Local Govt Unite/Unison Strike 16th 17th July

[Blagsta]

That's twice I've had to say I didn't say something that someone said I did say. There are people who think I said something and let their minds race with that and not actually read and understand what I said. I think they should read and think about what I did say instead of getting all angry and complaining about what I didn't say instead of what I did say. Do you see what I'm saying?

If you're not saying that a lot of people striking (and I quote) "weren't that necessary" and that "electors" don't understand that the neccessity of council workers (my original point was that people who use One O'Clock clubs understand very well how necessary they are and how underpaid they are), then I ain't got a fucking scoobie what you are saying! Maybe I'm a bit thick, like.

 

[Fullyplumped]

If you're not saying that a lot of people striking (and I quote) "weren't that necessary" and that "electors" don't understand that the neccessity of council workers (my original point was that people who use One O'Clock clubs understand very well how necessary they are and how underpaid they are), then I ain't got a fucking scoobie what you are saying! Maybe I'm a bit thick, like.

Blagsta, there's no need to use language.

Read the sentence in which I used the phrase "weren't that necessary" again, please. I was not suggesting that all council workers "weren't that necessary". I was saying that striking can lead to a realisation on the part of electors (or citizens, or taxpayers - whatever term we care to use for the people who vote in Councillors and pay Council Tax) that some posts aren't all that necessary to the immediate and essential life of the community. The people who staff the childrens' day centre are obviously necessary. Some (e.g. almost any post in which the word co-ordinator appears in the title) aren't.

I hope your scoobie shows up.

 

[Blagsta]

Yep, read it again. I still ain't got a clue what the fuck you're on about.

I must be stupid.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Yep, read it again. I still ain't got a clue what the fuck you're on about. I must be stupid.

Don't worry - you're young yet and you have plenty of time to learn.

 

[Cobbles]

Hundreds of thousends of local govt workers will be on strike

...and nobody noticed....

 

[Blagsta]

Don't worry - you're young yet and you have plenty of time to learn.

I'll be 37 tomorrow. Is there no hope for me, O wise New Labour hack?

 

[Fullyplumped]

I'll be 37 tomorrow. Is there no hope for me, O wise New Labour hack?

I'm much older than you, young whipper-snapper, and I'm still learning. Many happy returns of the day when it comes.

 

[Blagsta]

No wise words. My illusions are shattered.

 

[The39thStep]

Glad you asked. One idea would be to identify staff whose absence from work would impact on bosses - revenues staff, committee clerks, even secretaries to directors. Members could pay a levy to pay their wages for the long term. Service users wouldn't be affected.

What Unison is doing is having the opposite effect. Only members and service users suffer any advers consequences. But it will probably feel nice for the minority of activists to stand on a picket line, I suppose.

Well I was out on strike today and the public were very supportive and far from indifferent about council services or council staff. The selective strike action tactic has only ever been used when there hasn't been the support for all out action.

The idea that you somehow identify the shocktroops and continually pull them out on strike as a substitute when there is a dispute wouldn't be sustainable. The issue of pay isn't a sectional one but a council wide one.

The central issue is that New Labour are hiding behind the Tory led LGA and saying that the dispute is nothing to do with the govt. When the private sector is in trouble like Northern Rock New Labour will bail them out. The TU leaders are still bound to this anti working class right wing Govt otherwise they would coordinate the various national unions strike actions into some form of national day or days of action but they are shit scared that New labour will get voted out. If the Tories were in then they would still be shying away on the grounds that widespread national action would damage New Labours image.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Well I was out on strike today and the public were very supportive and far from indifferent about council services or council staff. The selective strike action tactic has only ever been used when there hasn't been the support for all out action.

Fair enough - I was asked for advice and I gave it, from my deep well of experience of having once worked for a Council. You saw all-out support, but I doubt if everyone did. I think my tactics, over a long time, would hurt your bosses. Your tactics just give the bosses a few million pounds windfall to play with. The LGA will just say "oh dear."

Of course supportive and non-indifferent people would say hello. Those people seriously inconvenienced wouldn't come up to you and say "great job" cos they'd probably be stuck at home.

 

[poster342002]

I think a two day strike ... will have these effects -

- members on strike will lose two days pay
- the council will keep two days pay
- bosses will show up at work and count who turned up and who didn't, and wonder how to spend the two days pay donated by striking staff
- most residents won't notice anything much
- a minority of service users and their families will be extremely inconvenienced
- security staff will get some overtime to secure premises
- councillors will stay at home, probably
- the employer side at the LGA will put out a press release
- the staff side will put out a press release.

Regardless of Fullyplumped's motives in posting this, there is a very large grain of truth in what he's/she's saying.

I very much doubt the strike will have much effect in increasing the pay offer. At most you'll probably get the odd percentage point here or there - probably introduced in stages and with a multitude of strings attached. At worst it will just be ignored.

I also, sadly, have to concur with his other posting about how it will just give activists a nice feeling of "doing something". I realise there are some who view the journey as more important than the destination (sort of "doesn't matter if we win - what matters is we made a stand" type-notion) but this only serves to further demoralise.

 

[trevhagl]

How long will it be before the loss of pay, the unexpected donation of unpaid wages to the employer, and the realisation that the staff members weren't that necessary, outweighs any potential gain from striking?

I remember that NALGO once organised a very very long strike by community workers in the days of Strathclyde Regional Council. Nobody missed them.

Yes everyone should just take what they're given and roll over for the boss.
Christ it's like the Conservative Party Conference on here

 

[tbaldwin]

ermm...... a cross class alliance of workers and bosses in the public sector wanting a 6% pay rise.....fuck that.....

The public sector wastes billions unnecesarily on bureacracy and sheer wankness....Since new labour got into power more and more jobs have been created in the public sector...Some of them great....some of them erm not so great.......

I support the idea that frontline workers should get a 5% pay rise but anybody on over £30 or £40K say should have a pay freeze....Unison are scabs....

 

[mk12]

So you oppose the strike action?

 

[mk12]

Yes everyone should just take what they're given and roll over for the boss.
Christ it's like the Conservative Party Conference on here

No, there's a few anti-strike posters. That's all.

 

[poster342002]

a cross class alliance of workers and bosses in the public sector

This is one of my main problems with this, too. This strike is NOT any sort of class struggle. The actual class struggels in those workpalces (such as the bosses bullying and sacking workers) will not be advanced by this action. If your main problem at work is some prick of a line-manager trying to get you sacked (just so they can enjoy wielding their authoritah), this dispute is unlikely to figure very high on your concerns, tbh.

 

[mk12]

What a load of bollocks. Workers striking to improve their pay is the class struggle. Just because some better paid employees are striking too is irrelevant.

 

[_angel_]

What a load of bollocks. Workers striking to improve their pay is the class struggle. Just because some better paid employees are striking too is irrelevant.

Are people arguing that the slightly better paid ought to be scabbing on this strike then?

 

[poster342002]

What a load of bollocks. Workers striking to improve their pay is the class struggle.

It can be, but the situation can also be more blurred.

Just because some better paid employees are striking too is irrelevant.

Not just better paid - but also in the role of hiring and firing them when they get back to their desks. That is the REAL class struggle in the workplace - one which is increasingly sidelined and talked down in terms of importance by the left. Much to the delight of the managerial classes.

 

[mk12]

Class struggle takes place in and outside the workplace.

 

[poster342002]

Class struggle takes place in and outside the workplace.

Of course - but the type of class warfare that takes place within the workplace largely comprises of the managers fucking over the lower-grade staff whilst the left pretends those same managers are actually comrades.

 

[mk12]

OK, fair enough.

Again though, why does that stop you supporting the strike?

I reckon there's plenty of people involved in all strikes you wouldn't like. It doesn't stop you supporting their cause when they do strike.

 

[poster342002]

OK, fair enough.

Again though, why does that stop you supporting the strike?

I reckon there's plenty of people involved in all strikes you wouldn't like. It doesn't stop you supporting their cause when they do strike.

I do support the strike, but can see it's inherant contradictions and probable futility.

Also the idea of scummy bosses threatening you with the sack one day, then going on strike the next and then resuming the threats the day after that just sickens me. The hypocrisy stinks worse than a bag of vomit that's been left in the sun for a week.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Yes everyone should just take what they're given and roll over for the boss.
Christ it's like the Conservative Party Conference on here

No, they shouldn't "just take what they're given and roll over for the boss." They should direct their energies to actions that will make life more difficult for the boss. A two day strike in public services won't; all it will do is hurt the workers and the people who use the services. I've suggested an alternative approach, which got dismissed, but apart from tutting, which I'm sure you did well, do you have a better idea?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Regardless of Fullyplumped's motives in posting this, there is a very large grain of truth in what he's/she's saying.

My motives are to ask whether a two day strike will possibly cost workers more than likely gains at the end of the day. My instinct is that two day strikes like this are rituals, and don't make a serious difference any more than similar recent strikes in DWP seem to have done.

And I wouldn't have said what I did if I didn't think there was a bushel of truth.

The point of my first post in this thread was to ask if anyone has done any assessment or calculation as to what the tipping point would be to make sacrificing pay worth it in terms of pay gains. I know there are serious TU officials and reps who read this forum who must have thought about this, and I would be be very interested to hear their views. In other words, what is the business case for going on strike as opposed to a different approach?

I'd also be interested in knowing if anyone had researched what employers in public services did with the money saved in not paying wages on those days and not providing the service otherwise. It must run to millions in many councils.

 

[durruti02]

Of course - but the type of class warfare that takes place within the workplace largely comprises of the managers fucking over the lower-grade staff whilst the left pretends those same managers are actually comrades.

you see i agree with you on one level .. but at the same time i am just thinking " fuck off poster and be more constructive!" cos do you really think the majority of stewards are mates with their managers???? .. that is simply shite

and you know what?? me and the boys ( many of who are STILL on 11,000 a year so er NO managers here) have just lost two days pay when we KNOW it may NOT be successfull BUT we are fighting against a bullshit union leaderships and 3decades of maggie .. we got to start somewhere ..

and you know what else??? i get shit from my managers day in day out week in week out year in year out (and give back when i can ) .. and you know what?? the vast majority of managers do NOT strike and the vast majority of stewards end up getting so much shit for their activities they leave the job .. so get real .. yes there problems with strikes like this .. but .. oh whatever

 

[durruti02]

How long will it be before the loss of pay, the unexpected donation of unpaid wages to the employer, and the realisation that the staff members weren't that necessary, outweighs any potential gain from striking?

I remember that NALGO once organised a very very long strike by community workers in the days of Strathclyde Regional Council. Nobody missed them.

FP .. this was your first post .. do not pretend it was a critique of ritualised strikes, which i doubt anyone on here disagrees with


but no your post was a insult to many hundreds of thousends of local govt workers .. of whom the vast maj do good important work and get paid shit for it ..

 

[Fullyplumped]

FP .. this was your first post .. do not pretend it was a critique of ritualised strikes, which i doubt anyone on here disagrees with

Sigh.... and again. The point of my first post in this thread was to ask if anyone has done any assessment or calculation as to what the tipping point would be to make sacrificing pay worth it in terms of pay gains.

but no your post was a insult to many hundreds of thousends of local govt workers .. of whom the vast maj do good important work and get paid shit for it ..

I apologise to anyone who feels insulted. Even community workers. Or liaison co-ordinators.

 

[sonny61]

I understand why they went on strike, as an inflation pay reward settlement will hit the low paid harder.
Although please remember, it was Labour who introduced the minimum wage, after the Tories scrapped the wages council.

I remember an advert in the late 80's for a job as a ''shoe shine'', working on commuter trains early in the morning, and in the evenings.
The pay was one pound fifty a hour.
Easy to forget these sort of things now the Tories have been out of power for so long.

I did notice on the Union marches supporting the strikes, the SWP paper sellers hovering around.
They reminded me of a pack of hyenas.

 

[Blagsta]

Sigh.... and again. The point of my first post in this thread was to ask if anyone has done any assessment or calculation as to what the tipping point would be to make sacrificing pay worth it in terms of pay gains.



I apologise to anyone who feels insulted. Even community workers. Or liaison co-ordinators.

Maybe you need to express yourself more clearly!