Chairman Meow said:I can see how you would have struggled with HDM as a child.
Sorry, I disagree. The writing in HDM is semi-surreal, it's more like the normal world seen though off-kilter glasses than typical fantasy style.
Loathing the Golden Compass and all that magical shite
- Thread starter Chairman Meow
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Sorry, I disagree. The writing in HDM is semi-surreal, it's more like the normal world seen though off-kilter glasses than typical fantasy style.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Don't be daft, there's no such place as Manchester.Chairman Meow said:Coronation Street is.
Chairman Meow
Perth, WA
RenegadeDog said:
It might not be typical fantasy, but its still fantasy. Daemons my arse.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
If only that was trueFridgeMagnet said:
Chairman Meow said:It might not be typical fantasy, but its still fantasy. Daemons my arse.
So why did you bother reading all 3 books if you hated it?
Chairman Meow
Perth, WA
RenegadeDog said:
How would I know I hated it unless I'd read it?
I was giving it a chance - I read a lot, so was willing to suspend my doubts and give it a go. If its any comfort its not the worst book I've ever read, but I still hated it. 
Termite Man
zombie flesh eater
Nemo said:
They are kids books though . Theres nothing wrong with reading kids books , it's pretending they are something different thats stupid , like the adult harry potter covers !
Chairman Meow
Perth, WA
Nemo said:
Tell me - how do you ascertain whether a book is to your liking or not? I find reading it usually helps.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Chairman Meow said:
Why would someone who hates goblins etc, even start reading His Dark Materials?
Are you a masochist?
I don't like brussels sprouts. I never eat them. No one can make me. I don't eat them, and then complain bitterly about how shit they are. What would be the point?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Chairman Meow said:But I read it because I expected it to be one of the best of its genre - I'm hardly going to drag myself through the *really* shite stuff! I can see that Pullman is a pretty damn good writer, but I still hate his books. So, you see, its not his talent I'm denigrating - I'm just saying the whole genre makes my teeth itch.
Yeah, you hate the genre, but you keep reading it. Maybe you should go have yourself checked out.
Chairman Meow
Perth, WA
Johnny Canuck2 said:Yeah, you hate the genre, but you keep reading it. Maybe you should go have yourself checked out.
Well I'd hardly dismiss the whole genre as crap if I'd only read one or two. I read a lot, so a few harry Potters, HDM and some Tolkien and Pratchett doesn't feel like much to me. I haven't touched the genre since HDM though, because I could see that it was well written and quite cleverly done, yet I still hated it.
As for your sprout analogy, I've hated them all my life. I tried some on Xmas Day and quite liked them. Funny that.
Chairman Meow
Perth, WA
Nemo said:
Really? I don't like leaving books unfinished, unless they are totally unreadable. I'm a quick reader, so its not too big a hardship.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Chairman Meow said:
Fair enough, but I think that if I read six Harlequin Romances and didn't like any, I'd probably refrain from reading any more.
You said you don't like stories with goblins, magick etc. These books have that stuff in them.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Chairman Meow said:
Why read it if you don't like it? It's like taking two drinks of a glass of milk and finding it's off, but finishing it because you're capbable of chugging it quickly.
Chairman Meow
Perth, WA
I just don't like leaving books unfinished, some people don't. I usually think they might get better, or sometimes if a book is really terrible I get my mum to read it as well so we can bitch about it together (we have the same taste). My mum even deliberately slips me appalling books and then waits to see how much of it I read before I catch on and ring her up saying how awful it is.
And I've read these books over the last 25 years or so - HDM was just my latest attempt at the genre. As I said I'll read pretty much anything. So many people had told me how brilliant it was I thought it was worth a punt. But it wasn't.
My mum even deliberately slips me appalling books and then waits to see how much of it I read before I catch on and ring her up saying how awful it is. And I've read these books over the last 25 years or so - HDM was just my latest attempt at the genre. As I said I'll read pretty much anything. So many people had told me how brilliant it was I thought it was worth a punt. But it wasn't.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
If I pick up a book, I'll give it its first third. If I'm not into it by then, I'll put it down. I have other things to do, other books to read.
me too - if I'm not feeling a book, I rarely get more than 20-30 pages in without having to put it down. Very occasionally this happens and then I go back and force myself to read it and end up liking it. This happened with Atonement. But not that often.
Chilliconcarne
Proud to be dull
I love a bit of fantasy escapism. I guess if you try to apply real life to everything you read and view every piece of fiction as something that either fits into your interpretation of real life or it just doesn't, then fantasy isn't for you. Nothing wrong with that. I just think indulging in a little escapism now and again is good for the imagination, and good for the soul
But then I am a LOtR freak lol
But then I am a LOtR freak lol
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
I wouldn't class HDM as fantsy escapism like LOTR or Harry Potter.
Yes its a fantastical adventure for young people - but also a quite subtle and subversive philosophical argument promoting an essentially humanist worldview with heavy borrowings from Blake and Milton. Its more akin to Brave New World or The Dispossesed (Ursula Le Guin) than Harry fucking Potter.
Yes its a fantastical adventure for young people - but also a quite subtle and subversive philosophical argument promoting an essentially humanist worldview with heavy borrowings from Blake and Milton. Its more akin to Brave New World or The Dispossesed (Ursula Le Guin) than Harry fucking Potter.
Ponce.
I thought Pullman's books were ok, but for all the hype and slight snobbiness around those tomes they weren't that much superior to Harry Potter. One series was written unapologetically for children, the other perhaps has ideas above its station. Neither deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Milton or Blake.
I thought Pullman's books were ok, but for all the hype and slight snobbiness around those tomes they weren't that much superior to Harry Potter. One series was written unapologetically for children, the other perhaps has ideas above its station. Neither deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Milton or Blake.
)
maximilian ping
Grrrrr
tarannau said:
you thick
Chairman Meow
Perth, WA
Kaka Tim said:
I'm tempted to send this to Pseuds corner.
maximilian ping said:
Cutting. If I was Pullman I could deconstruct that sentence and make a unnecessarily long, dry trilogy out of it.
Love the value judgement though. You see, I don't think many people would ever make a case for Harry Potter being good literature - it's easily consumed writing for kids. They tell good, familiar and safe tales in a way that children enjoy. Nowt wrong with that.
I actually have a soft spot for fantasy novels and was still strangely unimpressed with HDM. Expected more if I'm honest. Better written for sure, but also strangely cold and uninvolving. Nothing really seemed to surprise me that much either - familiar like Daemons, a plucky heroine and fighting talking animals. A slightly uncomfortable mix of Potter's storybook predictability and trying to do somthing a little more ambitious imo. I just whipped through the books and thought 'meh' more than anything else.
I had a go at the dark materials, but didn't enjoy them, - I do like fantasy in general though.
There was a bit that really made me laugh, cause it was so much like C S Lewis backwards, - there was this didactic passage about the virtues of lying, because Lyra? had discovered that adults in general were just not to be trusted, and the only sensible and moral thing to do with them was to lie to them, and within the context of the book it made sense.
I think it was a kind of dig at using fairy tales to put across particular religious worldviews, kind of syaing you can make a case for anything through a novel if you put your mind to it. afaic Narnia and Harry Potter books are much better, if you like escapist childrens' fantasy;.
There was a bit that really made me laugh, cause it was so much like C S Lewis backwards, - there was this didactic passage about the virtues of lying, because Lyra? had discovered that adults in general were just not to be trusted, and the only sensible and moral thing to do with them was to lie to them, and within the context of the book it made sense.
I think it was a kind of dig at using fairy tales to put across particular religious worldviews, kind of syaing you can make a case for anything through a novel if you put your mind to it. afaic Narnia and Harry Potter books are much better, if you like escapist childrens' fantasy;.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Demosthenes said:
Well its demonstrating to young people that adults can be oppresive, decietful, hypocritical and cruel and that what adults say is not always the right or 'moral' thing to do and that disobidience and lying can be justified casues of action. It also laucnhes a humanist assault on the whole concept of orignal sin and oprresive religion And it does it through the medium of a highly imaginitive and exciting adventure story - Rock on Phillip Pulman I say. Much rather that than CS Lewis' christian moralising wank or the 'mallory towers with wands' world of Harry Potter.
Big fucking whoopee. You seem to make the assumption that in some way that'd be surprising or new to kids in some way. That's actually one of my criticisms of Pullman - there's a bit of a smartarse Partridge-style smugness that I found dislikeable. It's swapping one didactic mode for another.
Still, I must feel that I must compliment you on your efforts at coming up with the pretentious peach of a phrase 'humanist assault on the whole concept of orignal sin.'
Lovely work indeed. My arse.
Did you honestly find HDM that 'imaginitive' btw?. Maybe I had higher expectations, but talk of shadowy organisations, monkey-like daemons and a plucky young heronie being chased by a duplicitious 'witch' of a woman seemed a little too hackneyed for me.
Still, I must feel that I must compliment you on your efforts at coming up with the pretentious peach of a phrase 'humanist assault on the whole concept of orignal sin.'
Lovely work indeed. My arse.
Did you honestly find HDM that 'imaginitive' btw?. Maybe I had higher expectations, but talk of shadowy organisations, monkey-like daemons and a plucky young heronie being chased by a duplicitious 'witch' of a woman seemed a little too hackneyed for me.
Chairman Meow
Perth, WA
tarannau said:Big fucking whoopee. You seem to make the assumption that in some way that'd be surprising or new to kids in some way. That's actually one of my criticisms of Pullman - there's a bit of a smartarse Partridge-style smugness that I found dislikeable. It's swapping one didactic mode for another.
Still, I must feel that I must compliment you on your efforts at coming up with the pretentious peach of a phrase 'humanist assault on the whole concept of orignal sin.'
Lovely work indeed. My arse.
Indeed. What a load of condecending old wank.
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