Lock terror suspects up indefinitely, say police

[Paulie Tandoori]

Not 'equally'.

It's a given that politicians are scum.

I wouldn't weep if any one of the fuckers stopped a bullet, on principle.

But... George Bush is a cunt therefore it's ok to murder Mr Smith on the No. 19 bus?


Fucking crap.

I'd fuckig lock you up ya Donny Tourette's loony

 

[chainsaw cat]

Depends what you call 'on purpose'. The blair government started an unnecessary war, supported the bombing of urban areas, and thus has kids' blood on their hands.

This has been gone over time and again.

Deliberate murder is not the same as criminal negligence/dull blind indifference/incompetence.

Twat in a jet drops bomb on wrong building - very bad.

Twat in a train blows up everyone around him - very bad.

Not morally the same thing.

I'd assume from your spelling ability that your IQ was high enough to spot that.

 

[fela fan]

Not 'equally'.

It's a given that politicians are scum.

I wouldn't weep if any one of the fuckers stopped a bullet, on principle.

But... George Bush is a cunt therefore it's ok to murder Mr Smith on the No. 19 bus?


Fucking crap.

No no mate, you're just posting up emotional responses. I've not excused any behaviour here. I'm looking at the causes of all these actions. Trying to find the beginning, coz if you want to stop it all, you need to look for the seeds of all this carnage.

What is fucking crap is just reacting constantly to the latest terrorist incident, or more likely, terrorist threat. Ironically it was down to blair who recognised how to make the ira history, yet here he is (was) creating and perpetuating conditions that have led britain into becoming, once again, the target of terrorism.

Emotional reactions will solve nothing.

 

[chainsaw cat]

No no mate, you're just posting up emotional responses. I've not excused any behaviour here. I'm looking at the causes of all these actions. Trying to find the beginning, coz if you want to stop it all, you need to look for the seeds of all this carnage.

What is fucking crap is just reacting constantly to the latest terrorist incident, or more likely, terrorist threat. Ironically it was down to blair who recognised how to make the ira history, yet here he is (was) creating and perpetuating conditions that have led britain into becoming, once again, the target of terrorism.

Emotional reactions will solve nothing.

Everything you say is true.

Except... I'm not being emotional.
There are 2 seperate things here.

1. The causes of the terorrism
2. The terrorism.

IMO, 1. is partly 'our' fault
2. is a psychotic response with no moral justification at all, done by loonies.

 

[chainsaw cat]

I'd fuckig lock you up ya Donny Tourette's loony

Eh?

 

[fela fan]

Everything you say is true.

Except... I'm not being emotional.
There are 2 seperate things here.

1. The causes of the terorrism
2. The terrorism.

IMO, 1. is partly 'our' fault
2. is a psychotic response with no moral justification at all, done by loonies.

Sorry about that!

It's true the two things you separate them into. I often assume that in britain no one much bothers with the number 1, certainly not in the media, or by politicians, or by policemen, or any other vested interest.

But to solve the problem of number 2, then number 1 must be addressed. That is of course what blair did regarding 'the troubles'.

As for number 2, i can never ever agree with the actions of, what i refer them to, people terrorists (as opposed to state terrorism). But i can understand sometimes why people revert to terrorism. At least, the old style terrorism.

I think it was william blum who said that terrorism was action carried out against ordinary citizens in order to punish the leaders of their country for their own state terrorist actions.

What we can see is that the state carries out actions that murder innocent people, and then a reaction occurs where people then take revenge against further innocent people.

For me the true global answer will only come when all peoples across the world realise that they should forge solidarity with one another against the common 'enemy', that is all the leaders of the world.

In today's climate, and i say this simplistically to make my point, that means ordinary muslims in their countries coming together with ordinary christians in their countries and both rising up against their leaders.

Pie in the sky? Dunno, but there ain't any other answer any more.

 

[TAE]

Deliberate murder is not the same as criminal negligence/dull blind indifference/incompetence.

No, it's not. Nevertheless, Blair & co took a course of action which they knew would get kids killed.

I'd assume from your spelling ability that your IQ was high enough to spot that.

Thank you.

 

[detective-boy]

What is fucking crap is just reacting constantly to the latest terrorist incident, or more likely, terrorist threat.

Yeah. Cos not reacting, that'd be a far better idea ...

 

[detective-boy]

What we can see is that the state carries out actions that murder innocent people, and then a reaction occurs where people then take revenge against further innocent people.

So why are you in constant denial that there is a genuine "people terrorism" threat?

Surely if there is not, that undermines your argument that what is happening in Iraq is "State terrorism"?

 

[chainsaw cat]

Sorry about that!

It's true the two things you ...................
..............For me the true global answer will only come when all peoples across the world realise that they should forge solidarity with one another against the common 'enemy', that is all the leaders of the world.

In today's climate, and i say this simplistically to make my point, that means ordinary muslims in their countries coming together with ordinary christians in their countries and both rising up against their leaders.

Pie in the sky? Dunno, but there ain't any other answer any more.

Good analysis.

And, while we're dreaming, can I have a Lamboughini Diabalo and a villa in Hawaii, please?

 

[fela fan]

Yeah. Cos not reacting, that'd be a far better idea ...

I thought my point was clear, but just to make it clearer. There just seems to be only reaction to incidents of terrorism or threats of it. There seems to be no attempt to find the root causes for why britain went from not being a target to becoming a target, the change occurring subsequent to 911 in new york.

I'm pointing out that if you want this terrorism to go away then we need a bit more wisdom and statesmanship to guide us. I could even say like what blair did over the troubles which he managed to solve politically.

All i see is an apparent unwillingness to actually solve the problem. Instead all we get is what i term the insanity of more and more restrictions on the freedom of the general public. From my viewpoint, and it must be different since i'm not in the country, the country is going about this terrorist threat completely the wrong way.

The fact i believe this is no accident is another point. But as ever, due to the actions of those in leadership positions, the people face both possible death and removal of freedoms they previously had.

A double lose situation. Do you like it that way?

 

[fela fan]

So why are you in constant denial that there is a genuine "people terrorism" threat?

Surely if there is not, that undermines your argument that what is happening in Iraq is "State terrorism"?

Don't quite understand what you're saying here.

I'm in no kind of denial about people terrorism. I know and can see it's happening. How can i deny bombs that off on the tube??!!

And as for iraq, it's not really an argument at all, it is just simply a fact. Our state is in their state and is killing locals and ripping up infrastructure, in support of the US who have been doing both on a massive scale. It was never a 'war' as ridiculously pretended by the media and politicians, it has only ever been state terrorism.

When the american and british people realise that their leaders are engaging in state terrorism, not 'war', then they will reign in their criminal murdering leaders, and the peoples in the unfortunate countries that the US choose to go on their murderous rampages for this or that reason will become safe again.

And guess what, it just might follow that the threat britain faces from people terrorists will then disappear. So, it's up to the people. As always.

It's really too fucking easy man.

 

[fela fan]

Good analysis.

And, while we're dreaming, can I have a Lamboughini Diabalo and a villa in Hawaii, please?

That's a pretty good choice. For me, i just require an immediate cessation of the need to work any more. Money would therefore be no object, and since i've often heard about the quality of the grass over there, i'd be expecting you to pick me up at the airport in that car of yours with a big fat spliff waiting for me to toast world peace that has broken out...



[what kind of spellcheck does urban use, telling me spliff is wrongly spelt. What's the world coming to?]

 

[TAE]

I thought my point was clear

It was.

 

[nino_savatte]

And not just cultural.

I've been watching all this from the outside, and therefore have a different view to most britons (not yourself nino!). In a nutshell since 911 it just seems that those who have a public voice, primarily coppers and politicians, and also some supine media commentators, play this terror card. And increasingly so.

And it is so way out of proportion with actual events.

But of course, keep the general population under fear, and they find it much harder to arrive at the independent thinking required to realise that the country faces these terrorist incidents because of our foreign policy. In other words, those in power are making sure we don't put the blame where it lies.

Sure. Whenever anyone mentions the PIRA's bombings in the 70's and 80's, the authoritarian lobby always replies with "well, we're facing a different threat". When you press them on this, they will always claim it's because bombers are more likely to be "suicide bombers". If you say that this is irrelevant and a bomb is a bomb is a bomb, regardless of whether it is left in a bin or someone straps one to themselves, the result is always going to be the same. They will launch into some culturally relativist rant and label you a "sympathiser".

What the security services really want is to arrest people before they commit any attacks. In other words, they want internment or some other form of civil rights busting legislation to further limit our already limited freedoms. The other option is thought-crime.

 

[fela fan]

It was.

Ta!

 

[fela fan]

Sure. Whenever anyone mentions the PIRA's bombings in the 70's and 80's, the authoritarian lobby always replies with "well, we're facing a different threat". When you press them on this, they will always claim it's because bombers are more likely to be "suicide bombers". If you say that this is irrelevant and a bomb is a bomb is a bomb, regardless of whether it is left in a bin or someone straps one to themselves, the result is always going to be the same. They will launch into some culturally relativist rant and label you a "sympathiser".

This is the truly amazing thing. An analysis of why and how people do such a good job in self-deluding themselves may go a long way to finding out how we can get the peoples to tackle their criminal leaders and bring them to book. Because essentially the propaganda that many people have internalised has brought down the blinkers on their reasoning faculties. It amazes me how easy people find it to kid themselves.

This is why i always say that answers to political problems (ie illegal wars, spreading fear) lie outside of politics.

The best man for providing the right framework is one mr eric fromm, who has expertly analysed the innate conditions of humans and what makes them tick. Understanding is of course always the first step.

Incidentally, i heard that many in britain are nowadays arguing against human rights, precisely because of this 'terror threat' age. I just shook my head at the unbelievableness of it all!!! The man i just mentioned had one book called escape from freedom, which to me said it all. I am now watching my compatriots rushing headlong as far away as possible from freedom. It seems it's just not what's wanted!!

 

[fela fan]

And i think that's partly, or majorly, the case because of this obsession in western countries with safety and security in life. They have come to associate security with freedom.

And that is just nuts.

We're in the middle of a movie of madness. Either yer in it, or yer watching it...

 

[nino_savatte]

Incidentally, i heard that many in britain are nowadays arguing against human rights, precisely because of this 'terror threat' age. I just shook my head at the unbelievableness of it all!!! The man i just mentioned had one book called escape from freedom, which to me said it all. I am now watching my compatriots rushing headlong as far away as possible from freedom. It seems it's just not what's wanted!!

Well, the push for further curbs on civil liberties is a top down process that is often supported by dodgy data that has been taken from questionably constructed polls. Experts pop up on our telly screens day after day with the same message : be afraid, be very afraid. The experts, like so many other 'experts', don't exist in some sort of ideologically neutral space. So when BBC news 24 has a former Met Police Commissioner on, talking about things like "vigilance" and the "new threat", I get quite cross.

Incidentally, Brown appointed Sir John Steven to his cabinet. John Steven has one of the most authoritarian voices I have ever heard.