"Life's What You Make It"

[bluestreak]

ah, the bloody serenity prayer.

it always made me angry until a few weeks into recovery when i finally stopped caring that it was a prayer and started accepting that there are just some things you can't help.

acceptance is very good. believing that you are totally in control of your life is not good, but then nor is believing you have no control.

 

[tastebud]

if you think that life's not what you make it, that you cannot change certain aspects of yr life for the better, then (imvho) yr a bit of a fuckwit. obviously, there are numerous aspects of one's life where forces beyond one's control affect one. however, there are also a large number of aspects of one's life one can change, and changing them improve (or decrease) one's quality of life.

"life's what you make it" is therefore a truism, though (& worse) a cliche. i don't think it's right-wing - it seems to me that it is a reminder that you can be a fucking pinball, bashed about by the tides of life - if you want to be. or you can take control of some aspects of yr life - eg dieting, drinking less, quitting smoking, exercising &c - to improve both yr material and yr mental quality of existence.

if you'd rather be a downtrodden person all yr life, then it's very easy to mock the cliche under discussion. after all, it's easy enough to let other people run yr life - yr boss (or the dole), yr partner, yr mates - many people go through life without ever having an original or interesting thought and without ever even considering reaching out for the stars and trying to attain some better existence. of course, by a better existence i don't necessarily mean a better economick existence, rather a better and more fulfilling life which can be achieved in a variety of ways without having to shit on other people.

well said. much better than i (?) although i do believe i said basically the same thing.
i always worry about people jumping down my throat though...
economick that's a new (/good) one.
anyway it sounds better in its (original??) form: this life is worth living, we can say, since it is what we make it.

 

[maldwyn]

I voted optimistic. Just because my class/education background keeps me on the lower rungs of the social ladder, doesn’t mean I have to be a miserable sod. I exercise my freedom to choose the way I think, without the status anxiety of the Jones’.

 

[girasol]

"Well....Life Is What You Make It."

When what they probably mean is "you're obviously not trying hard enough are you, you c***" is very condrestencenling isn't it?

I had to quote that word as the spelling mistake of the week... Or possibly the 'new word' of the week!

'Life is what you make it'

To me the saying is mainly naive and inane, and I've always perceived it as being related to how we react to events in our lives...

But even that is out of our control, how do you know how you'll react when you find out your bf/gf is cheating on you? Or when someone you love dies? There's only so much control we can have over our emotions...

 

[Dubversion]

if you think that life's not what you make it, that you cannot change certain aspects of yr life for the better, then (imvho) yr a bit of a fuckwit. obviously, there are numerous aspects of one's life where forces beyond one's control affect one. however, there are also a large number of aspects of one's life one can change, and changing them improve (or decrease) one's quality of life.

Where has anyone denied the possibility of changing certain aspects of your life?

the point surely, is that the number of aspects that fall within your reach to change will vary hugely depending on any number of factors, a great deal of which will pre-exist you and be largely out of your control. depending on where you live or your family, you could be constrained by economics, gender, race, education etc etc etc. even being aware of choices available is something that some can take for granted.

people can of course transcend those things but to imply anybody can is a dangerous fiction.

if the phrase was 'life is what you make of the bits you can do something about', it might serve some purpose


id add, pickman's, that you seem to be arguing primarily from the position of someone who has been dealt a fairly good hand in the scheme of things, compared with people elsewhere who may be desperately poor, desperately oppressed etc etc.

 

[MysteryGuest]

However, on a more optimistic note, I would say you should be prepared to be pleasantly surprised at just how much you can change your life by changing your thinking about it (note - not just reacting to it). Consciousness has all manner of structure, of nooks and crannies to it, all manner of hidden processings - if these are kept in good health good things can happen that can feel almost magical (an example of that would be changing attitude so that you network more, or more appropriately, in terms of friendships, meeting like-minded creative people etc).

 

[Dubversion]

However, on a more optimistic note, I would say you should be prepared to be pleasantly surprised at just how much you can change your life by changing your thinking about it (note - not just reacting to it). Consciousness has all manner of structure, of nooks and crannies to it, all manner of hidden processings - if these are kept in good health good things can happen that can feel almost magical (an example of that would be changing attitude so that you network more, or more appropriately, in terms of friendships, meeting like-minded creative people etc).

but you're also arguing from what seems to be the viewpoint of someone in a late capitalist western democracy.

i'm not sure someone scrabbling to survive in the Sudan is thinking about networking or meeting like-minded creative people.

this is precisely my issue with the statement, it just doesn't work outside a very narrow frame of reference.

 

[parallelepipete]

Naïve if applied to your own life; inane/insensitive if applied to others. Completely fails to take account of everyone whose actions have an effect on you.

 

[MysteryGuest]

but you're also arguing from what seems to be the viewpoint of someone in a late capitalist western democracy.

i'm not sure someone scrabbling to survive in the Sudan is thinking about networking or meeting like-minded creative people.

this is precisely my issue with the statement, it just doesn't work outside a very narrow frame of reference.

Why on earth should I argue it from another perspective? It's the appropriate one for where I am right now. Seems like you're trying to make this statement more universal than it is.

 

[Dubversion]

Why on earth should I argue it from another perspective? It's the appropriate one for where I am right now. Seems like you're trying to make this statement more universal than it is.

"life's what you make it" is a fairly universal statement. it's not 'life is what i make it', is it?

 

[tastebud]

the thing with this quote (like many other philosophical quotes) is that it is probably not meant to be sworn by religiously.
it might be positive to occasionally think about (e.g., at times illustrated by pickmans and mysteryguest) but whilst quotes appear all-or-nothing (for effect), of course one has to deviate from all-or-nothing at times, because life isn't a simple, straightforward business.

 

[tastebud]

Why on earth should I argue it from another perspective? It's the appropriate one for where I am right now.

and this was william james' intention. i reckon!
edit: & i am glad you feel that way. shows that the quote can be viewed positively.

 

[girasol]

but you're also arguing from what seems to be the viewpoint of someone in a late capitalist western democracy.

i'm not sure someone scrabbling to survive in the Sudan is thinking about networking or meeting like-minded creative people.

this is precisely my issue with the statement, it just doesn't work outside a very narrow frame of reference.

People who live in poverty are probably the ones who believe in the Life is what you make it philosophy the most, they also use religion/spirituality a lot more as a coping mechanism...

Communites are also a lot stronger and help each other a lot more, so 'networking' is very important.

... But I think we're looking at it from two completely different angles!

 

[goldenecitrone]

but you're also arguing from what seems to be the viewpoint of someone in a late capitalist western democracy.

i'm not sure someone scrabbling to survive in the Sudan is thinking about networking or meeting like-minded creative people.

this is precisely my issue with the statement, it just doesn't work outside a very narrow frame of reference.

How do you know? Maybe Sudanese people are forever shrugging and saying in Sudanese 'Life's what you make it'. On the other hand, they could also be saying 'Life is like a sewer'. Depends which end of the gun barrel they are holding.

 

[Dubversion]

How do you know? Maybe Sudanese people are forever shrugging and saying in Sudanese 'Life's what you make it'. On the other hand, they could also be saying 'Life is like a sewer'. Depends which end of the gun barrel they are holding.

exactly. so again, the implied universality of the phrase is found wanting. the phrase is not 'life is what you make it if you're holding the gun'.

what's happening is that people are qualifying a phrase which IME is always used in a fairly general way to then claim some truth for it. the phrase IME is always used in a sweeping manner, and it is that which sticks in my craw

 

[goldenecitrone]

exactly. so again, the implied universality of the phrase is found wanting. the phrase is not 'life is what you make it if you're holding the gun'.

what's happening is that people are qualifying a phrase which IME is always used in a fairly general way to then claim some truth for it. the phrase IME is always used in a sweeping manner, and it is that which sticks in my craw

It's not a phrase I'd ever say, to be honest, as there are far too many chance occurences to give it any real meaning. A better phrase would be 'Life's what you get due to random packets of energy oscillating at various rates in an everchanging sea of uncertainty and chaos'. Do you think it will catch on?

 

[tastebud]

It's not a phrase I'd ever say, to be honest, as there are far too many chance occurences to give it any real meaning. A better phrase would be 'Life's what you get due to random packets of energy oscillating at various rates in an everchanging sea of uncertainty and chaos'. Do you think it will catch on?

--------
it is sad that the quote is sometimes interpreted in such a -ve fashion, for i believe it was created with the intention to inspire rather than annoy.

 

[goldenecitrone]

--------
it is sad that the quote is sometimes interpreted in such a -ve fashion, for i believe it was created with the intention to inspire rather than annoy.

A bit like the tv programme, Fame. Such good intentions.

 

[Poi E]

the phrase IME is always used in a sweeping manner, and it is that which sticks in my craw

Guess I've been lucky, not taking it as an exhortation that "anything is possible". That would be patently ridiculous.

 

[Dubversion]

Guess I've been lucky, not taking it as an exhortation that "anything is possible". That would be patently ridiculous.

i'm curious, then. do people really hear it used in a much more specific - and thus arguably more meaningful - way? because i've only ever heard it used as a smug platitude with no 'taking everything into account' qualifications implied.

 

[Pickman's model]

id add, pickman's, that you seem to be arguing primarily from the position of someone who has been dealt a fairly good hand in the scheme of things, compared with people elsewhere who may be desperately poor, desperately oppressed etc etc.

i'm arguing from the position of someone who's gaped into the abyss of death and turned my life about, if that's what yr trying to say. i worked fucking hard to get into the position of someone who's now got a fucking chance at a life, and i think i'm entitled to say my piece.

 

[tastebud]

incidentally, i read a little bit of william james prior to starting my degree in psychology (four years ago). life was a bit crap with a lot less direction and meaning than it has for me now and it was probably his inspiring alter your life by altering your attitudes / begin to be now what you will be hereafter kind of philosophy that helped contribute to me going and doing just that.
and i am just your average joe and haven't actually done much at all. yet.

 

[Poi E]

i'm curious, then. do people really hear it used in a much more specific - and thus arguably more meaningful - way? because i've only ever heard it used as a smug platitude with no 'taking everything into account' qualifications implied.

I suppose it comes down to what you read into what people say.

 

[tastebud]

I suppose it comes down to what you read into what people say.

yep!
which could be why those that interpret the quote positively will probably be happier and more fulfilled than those who interpret it negatively. this is not a dig @ you at all dub, btw. i just love this kind of argument as a distraction from the mundanity of education!

 

[sojourner]

i have made a declaration of optimistic intent to do certain things and i intend to achieve exactly what is intended.

You are Bridget Jones and I claim my £5 (did you write that in your diary?)

 

[Doomsy]

I've always understood it to mean that your life is as you choose to percieve it.

 

[tastebud]

You are Bridget Jones and I claim my £5 (did you write that in your diary?)

tw@

 

[sojourner]

tw@

eh?

 

[tastebud]

eh?

i was calling you a twat because you belittled a line from my previous post.
i haven't even read bridget jones!
i merely quoted the words from a previous poster to illustrate my point and relate to it to my current situation.

 

[neilh]

i like the version culture use even if it is a bit hippyish(mebbe its just cos i like the song it's in) - "life is a mirror, reflects on what you do, and if you face it smiling it'll smile right back at you"

i think the major factor in doing well financially and gaining power is probably background, but i don't really think of them as the most important things unless it's at a level where it does have a major impact on health, freedom, and so happiness. i prefer this version as i think it's true that the more you have a positive attitude the more things go well or you take the best from things not going well.