and up. People living here just do not have the capacity to buy property.

Myth. My flat is worth much less than this and it takes me less time than you to get to the centre.

If you are going to turn your nose up and say this area isn't good enough for you... then in the nicest possible way, f***ing get over yourself!:D

I'm not saying it's easy but neither is it as bad as people like to make out. I've always owned somewhere and bought it when I was earning £15k a year. Things have changed since then and you get nothing for less than £150k but it's always worth looking into shared ownership etc.

Something you have to live with or move N and take a pay cut.
 
Cid said:
Which shows how little you understand the place... I love London, great parties, great culture, great food (when you know where to look) etc but it gets to you as well. When you're paying £100/week (not including bills) for a 3x3m room in a damp house 30-40 minutes commute (and more money, although I suppose I should get off my lazy arse and cycle) from the centre it can get frustrating. And I live in Brixton.

well to be honest i live in aberdeen and if you live west of city centre its high quality housing but very high taxes, but live east its poor to middle class housing but is very cheap and they both have the same travel time to the centre, isnt that the same as london? you could definetly find somewhere cheaper than that. and just out of curiosity what is your job title? because i know plenty of people here that complain about taxes but with no critisism they dont really have high paying jobs. so i assume this problem plagues all cities and isnt unique to london
 
Monkeynuts said:
Not especially.

A) A relatively small proportion of property is owned by buy-to-let landlords.

You're kidding, right?

Monkeynuts said:
B) Only a minority of landlords are City workers.

True. But a small number of people with a disproportinately large amount of money, investing in property with a view to gaining a return in the form of rent, is going to drive up prices.

Monkeynuts said:
C) We have been talking about rents rather than selling prices.

You think the two aren't connected?

Monkeynuts said:
Rents have been relatively static for years now.

Have they? People keep telling me this, yet they seem to be going up.

Monkeynuts said:
D) The reason for rents being static is possibly not unconnected with competition for tenants between buy-to-let landlords!

Its not a free market though is it? People need somewhere to live, they don't often get much choice in the matter.

Monkeynuts said:
You can't really have it both ways. If you are going to argue that supply and demand causes rising selling prices then you have to entertain the idea that this may also have the effect of constraining rises in rent.

I'm arguing that some people with disproportionately high incomes, who invest it in property, drive prices up. They want a return on that investment, which drives rents up.
 
Monkeynuts said:
Average wages in London are quite high so rents will naturally follow when there is a shortage of accommodation.

What is the median wage? I'm not on too bad a wage, all things considered, but I spend over a 1/3 of my net income on rent a month. We can't afford to buy.

Monkeynuts said:
I can afford to be smug though as i bought a flat years ago. Funnily enough this was because it was cheaper than renting and on my low salary I couldn't afford £100/wk for a room!

Yes, you can afford to be smug can't you? :rolleyes:
 
AXISPAW said:
well to be honest i live in aberdeen and if you live west of city centre its high quality housing but very high taxes, but live east its poor to middle class housing but is very cheap and they both have the same travel time to the centre, isnt that the same as london? you could definetly find somewhere cheaper than that. and just out of curiosity what is your job title? because i know plenty of people here that complain about taxes but with no critisism they dont really have high paying jobs. so i assume this problem plagues all cities and isnt unique to london

You don't actually know what you're on about do you?
 
Cid said:
If anything the skyscraper is innapropriate for the upcoming era...

Umm... what? London city (One of the most important financial centres in the world) is ONE SQUARE MILE. there is only so much space. Better to build up and be able to provide public space/resteraunts galleries as well as plazas at the base, instead of huge bulking geoundscrapers that practically force pedestrians onto the roads and totally cut off to the public.
 
newcastle guy said:
Umm... what? London city (One of the most important financial centres in the world) is ONE SQUARE MILE. there is only so much space. Better to build up and be able to provide public space/resteraunts galleries as well as plazas at the base, instead of huge bulking geoundscrapers that practically force pedestrians onto the roads and totally cut off to the public.

Why are there all these people, who aren't from London, telling us what is good for London? :confused: :confused:
 
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