Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Yes, I'd go on a course, but the Community Learning Centre is shut cos of all they strikes.*
* - NB - this was meant as a joke. I live in Scotland, where Unison is not on strike.
Happy Birthday, by the way.
Local Govt Unite/Unison Strike 16th 17th July
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
Yes, I'd go on a course, but the Community Learning Centre is shut cos of all they strikes.*
* - NB - this was meant as a joke. I live in Scotland, where Unison is not on strike.
Happy Birthday, by the way.
i appreciate that you apologised .. fair play
but do you really not think ever single one of those on strike had to make the hard personal calculation you suggest?? as i said i have two groups of colleagues one lot on 18k the others ( mainly indians ) on between 11 and 18 for the same work ( they were privatised and now back so this will change ) .. those on 11k had to think fkin hard about whether they could afford to strike and especially as they have suffer shit from their managers all the time
there are number of people on this thread who due to their work (
) think that most local govt are the office based suits, many of who ARE overpaid .. the fact is that the majority of council workers are poorly paid 'manuals' the kitchen assistants, cleaners, street sweeps, home helps etc the vast maj of who earn less than 20K, and most MUCH less than 20KFullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Well that's what I was asking.
My own conclusion would be that two days striking would not achieve any gain in salary, so that would be two days pay donated to the Council for no personal gain. And I would have gone on strike on those days but I'd know that I would be showing support for people making a wrong decision.
On the other hand, working and earning and providing a service, but contributing to suppporting a relatively small group of people (not liaison co-ordinators!) to go on permanent strike whose absence wouldn't harm the public but would cause difficulties for my bosses - for as long as it takes - is something I would see a potential benefit from. But nobody here agrees, even though people such as yourself agree that the present tactics are a ritual.
dennisr
the acceptable face
he, he touche.
the answer 'fullyplumped' is that it is councils that are meant to provide those services. To do this they have to pay those they employ decent wages to carry out those services. If they do not then it is the employer who has caused any resulting problems.
that is not to say that plenty of council staff understand and compensate on strike days for the inconveinience to service users.
But lets cut to the chase - many of them are made to feel 'responsible' for those service users (and many of them feel they are understandably...) by employers when it either comes to strikes or when it comes to to 'who is going to get the blame' when something terrible happens due to employers enforced 'initiatives' / policies etc etc but are treated like fucking idiots by those same employers when it comes to either pay or actually being listened to (as front line staff) when it comes to policy etc.
Given those staff a genuine say and a genuine responsibility and then you can attack them for not carrying out their 'responsibilities' when it comes to a 'withdrawal of labour' situation. And if it is all seemingly pointless (as you later say in the later contradictory post...) - lets see what happens when they withdraw their apparently 'pointless' labour on behalf of the councils and other employers.
The underlying reason for a strike is that it brings us back to the ACTUAL role workers play in their society. it is a rapid education both for those workers themselves and their employers. it states actual relationships as they actually exist.
dennisr
the acceptable face
dennisr
the acceptable face
you are a such a cunt troll and a liar
a big fucking liar
are you the new identity for our old anarcho-stalinist friend?
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
that is , kind of, the point of striking
And my point is that the current tactics don't cause any difficulties for the council bosses.
dennisr
the acceptable face
here comes the next excuse for being a scab
from a scab as usual
what cunts you all are - not wonder we have such a servile workforce in britain
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
I haven't attacked anyone. I asked a polite question.
Do workers know they're being "educated" in this way?
dennisr
the acceptable face
no you 'point' is flexible' based on the arguement against you as another poster pointed out
if there is not difference made by rthese workers - let them strike for fuckin ever - then we will see what little difference it makes. (plus we will have to listen to you hypocritical moaning about how these workers are to blame for the situation you then face).
i think that some of these workers provide a cover for employer 'initiatives' - social control by wanky means - i'd love to see what happens when they cannot be put into practice becasue the staff employed to put them into practice have enough because they are not paid enough to be stooges
Fuck all out tomorrow ans for the foreseeable future - to see how genuine fully plumped somewhat flexible arguments are
Don't you ever call me a scab. I've never scabbed!
Now do you want to answer my question about who belongs to your union?
dennisr
the acceptable face
ahh, the 'politeness' of the 'reasonable'
and how resaonable you are? - firstly you say these people should not withdraw labour because it effects their 'poor' service users - regardless of them conned and ripped off to accept a drop in income to do so.
The these same people provide not useful service whatsoever - and their strike ids pointless
all the usual excuses of a scab in my book - how r'easonable'
dennisr
the acceptable face
They learn from their own experience - as opposed to mugs like you mate
dennisr
the acceptable face
ohh, how hurt you are.
you are just another scab - hiding your true colours as cowards tend too. don't tell me you are an 'anarchist' philosopher...
wanker (I would say 'middle class wanker' but then we would have to go through some crap about class which misses my actual point completely as easily affronted 'friends' tend to)
dennisr
the acceptable face
tell me how many times have YOU struck - been on strike?
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
The Branch Committee, while acknowledging dennisr's enthusiasm for the cause, felt that he was perhaps not the first choice for chair of the recruitment sub-committee...
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Yeah, tell 'im - how big is your brazier?
dennisr
the acceptable face
the internet honesty committee, while fully acknowledeing fullyplumped enthusiasm for being a trolling cunt wishes he would read and try and answer the simple points made in the first post made by dennisr.
dennisr
the acceptable face
yes, that was exactly the ponit being made
Quite a few times, as a member of various unions. I've been sacked for union organising. You throw the word scab round like you have no understanding.
dennisr
the acceptable face
Whereas your 'understanding' of the basic point of strike action - withdrawing ones labour - is that of 'understanding'?? joker (and would take a bet you aint taken action once... 5/1 you are an internet 'anarcho' and inveterate liar)
Your loss dennisr.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
DownwardDog
Well-Known Member
There's about 260 working days in the year so if you go on strike for 2 days you're giving yourself about a 0.8% annual pay cut. The managers must be laughing their bollocks off.
nightbreed
Im Bored
DD, its a rubbish argument. Ask any local authority manager.
It actually costs management. They are forever bleating about the amount of sickness employees take and how much money its costs so whats the difference?
Local Authorities set there budgets without considering walkouts even though there are considerable amounts of cash stashed away as Prentice pointed out in the news.
If only a quarter of the entire local authority union members took strike action it becomes a financial headache.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Darn fuckin' right there. I certainly have, anyway.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
I think the recent strike was tactically wrong. What the leadership should be doing of all the Unions is to put maximum pressure on the employers.
How do they do this?
They need to ask all union members for a levy on their wages - could be £10 per month as an example.
This money should then be given to workers who will clearly cause a lot of disruption or revenue generation issues in the case of local government, and so forth. So that the bin men could come out for 1/2 weeks at a time if required on full strike pay, or Council Tax workers could screw up revenue generation for 1/2 weeks at a time on full strike pay.
This is the way forward, it will gain maximum support from membership and cause most useful disruption. As such be more likely to be effective, which is surely the main thing.
p.s - It is ridiculous to see Unite and Unison under writing New Labour, whilst NL are stabbing public sector workers in particular in the back! Pathetic union non-leadership yet again.
How do they do this?
They need to ask all union members for a levy on their wages - could be £10 per month as an example.
This money should then be given to workers who will clearly cause a lot of disruption or revenue generation issues in the case of local government, and so forth. So that the bin men could come out for 1/2 weeks at a time if required on full strike pay, or Council Tax workers could screw up revenue generation for 1/2 weeks at a time on full strike pay.
This is the way forward, it will gain maximum support from membership and cause most useful disruption. As such be more likely to be effective, which is surely the main thing.
p.s - It is ridiculous to see Unite and Unison under writing New Labour, whilst NL are stabbing public sector workers in particular in the back! Pathetic union non-leadership yet again.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Is this now your standard defualt retort to anyone disagreeing with you or asking a thorny question?
cockneyrebel
New Member
Overall a good if tiring two days. My building got about 60% out, which was actually good on previous strikes apparently (about 120 went in out of about 3-350). But a lot of consultants and senior managers in my building so there's always gonna be scabs.
The building over the road only had 12 out of 150 in and 9 of those were managers. The pickets were very good and the local rally on the Thursday of about 100 people got a good response from the public and quite a few tenants on the rally/march.
Don't agree with tbaldwins and poster2437s point about higher paid workers as the reality is that 60% of UNISON members in local government are on 16k a year or less.
The London wide demo was quite small and the union bureaucrats were boring and hypocritical (talking about senior managers earning 50k when they earn far more than that). The only one that got a good response was Mark Serwotka who was saying how important it is to link up different union struggles.
Can't see an all strike but I think there is the spirit for a series of strikes which could put a lot of pressure on Brown.
All in all a positive couple of days.
The building over the road only had 12 out of 150 in and 9 of those were managers. The pickets were very good and the local rally on the Thursday of about 100 people got a good response from the public and quite a few tenants on the rally/march.
Don't agree with tbaldwins and poster2437s point about higher paid workers as the reality is that 60% of UNISON members in local government are on 16k a year or less.
The London wide demo was quite small and the union bureaucrats were boring and hypocritical (talking about senior managers earning 50k when they earn far more than that). The only one that got a good response was Mark Serwotka who was saying how important it is to link up different union struggles.
Can't see an all strike but I think there is the spirit for a series of strikes which could put a lot of pressure on Brown.
All in all a positive couple of days.
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