Living in the 21st Century

[Groucho]

In these changing times we need to change our behaviours.

For one thing we need to work longer to fund our pension. We also need to retire early (especialy if you are in the public sector) to facilitate job cuts. Retire early and work later/longer.

Secondly we need to put more money aside to pay for pensions and for insurance against flooding and for rising housing and transport costs, so we need to earn more. We also (especially if you are in the public sector) need to have your pay curbed (to pay for wars). So earn more on less pay.

We also need to curb our carbon footprint and drive a car.

We also need greater efficiency in public services. To achieve this we need fewer public servants. Take the fine example of the Rural Payments Agency. A few years ago the Agency was not efficient. They processed payments for farmers and farmers got their payments. Whatever you think of the system where farmers get such subsidies the fact is they got them. Then the Agency was reformed to be made more efficient. After which time farmers ceased getting their payments, farmers suffered bankruptsy, the Agency cost more money to operate and the UK Government were fined millions££ by the EU. But at least they were efficient, eh?

Now they want to make the post office more efficient like they did the railways (cost more, worse service). One way of increasing efficiency is to close the post offices.

The Government had a task force tasked with tackling social exclusion in rural areas. Their soul contribution to tackling social exclusion in rural areas was to cut the subsidy to local authorities for rural bus routes.

So retire early, work later, earn more on less pay and become efficient by costing more and fucking everything up, drive your car everywhere and curb your emmissions.

*That was a public service announcement from Groucho*

 

[poster342002]

I know this, you know this.

But try saying it to anybody and they'll just snigger and look at you as if your the one that's mad. Everyone's got the heads firmly in the sand and is happy to be repeatedly screwed over rather than stand up and fight (or even acknowledge any of this as being a problem). Either than or you get the "communism's dead, mate. Get over it" schtick. Yes - this hoary old chestnut is still brought out on a regular basis.

I think the contradictions of the system have never been more apparent or obvious. The system doesn't show any signs of collapsing beneath the weight of them, however, as people have never been so ignorant or wilfully blind to them.

 

[Das Uberdog]

The nonsensical varieties of different messages may well be increasingly bizarre and contradictory - but that succeeds in it's purpose of confusing people anyway. What you really want for a coherant class struggle is actual definitive class lines drawn in the sand for everybody to see.

All the higgledy-piggledy nonsense messages are designed to create a sense of post-modern confusion.

 

[tbaldwin]

I wonder how many people are on holiday for the third or fourth time this year at the mo?
My granparents generation only went abroad if there was a war. Now people in average jobs often go 4 or 5 times a year.

The minimum income guarantee,tax credits and the minimum wage have all been good.
And so has massivelly increasing spending on health and education.

But your right a lot of people are not really happy.
But they would rather have whats on offer from mainstream political parties than whats on offer from the likes of RESPECT groucho.
Why do you think that is?

 

[JHE]

...actual definitive class lines drawn in the sand for everybody to see.

"Cross that, bitch!"

 

[_angel_]

I wonder how many people are on holiday for the third or fourth time this year at the mo??

I don't know anyone who goes abroad that often, on holiday. At least not anyone not retired.

 

[poster342002]

I wonder how many people are on holiday for the third or fourth time this year at the mo?

I haven't been on holiday to anywhere for years - I can't afford it.

 

[rhys gethin]

I wonder how many people are on holiday for the third or fourth time this year at the mo?
My granparents generation only went abroad if there was a war. Now people in average jobs often go 4 or 5 times a year.

The minimum income guarantee,tax credits and the minimum wage have all been good.
And so has massivelly increasing spending on health and education.

But your right a lot of people are not really happy.
But they would rather have whats on offer from mainstream political parties than whats on offer from the likes of RESPECT groucho.
Why do you think that is?

Even if they are (bleakly) 'happy' at the moment, the removal of all their political defences and political rights is going to make them a bloody sight less happy when the slump comes - or do you perhaps suppose, tbaldwin,
that capitalism (as so often in the past!) has finally solved its problems? In that case, be happy, do. To go and work on your skin cancer four times a year seems to me a piss-poor plan though, I must say, even if it is paid for by going further into debt.

 

[lewislewis]

I wonder how many people are on holiday for the third or fourth time this year at the mo?
My granparents generation only went abroad if there was a war. Now people in average jobs often go 4 or 5 times a year.

The minimum income guarantee,tax credits and the minimum wage have all been good.
And so has massivelly increasing spending on health and education.

But your right a lot of people are not really happy.
But they would rather have whats on offer from mainstream political parties than whats on offer from the likes of RESPECT groucho.
Why do you think that is?

Strangely, I broadly agree with you from a critical position, in terms of going on holiday- I can travel widely across Europe on a limited income and this is an opportunity my parents never had. I have certain rights my parents did not benefit from- mainly rights from Europe but also some from the UK. Clearly, societies in general are more prosperous in the West than they have been in the past. I do think the mainstream political consensus doesn't seem to be that disastrous, but there are alot of things that could be done away with (such as the ID cards, privatisations in health and education and possibly the railways, huge wealth inequalities) in the present system.

Also material wealth is not a good indicator of human happiness, alot of people need spiritual and mental growth rather than just a bank balance. There needs to be a compromise between keeping the benefits of the present system and building a more humane society. I think New Labour/Conservatives will not achieve this, and the UK is a flawed American-style political project that should be wound up as soon as possible.

 

[fela fan]

...and the UK is a flawed American-style political project that should be wound up as soon as possible.

Hey, that's good!

The funny thing is, a very good alternative has been waiting in the wings for ages: just fully join up with the EU.

But no, the british public would lose their sovereignty to the europeans, and that just would not do.

The amazing thing is that they don't seem to realise they lost their sovereignty ages ago to the americans. The very thing they fear will happen with the EU has already happened.

The most alarming thing to those in power in the US is the UK fully merging with the EU. But they'll be fine, the british think that if they keep their pint and their pound then they retain their sovereignty.

Quaint and charming i guess.

 

[fela fan]

Living in the 21st century seems to entail walking a tightrope: believing that one is free to make choices while simultaneously doing any amount of twisting to avoid facing the fact that this is in fact a con.

Believing one has freedom, refusing to accept one hasn't.

The state is right in yer face these days. And their tools are marketing, advertising, media, and fear.

Their enduring success is that they've succeeded in fooling people into thinking they're free while ripping up their freedom.

 

[dennisr]

I wonder how many people are on holiday for the third or fourth time this year at the mo?
My granparents generation only went abroad if there was a war. Now people in average jobs often go 4 or 5 times a year

What a load of unsubstanciated rubbish. I can't be in an average job then. People in the UK are working longer hours than ever.

The minimum income guarantee,tax credits and the minimum wage have all been good. And so has massivelly increasing spending on health and education.

and this from a fella who goes on about how the immigrants are lowering our overall standards? - the minimum income and tax credits have trapped folk in low wages - setting a new low standard. The 'spending' on health and education comes a) back out from our pockets (not from the super rich who pay sod all in taxes) and b) goes into the pockets of and subsidising big business via PFI, PPP etc etc it is not reflected in improved services

 

[poster342002]

The amazing thing is that they don't seem to realise they lost their sovereignty ages ago to the americans. The very thing they fear will happen with the EU has already happened.

Curious how outfits like the UKIP never seem to have anything to say or kick up about this...

 

[poster342002]

Living in the 21st century seems to entail walking a tightrope: believing that one is free to make choices while simultaneously doing any amount of twisting to avoid facing the fact that this is in fact a con.

Tell me about it. Only yesterday - in a meeting I, once again, witnessed the staggering undignfied spectacle of people actually supporting and heaping praise on attacks on their own working conditions.

 

[fela fan]

Tell me about it. Only yesterday - in a meeting I, once again, witnessed the staggering undignfied spectacle of people actually supporting and heaping praise on attacks on their own working conditions.

I often wonder if the picture i'm getting of current day britain is a true reflection of what is happening. I get snippets and anecdotes and stories from friends still living there, from british people i meet who come to thailand for holidays, from reading urban and so on. But sadly your comment here simply is not in any way unbelievable, and i really do wonder about the sanity of the country these days. What you have just said mate is truly staggering, but what's even worse is that i am entirely comfortable in believing it.

What has happened in such a short time? The other day i read that loads of callers to talk back radio were attacking human rights!!!!!!

If you can, can you tell me more about the kind of work these people are doing, and why you think they are in effect attacking themselves?

 

[fela fan]

Curious how outfits like the UKIP never seem to have anything to say or kick up about this...

Or the newspapers. I always thought it funny complaining about losing your national identity when it had already been lost.

A true mark of madness, i can't call it any other way.

Unless of course we can be so narrow as to define our culture as being able to get a pint and pay for it in pounds.

 

[fela fan]

I would further provide the observation that britain has skillfully managed to acquire the worst of both worlds and managed to avoid the best of either.

I was recently led, very forcefully due to my inability to accept it, that you cannot now buy bent bananas or cucumbers any more. Can anyone confirm this new aspect of living in the 21st century?

 

[lewislewis]

Hey, that's good!

The funny thing is, a very good alternative has been waiting in the wings for ages: just fully join up with the EU.

But no, the british public would lose their sovereignty to the europeans, and that just would not do.

The amazing thing is that they don't seem to realise they lost their sovereignty ages ago to the americans. The very thing they fear will happen with the EU has already happened.

The most alarming thing to those in power in the US is the UK fully merging with the EU. But they'll be fine, the british think that if they keep their pint and their pound then they retain their sovereignty.

Quaint and charming i guess.

Depends what you mean by 'joining up fully with the EU'. There are plenty of countries in the EU that haven't sent their troops to die in Iraq for example, is it too much to ask for us to be one of those countries?

You are right, unfortunately the media in the UK is dominated by a right-wing, anti-European agenda. I truly think if we choose the European route rather than the America route we will have less wars & terrorism and better rights and pay.

 

[fela fan]

Depends what you mean by 'joining up fully with the EU'. There are plenty of countries in the EU that haven't sent their troops to die in Iraq for example, is it too much to ask for us to be one of those countries?

You are right, unfortunately the media in the UK is dominated by a right-wing, anti-European agenda. I truly think if we choose the European route rather than the America route we will have less wars & terrorism and better rights and pay.

I just meant to either be a full member or not one at all. Give up the bloody pound and so on.

There are some bad things about the EU, but we seem to be taking the bad of both the EU and the US by trying to walk between the two. The EU is a whole heap less worse than the US model for developed nations to follow.

Are you sure about the reasons for not choosing the european route? Is it not more to do with american influences? Or is that what you meant by right wing?

Agreed re wars and human rights. But last i heard plenty of british people were turning their backs on human rights... didn't want them any more.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't know anyone who goes abroad that often, on holiday. At least not anyone not retired.

I don't even know any retired folk who go abroad that often.

In fact the only person I know who does go abroad that often does so to visit his kids.

 

[slaar]

I would further provide the observation that britain has skillfully managed to acquire the worst of both worlds and managed to avoid the best of either.

I was recently led, very forcefully due to my inability to accept it, that you cannot now buy bent bananas or cucumbers any more. Can anyone confirm this new aspect of living in the 21st century?

I can confirm that it's not true if you want:

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/08/eu.facts.myths/index.html

Others, officials say, are completely untrue -- including the story that bananas sold within the EU must not be excessively curved.

The "bent-banana syndrome," legend has it, arose from a reporter's question at a 1992 news conference.

European officials were announcing the need to create a single market -- with single standards -- among the then-15 member states.

"Some wise cracker asked: 'What does this mean for the curvature of bananas?'" recalled one EU official. The question stuck and a myth was born.

 

[slaar]

The funny thing is, a very good alternative has been waiting in the wings for ages: just fully join up with the EU.

But no, the british public would lose their sovereignty to the europeans, and that just would not do.

The amazing thing is that they don't seem to realise they lost their sovereignty ages ago to the americans. The very thing they fear will happen with the EU has already happened.

The most alarming thing to those in power in the US is the UK fully merging with the EU. But they'll be fine, the british think that if they keep their pint and their pound then they retain their sovereignty.

Last time I checked, not a single country wanted to "give up their sovereignty" to the EU. Not really sure what you mean by that. And the EU is not all peaches and ice cream either. Ironically, for example, the preferential trade deals the Bush administration has set up with the poorest countries in the world are much more beneficial to them than the new EU ones.

 

[lewislewis]

The EU itself is not a perfect project by a long shot. But I think it would actually strengthen our sovereignty by pulling us away from the American sphere of influence (in terms of foreign policy).

So while not perfect at all the EU is the most viable vehicle at the moment for European co-operation.

Brits don't like human rights because the rights are 'European' and 'politically correct'. Fucking sad state of affairs.

 

[poster342002]

I would further provide the observation that britain has skillfully managed to acquire the worst of both worlds and managed to avoid the best of either.

I've often said that we've been lumbered with all of the crap bits of American culture and politics (monetarism, rightwing indivualism etc) but none of the good bits (constitution, guarantee of rights, free speech etc).

I was recently led, very forcefully due to my inability to accept it, that you cannot now buy bent bananas or cucumbers any more. Can anyone confirm this new aspect of living in the 21st century?

I'm relieved to say that that, at least, is just a myth!

 

[poster342002]

I often wonder if the picture i'm getting of current day britain is a true reflection of what is happening. I get snippets and anecdotes and stories from friends still living there, from british people i meet who come to thailand for holidays, from reading urban and so on. But sadly your comment here simply is not in any way unbelievable, and i really do wonder about the sanity of the country these days. What you have just said mate is truly staggering, but what's even worse is that i am entirely comfortable in believing it.

It beggars belief even for me. Every time the management announce a new erosion of our working conditions via some fuckwitted new "initiative", you can gaurantee that everyone will enthusiastically pant with delight and say what a good idea it is, what an "opportunity" it is to have to jump over hurdles that previously weren't there. Job cuts? "Good Idea!", they'll cry! "it'll get rid of the deadwood". Of course, that "deadwood" will never be them, so they think; it'll always be some mug who "deserves it". Like stupid honking wildebeests running from the mangy jackal - hoping that so long as it'll get those less able to run, they'll be alright jack. Strike day? Let's all come into work and scab like the loyal corporate men & women we are, leaving only the union reps to be the ones striking.

I'm always the only one sticking my neck out and trying to talk sense, only for everyone to snigger and defend the indefensible - even though it's brazenly against their own interests.

 

[fela fan]

Last time I checked, not a single country wanted to "give up their sovereignty" to the EU. Not really sure what you mean by that. And the EU is not all peaches and ice cream either. Ironically, for example, the preferential trade deals the Bush administration has set up with the poorest countries in the world are much more beneficial to them than the new EU ones.

All i ever read in the press was that putting our lot in with the EU would mean a loss of sovereignty.

I always found this funny, because to my way of thinking we'd already handed most of it over to the americans. Nowadays, i seriously wonder if most british people equate their sovereignty with having the pound and buying pints. Certainly that's just about all that's left. A prime example of people deluding themselves that they have freedom of choice.

Of course the EU is not all peaches and ice-cream. But the model of living that a portuguese or spaniard or italian or greek or frenchman is living under seems so much better to me than that which the american is living.

As for your last comment, if i were you mate i'd do a bit more thinking on that. Although obviously it depends on who you think is benefitting. Coz in the country i live in it certainly ain't the comman man and woman. I know many at the top strata of society are benefitting...

 

[fela fan]

It beggars belief even for me. Every time the management announce a new erosion of our working conditions via some fuckwitted new "initiative", you can gaurantee that everyone will enthusiastically pant with delight and say what a good idea it is, what an "opportunity" it is to have to jump over hurdles that previously weren't there. Job cuts? "Good Idea!", they'll cry! "it'll get rid of the deadwood". Of course, that "deadwood" will never be them, so they think; it'll always be some mug who "deserves it". Like stupid honking wildebeests running from the mangy jackal - hoping that so long as it'll get those less able to run, they'll be alright jack. Strike day? Let's all come into work and scab like the loyal corporate men & women we are, leaving only the union reps to be the ones striking.

I'm always the only one sticking my neck out and trying to talk sense, only for everyone to snigger and defend the indefensible - even though it's brazenly against their own interests.

If this is repeated across jobs and across britain it paints an extremely bleak picture for the future, never mind how bad the present seems. It is no wonder that people will swallow the garbage and propaganda spewed out to them in tv soundbytes and a dishonest distorted disinforming press.


[I'm happy to hear about the bananas and cucumbers though, but i'm pissed coz i can't remember the bastard that was so insistent it was true. I'm happy also that i just could not accept this, the radar is not too faulty yet...]

At what point along the way did such people lose their faculty for independent thinking? Is this thatcher's generation of children? Can it be traced back to her time in power?

What's your kind of work mate? I'm really staggered here. This is worse than anything i've heard thus far.

 

[Fullyplumped]

People in the UK are working longer hours than ever.

No they aren't. I'm no expert but a quick Google - which you could have done - shows that working hours now are much lower than in the past, and the scope for leisure, or idleness, is much greater. As is life expectancy.

 

[rhys gethin]

No they aren't. I'm no expert but a quick Google - which you could have done - shows that working hours now are much lower than in the past, and the scope for leisure, or idleness, is much greater. As is life expectancy.

That's not what they tell ME, or what my experience suggests, but maybe somewhere in the South-East they are into la dolce vita, even if they don't look like it to me, poor buggers. The idleness of children and teenagers - for whom scarcely anything interesting is provided except for money - may perhaps be greater, but the rest of us seem to be sweating blood for sod all worth having. Life expectancy in the sense of what you expect from life is at a pretty low point, I reckon, though they will keep us struldbugging on in homes while there's money in it, doubtless. I think you are well named, Fullyplumped. Keep the mind free of obesity, if you can, however.

 

[slaar]

As for your last comment, if i were you mate i'd do a bit more thinking on that. Although obviously it depends on who you think is benefitting. Coz in the country i live in it certainly ain't the comman man and woman. I know many at the top strata of society are benefitting...

Thailand is not one of the poorest countries in the world.