London pubs closing at the rate of one almost every other day....

[DotCommunist]

Pubs smell much nicer than they used to - now they smell of beer.

As for smokers - it just shows how selfish most of them are doesn't it?

and sweat and piss and cloying, choking perfumes.

And when I leave that atmosphere, what do I encounter? the carcinogenic choking fumes of cars.

And that shit is really unavoidable

 

[editor]

I do give a fuck about personal liberties, the reasonable exercising of those.

I'd say that the right of workers and fellow drinkers not to have their health endangered by carcinogenic fumes trump any 'personal liberties' you can dream up for smokers. By a considerable margin.

No-one's stopping you smoking - you just can't endanger others while you're doing it now, that's all.

 

[Roadkill]

The smoking ban was the dromedary-crippling straw for many.

I'm sure it has tipped some pubs over the edge, but tbh I don't know many people choosing to stay at home just because they can still smoke and drink. I smoke and I still enjoy going to the pub,* as do most other people I know. It's more sociable than sitting at home drinking. I doubt the smoking ban is the main factor. What mainly stops people going to the pub is money IME - and if people have less of it to spend, they won't go out as much. And I think you're wrong about the timing: it's really only in the last year that most people have started to get worried about the economy - enough so to stop them spending. And that's happened just as beer prices have shot up.


*And yes, I was and am opposed to a blanket ban.

 

[Roadkill]

btw...

You're on a wind-up here aren't you, DotCommunist?

 

[Socket]

I've been going to pubs a lot less since the smoking ban. The price factor was an issue before but the smoking ban has had a larger effect on my pub going. I still go to pubs (they're good!) but rarely pop in on my own for a quick pint as I once did.

 

[8ball]

You're on a wind-up here aren't you, DotCommunist?

Yep - nasty DotComm and his nasty 'I told you so' ways . . .

 

[DotCommunist]

I'd say that the right of workers and fellow drinkers not to have their health endangered by carcinogenic fumes trump any 'personal liberties' you can dream up for smokers. By a considerable margin.

No-one's stopping you smoking - you just can't endanger others while you're doing it now, that's all.

a point that might have some relevance if everybody, smoker or non, worker or fellow drinker weren't constantly exposed to exhaust fumes every time they travelled any distance.

 

[PacificOcean]

I am in agreement with DotCommunist.

I am one of those who doesn't go to the pub now due to the smoking ban (or clubs now either).

Those who don't smoke don't realise the way a fag and a beer go together and I am not standing outside in the pissing rain or freezing cold when I could be at home with mates smoking to my hearts content.

So all those for the smoking ban - I hope you are happy in your sterile, empty pubs that won't be around for long.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

When I can get 6 cans for a fiver, choose my own music and chucking out time and my company, staying in and getting mates round seems much more attractive than the pub. Spending a whole evening in the pub just for the sake of it doesn't really figure in my plans at all these days. It's for special occasions or meeting more people than I'd want in my house, but not a casual place to hang out. Couldn't really care much about the smoking ban, although it did help me quit.

Yeah. I like my local and I often go there to do a bit of work with the laptop, or for quiz night, but I wouldn't go there to get drunk, not more than once or twice a month. It's just too expensive. The fact that I can't smoke inside is a little significant, but not so much, particularly now that it's getting warmer (and they have tables outside too).

All the pubs round here took a hit for a while after the ban but they all seem pretty much the same now as they were before - except that you can see just how many people seem to spend all day in them, now that a good few of them hang around outside.

Smoking ban does make me less likely to pop in for a quick pint somewhere random, though. Pubs which rely on a lot of passing trade rather than regulars or groups could well have problems.

 

[editor]

So all those for the smoking ban - I hope you are happy in your sterile, empty pubs that won't be around for long.

Right, And the notion of you moving a metre or so to the comfortable, heated, covered outside areas provided by many pubs is just toooooo much for you to bear - even for five minutes?

I'm positively delighted that when I work in pubs I no longer have to come home stinking of other people's filthy, dangerous fumes.

And the presence of smoke does nothing to make a pub more interesting, or less 'sterile' - that's down to the people in it. But if that's what you need to make a pub seem interesting, then perhaps you're better off sitting in your stinky home with your mates, while I'm off out meeting new people and having a laugh and a beer - without being forced to inhale lungfuls of shit.

 

[PacificOcean]

while I'm off out meeting new people and having a laugh and a beer - without being forced to inhale lungfuls of shit.

You live in Brixton FFS!

One of the main routes through South London. What about all the bus and car fumes? They are carsongenic too.

 

[Prince Rhyus]

Lots of reasons - one of which is disposable income. With so much of it going on rent/mortgages I really do wonder how people survive.

With so much personal debt, I wonder how long this level of consumption is going to continue for before the cows come home.

Another thing to bear in mind is the effect of migration and the changing needs and preferences of the population as it changes. For some, the pub is not the place to socialise. It might be the cafe or even a place of religious worship.

 

[Gingerman]

http://fancyapint.com/pubs/pub2301.html
This one is closing down,its where Shaun of the Dead was filmed,2 other pubs near me in New Cross are being converted into flats as well.

 

[editor]

One of the main routes through South London. What about all the bus and car fumes? They are carsongenic too.

I'm sure they are, but I don't drive a car and I don't work in an underground car park so I'm a total loss what your point is here.

Until such a time that cars start revving up into my local pub and filling the place with fumes I'm afraid your point will remain a total red herring. I've certainly never gone home smelling like an exhaust pipe.

However, if you'd like to start a thread but reducing traffic and traffic emissions, I'm sure you'll find me a hearty supporter of the concept.

http://fancyapint.com/pubs/pub2301.html
This one is closing down,its where Shaun of the Dead was filmed,2 other pubs near me in New Cross are being converted into flats as well.

From that guide:

Approaching this pub, we thought it may have shut down due to the missing pub sign and letters, flaky walls et cetera. The interior is equally shabby with a dirty carpet and furnishings that have seen finer days. It's a pure Millwall pub, with Lions programmes and England flags all around.

Doesn't look like the landlord hasn't exactly moved with the times and tried to get new custom in.

 

[DotCommunist]

]I'm sure they are, but I don't drive a car and I don't work in an underground car park so I'm a total loss what your point is here.

Until such a time that cars start revving up into my local pub and filling the place with fumes I'm afraid your point will remain a total red herring. I've certainly never gone home smelling like an exhaust pipe.[/B]

However, if you'd like to start a thread but reducing traffic and traffic emissions, I'm sure you'll find me a hearty supporter of the concept.

From that guide:
Doesn't look like the landlord hasn't exactly moved with the times and tried to get new custom in.

yeah you tried this one last go around

Since then there have been several alatming reports into the carginogenic effect of fumes on people in cities.

On a personal level, just a scant few hours in the big smoke can cause me massive black bogies.

 

[editor]

yeah you tried this one last go around

Since then there have been several alatming reports into the carginogenic effect of fumes on people in cities.

On a personal level, just a scant few hours in the big smoke can cause me massive black bogies.

Yes. And I'm all for reducing car emissions. Big time!

I'm all for less cars, more walking and more bikes I've been directly involved in campaigns promoting those very agendas.

So exactly what is your point here? I mean, you keep going on and on cars, but I fail to see what it's got to do with smoking in pubs.

 

[8ball]

So exactly what is your point here? I mean, you keep going on and on cars, but I fail to see what it's got to do with smoking in pubs.

Well, exactly.

How are these cars causing the pubs to be closing down in London.
I mean, it just doesn't make any sense.

 

[PacificOcean]

From that guide:
Doesn't look like the landlord hasn't exactly moved with the times and tried to get new custom in.

I thought you were a hardy supporter of the old grimey boozer and hated the new breed of pubs like Weatherspoons?

 

[PacificOcean]

Well, exactly.

How are these cars causing the pubs to be closing down in London.
I mean, it just doesn't make any sense.

You breath in smoke in pubs - you may die.

You walk in the street with millions of cars pumping out fumes - you may die.

You eat E numbers - you may die.

You exercise too much - you may die.

You get knocked over by a bus crossing the road - you may die.

You get to old age - you may die.

And so on.

 

[editor]

I thought you were a hardy supporter of the old grimey boozer and hated the new breed of pubs like Weatherspoons?

If you're suggesting that I've said that I like filthy pubs with shabby furnishings, shit food and Millwall flags flapping outside you're very much mistaken.

 

[8ball]

You breath in smoke in pubs - you may die.

You walk in the street with millions of cars pumping out fumes - you may die.

You eat E numbers - you may die.

You exercise too much - you may die.

You get knocked over by a bus crossing the road - you may die.

You get to old age - you may die.

And so on.

Actually, you could just have ended each of these sentences with: you will die.

 

[DotCommunist]

Yes. And I'm all for reducing car emissions. Big time!

I'm all for less cars, more walking and more bikes I've been directly involved in campaigns promoting those very agendas.

So exactly what is your point here? I mean, you keep going on and on cars, but I fail to see what it's got to do with smoking in pubs.

Smoking was banned because of its adverse effect on non-smokers. Who then leave the pub and get a nice lungful of exhaust. Commuters probably face even more car fumeage.

The point is, love it as you might the justifications for a no compromise ban are invalidated by the near-equal carcinogen exposure that is part of city life.

You loved the fuck out of the ban because it chimed with your personal preferences. You defended it on grounds that look increasingly shaky, given just how much smoke any city-sweller sucks up be s/he smoker pub goer or otherwise.

It wasn't instituted to give you something to crow about. It wasn't done to piss me off. It wasn't done to hurt evil tobacco companies either. It was done as part of the puritan kickback we're getting off of those colonial bastards.

 

[skyscraper101]

Um...every time I venture out to the bars and pubs on in London there are hoards of people in them, and around shepherds bush there are bouncers doing a 'one out, one in' door policy.

Where are these empty pubs? I want to know because I'm sick of going out for a sociable pint at the weekend and not only being forced to stand because there's no seating left but having to shout over the noise of everyone.

Also, seeing as we've had all this malarkey over the 24 hour licensing laws - how about actually opening more bars beyond 11pm? I'm sick of being in pubs that are half full at 11pm and then being made to rush my pint and leave because the pub hasn't got a later license. If they did, then all those people who want to carry on drinking for another hour would be able to - and the pubs would get more money. Duh!

Dare I say it, but we may even start to curb the nation's unhealthy obsession with rushed pint drinking if that were the case too. Just a thought like.

 

[bluestreak]

I can't believe some people really stopped going to pubs because they can't pop outside for a smoke. Maybe I just like pubs too much.

 

[PacificOcean]

I can't believe some people really stopped going to pubs because they can't pop outside for a smoke. Maybe I just like pubs too much.

If you are not a smoker you really don't understand the enjoyment of having a fag at the same time as your pint.

There was a study that I have no idea how to link to, but remember reading that alcohol and fags effect the same part of the brain.

 

[8ball]

It's so confusing.

Not enough pubs, pubs closing, pubs too full, pubs that can't be arsed to stay open late, pubs abandoned by disgruntled smokers . . .

 

[Guineveretoo]

You've made your point, DC, repeatedly.

Can we get back to bemoaning the loss of pubs now?



There is a real ale pub in Camberwell, which I have mentioned on here before, which only re-opened relatively recently, and completely failed to catch the market (does that phrase exist? I know what I mean), and I think it is going to close any day, causing the landlord to lose his life savings, which he pumped into it. Nothing to do with the smoking ban, frankly, but to do with the fact that the "pub culture" in this country is changing, and it seems you can only survive if you run a gastropub or a music/comedy pub, whereas Jamie Hooper, who put all his money into what is now called Hoopers Bar, tried to set up a CAMRA pub, with the focus on the beer. He told us, when he set it up, that he was going to renovate the kitchen and do food, but only after he had established the business, and he has failed to do that, so far!

Unfortunately, his plans for a micro brewery have clearly been put on hold, and the couple he brought in to help him, who were brewers by trade, have moved on, leaving one grumpy and bored bar man plus the landlord. However, if anyone lives near East Dulwich station (but pub claims to be in East Dulwich, based on that, but it is actually in Camberwell), and you want to save a real ale pub from certain demise - get yourselves down there!

In fact, it's a fantastic place for an Urban75 Do of some kind or another. Perhaps I could renovate the idea of an U75 quiz night, which was mooted a while back. They might even be into hosting other stuff.

Anyway, this is turning into an essay, so I am moving on.....

 

[bluestreak]

If you are not a smoker you really don't understand the enjoyment of having a fag at the same time as your pint.

There was a study that I have no idea how to link to, but remember reading that alcohol and fags effect the same part of the brain.

I am a smoker, I know all about it. But, yet, somehow, despite having smoked since the age of 14, I can cope. I was in a pub earlier in fact. It was very nice.

 

[8ball]

Anyway, this is turning into an essay, so I am moving on.....

More of a sales pitch, really.

 

[Guineveretoo]

More of a sales pitch, really.

Yeah, it was, wasn't it? I wonder why?

I don't even live in Camberwell!