Livingstone still faces disqualification from office

[nino_savatte]

could you point to this derailment?

Now you want me to do your work for you. Lazy sod.

 

[editor]

to ask him a question - and a fair enough question, for a journalist - as he left's now a fucking vendetta?

You asked for "proof that finegold's anything more than some dogsbody journo who drew the short straw and was unlucky enough to be covering the reception".

I assume you now concede that it was entirely the journo's decision to go there and 'doorstep' Ken at the end of a social event?

 

[Pickman's model]

Now you want me to do your work for you. Lazy sod.

i dispute your derailment bollocks. that you will not - because you cannot - point to a post of mine derailing this thread shows how full of shit you are.

 

[editor]

Is that the best you can do, Picky?

Please don't call him Picky. I've had enough reported posts to last a lifetime today and he's extraordinarily sensitive on this issue.

 

[nino_savatte]

i dispute your derailment bollocks. that you will not - because you cannot - point to a post of mine derailing this thread shows how full of shit you are.

ROTFLMAO!!! You don't realise how much you sound like Johnny Canuck2.

 

[nino_savatte]

Please don't call him Picky. I've had enough reported posts to last a lifetime today and he's extraordinarily sensitive on this issue.

I noticed. But he's not exactly playing fair, is he?

 

[Pickman's model]

You asked for "proof that finegold's anything more than some dogsbody journo who drew the short straw and was unlucky enough to be covering the reception".

I assume you now concede that it was entirely the journo's decision to go there and 'doorstep' Ken at the end of a social event?

no, i don't. i would assume that newspapers parcel out their stories to reporters - one covering one issue, one another, and probably some poor fucker at the end of the queue taking all the stories no one else wants. i feel that finegold was that poor fucker at the end of the queue, doing what no one else wanted to do, and only doing it because the event was a matter of publick interest. unless you don't think that a reception for a london politician hosted by a load of other politicians and doubtless paid for out of publick funds is a matter of publick interest. and i believe that the editor or finegold's standard line manager doubtless had some influence on the decision.

 

[Pickman's model]

I noticed. But he's not exactly playing fair, is he?

and could you point to an instance of this unfairness?

 

[Streathamite]

I take on board editor's point about the journalist askking for an invite, being rejected, and then doorstepping - but I can't help feeling that the elected mayor - of all people - should be able to take a little journalistic hassling without chucking his toys overboard. He's a career politician in his 50's, ffs!

 

[untethered]

I take on board editor's point about the journalist askking for an invite, being rejected, and then doorstepping -0 but I can't help feeling that the elected mayor - of all people - should be able to take a little journalistic hassling without chucking his toys overboard. He's a career politician in his 50's, ffs!

He didn't chuck his toys overboard. He called Finegold a cunt, which he obviously is, not least from the evidence of his inability to take it on the chin like a man.

Which is really the entire crux of the matter: a small playground dispute blown up into a huge (public) money-wasting issue.

 

[Streathamite]

He didn't chuck his toys overboard. He called Finegold a cunt, which he obviously is, not least from the evidence of his inability to take it on the chin like a man.

Which is really the entire crux of the matter: a small playground dispute blown up into a huge (public) money-wasting issue.

he did a little more than that. from the OP link;

On being approached by Mr Finegold outside, Mr Livingstone refused to talk about the party. Instead, referring to the Daily Mail - the Standard's sister paper - and its support for the Nazis in the 1930s, Mr Livingstone is said to have baited the reporter, asking if he was "a German war criminal".

On being told that Mr Finegold was Jewish and found that remark offensive, the mayor said: "You are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you?"

I like ken, but this wasn't one of his better moments.

 

[e-fluent]

If the remark was slavery and the target was a black man I am in no doubt a public apology would havwe been enough. because it is the jewish community and the subject is a left wing politician I am in no doubt this is nothing short of political career assasination.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Oh come on! Livingstone was not just another 'soft leftist'. I saw him on Militant platforms defending the Editorial Board against expulsion.

No he wasn't - he proved less tenacious than many "soft leftists". And many soft leftists opposed the witchhunt against Militant, because they rightly saw it as just one aspect of a much larger campaign by the right wing to change the future course of the Labour Party. As for defending "radical socialist policies", Livingstone was at times very radical in words but never really matched that with actions. His relationship with elements of the supposedly revolutionary left can serve to confuse here, but I don't think anyone is going to seriously argue that his associations with the Healyites and now some of the more Stalinoid refugees from the IMG are anything other than a marriage of convenience.

We are in agreement that he has changed dramatically, but I don't see what he was before as being all that "red" either. Still much better than the pro-business Mayor he has turned into though.

 

[nino_savatte]

and could you point to an instance of this unfairness?

And "mendacity"? I mean, really....come on.

 

[editor]

publick....publick....publick <sigh> and i believe that the editor or finegold's standard line manager doubtless had some influence on the decision.

I've already explained this. According to the news today, he ASKED to cover the event. Have you any proof that he was forced to go?

 

[e-fluent]

Any citizens who voted for Ken in the mayoral elections needs to go right down to that so called edudication board and tell them exactly what they think of this strung out political career assisination.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I hear the sound of an axe scraping on carborundum.

Nah, that's my razor scraping my chin.

 

[Streathamite]

If the remark was slavery and the target was a black man I am in no doubt a public apology would havwe been enough. because it is the jewish community and the subject is a left wing politician I am in no doubt this is nothing short of political career assasination.

are you trying to be satirical? if not, what ARe you saying cos it reads very dodgily indeed.

 

[Pickman's model]

Any citizens who voted for Ken in the mayoral elections needs to go right down to that so called edudication board and tell them exactly what they think of this strung out political career assisination.

you're quite right - livingstone's political career's been strung out quite long enough.

 

[Pickman's model]

And "mendacity"? I mean, really....come on.

you claim, with no evidence whatsoever, that i deliberately spell in the manner of the great beast - by which you doubtless mean that second-rate faker, aleister crowley. as i have repeatedly observ'd, crowley has nothing to do with it. yet you persist in this baseless, mendacious assertion: and it has long been my understanding that someone who propagates a lie is a liar.

liar: one who tells falsehood; one who wants veracity.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've already explained this. According to the news today, he ASKED to cover the event. Have you any proof that he was forced to go?

could you sort out a link for yr assertion? according to this source finegold contacted the mayoral press office and was inform'd it would be fine for him to hang about outside.

have you ever heard of a journalist being forced to do something? there was a reception at city hall for a london mp, hosted by the london mayor - and you're surprised that the london evening paper sent a reporter along? ffs, editor, ffs.

 

[JoePolitix]

you're quite right - livingstone's political career's been strung out quite long enough.

That's for the people of London to decide, not the Rothmere clan.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's for the people of London to decide, not the Rothmere clan.

what the fuck are you on about?

rothmere?

i hope you know what yr talking about as i don't have a bloody clew. are you proposing the enlargement of the standards board so that these rothmeres' votes are diluted by the participation of the 7m+ londoners?

 

[JoePolitix]

what the fuck are you on about?

rothmere?

i hope you know what yr talking about as i don't have a bloody clew. are you proposing the enlargement of the standards board so that these rothmeres' votes are diluted by the participation of the 7m+ londoners?

Actually I made an error here. I had assumed that the complaint to the standards board was made by the Mail Group, I've just looked it up and it turns out the complaint was made by the Board of Deputies of British Jews.

But the principle still remains. Why the fuck should Livingstone be removed from office for making comments that virtually no one gives a shit about. To do so would be a clear assault on democracy at the behest of the most reactionary section of the rightwing press. Fuck em.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

No he wasn't - he proved less tenacious than many "soft leftists". And many soft leftists opposed the witchhunt against Militant, because they rightly saw it as just one aspect of a much larger campaign by the right wing to change the future course of the Labour Party. As for defending "radical socialist policies", Livingstone was at times very radical in words but never really matched that with actions. His relationship with elements of the supposedly revolutionary left can serve to confuse here, but I don't think anyone is going to seriously argue that his associations with the Healyites and now some of the more Stalinoid refugees from the IMG are anything other than a marriage of convenience.

We are in agreement that he has changed dramatically, but I don't see what he was before as being all that "red" either. Still much better than the pro-business Mayor he has turned into though.

The phrase that "Livingstone advocated radical socialist policies" in the 1980s came directly from Taafe as recently as 2000. I think this is clear evidence that Socialist Party/Militant felt some five years ago that Livingstone was far more radical than a 'soft left' - a term that at one time included the likes of David Blunkett, Tom Sawyer, Bryan Gould, Robin Cook and Michael Meacher.

I disagree that "soft leftists" were prepared to defend Militant. In my experience, it was actually one of the distinguishing features between them and the so-called "hard left" (which itself ranged from the relatively principled - Simpson, Corbyn, Maynard, Wise, Heffer - through to the more chameleon-like Benn himself). Even then, very few prominent figures in the Labour Party were prepared at the height of the witchhunt to join a Militant platform to defend them from expulsion. Livingstone did.

We can at least agree that his trajectory since then has been dreadful, and his association with Healey and the Ross-ites, and their association with him, absolutely diabolical.

 

[Pickman's model]

Actually I made an error here. I had assumed that the complaint to the standards board was made by the Mail Group, I've just looked it up and it turns out the complaint was made by the Board of Deputies of British Jews.

But the principle still remains. Why the fuck should Livingstone be removed from office for making comments that virtually no one gives a shit about. To do so would be a clear assault on democracy at the behest of the most reactionary section of the rightwing press. Fuck em.

let me get this straight - livingstone's not to blame for his unsavoury views because the nasty mail group supported his candidacy for mayor twice and the board of deputies of british jews are acting on that newspaper group's behalf?

 

[JoePolitix]

let me get this straight - livingstone's not to blame for his unsavoury views because the nasty mail group supported his candidacy for mayor twice and the board of deputies of british jews are acting on that newspaper group's behalf?

You’re making far too big a deal of the Standard’s "support" for Livingstone. They only backed him because he was the only candidate who could have beaten Steven Norris – who happened to have been involved with a particularly viciously feud with Paul Dacre.

Their support for his election was purely tactical and since then they have lead a highly vindictive and personal campaign against him. Livingstone has been fully aware of this and is obviously not to bothered about courting their support stating "I deplore them [the Associated papers] and regret they ever existed".

As for "unsavoury" views, the ones that spring to my mind are the ones expressed by screaming headlines of the Standard/Mail demanding tough measures against asylum seekers, immigrants and Gypsies. Obviously the unseating of Livingstone would be an enormous propaganda coup for these racist reactionary bastards against one of the few politicians who has been prepared to stand up their poison.

 

[Pickman's model]

Obviously the unseating of Livingstone would be an enormous propaganda coup for these racist reactionary bastards against one of the few politicians who has been prepared to stand up their poison.

and who does this by hobnobbing with some of the less attractive moslem 'moderates' and having a pop at inoffensive jewish journalists?

 

[JoePolitix]

hobnobbing with some of the less attractive moslem 'moderates'

I'm starting to see why you're in a bloc with the right to unseat the guy...

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm starting to see why you're in a bloc with the right to unseat the guy...

what, you think that that qawadawi's some sort of maligned decent bloke? guy's a fucking nutta!