Liberation Shopping

[DaveCinzano]

hey you stole that off xes.

hey you pretty smart for a wee man

 

[In Bloom]

there are ways of doing it so there is little risk and you can plead stupidity/forgetfulness. However, this may work for the conspiculously m/c (or dressed more casual) lifter it won't work for the desperate person who HAS to lift as they will be seen as more likely to be stealing and proabably won't have the money on them to pay on them.

Unfortunately I tend to attract an inordinate ammount of suspicion from security guards (especially considering that I've never shoplifted in my life, I don't feel the need to do it, really).

 

[srbarn]

Borrow.

In the Post Revolutionary Society, I'll return it.

 

[Ryazan]

remember proletarian shopping is illegal & brings the good name of anarchism into disrepute. We'll have not of that round here, this is a local shop for local people.

Anarchists are mainly middle class people playing at poverty, with a mistaken belief that they have solidarity with workling class people. Anarchism hasn't made much of a name for it's self, working class people aren't exactly jumping to it's cause.

Property is theft. Mmmmm.... then stealing from people who can't afford insurance to replace goods taken from them, as happened when some dickhead came into my home and burgled when my mother was only living on benefits with two kids to bring up, yeah that's good.

But I suppose someone could accuse my mother of working on the sly while in receipt of state welfare as being a dickhead, but there is a difference between finding illegal ways of providing better lives for your children and just taking with no regard to the effects it causes on others. That includes middle class lifestyle pretend proles stealing from supermarkets aswell as poor with perhaps drugs needs. The latter from a more dire need to feed their horrible habits, and the former, well, being a little too romantic. A bit of a situation like where George Orwell spoke about setting off an arson attack to get himself arrested and to have the opportunity to write about what it is like to be locked up in prison over Christmas time, and Jack Common retorting that maybe he should do something useful like steal, meaning there are working class people banged up for doing illegal things through need, not for a bit of a lark. The average worker isn't going to think of a Tarquin stealing some creme eggs from Tesco as someone they would want to ally themselves with for improved housing or better bus services to school for their children. A bit of a joke really.

I am not political, I don't trust or like the middle class "revoltionaries" I have met, but if I was to ally myself with people politically, then it wouldn't be with scagheads and blaggers, it would be those who have worked to make positive steps in coping with poverty. Workers. I know some feel that perhaps working class thieves are some kind of proto revoltuionaries, but I am sure some wouldn't be thinking along those lines. They've got more important things to do, like kids, or more selfishly, drug habits to feed.

 

[In Bloom]

Anarchists are mainly middle class

Perhaps one of the most repeated and least backed up statements in modern politics

 

[butchersapron]

What load of self-pitying 1930's tripe Ryazan. 'The average worker' my flat capped, woodbine smoking arse.

If you can't deal in aything but stereotypes or strawmen then please don't bother trying to make a point.

 

[Herbert Read]

Bring on the moral majority

Middle class anarchism love it!

Would you come to mine butch and have some 53 margot best of the season you bring the cheese and we will dicuss prodhorn haw haw old bean

 

[kropotkin]

ryazan, I stopped reading that post after the fourth line. Try again, but this time with an argument based on what people actually think and do please.

 

[Herbert Read]

Property is theft. Mmmmm.... then stealing from people who can't afford insurance to replace goods taken from them, as happened when some dickhead came into my home and burgled when my mother was only living on benefits with two kids to bring up, yeah that's good.

Proudhorn myself and the vast majority of anarchists do not advocate the stealing of property off individuals like your mother, you should do your reading before being so making vast satements.

http://dhm.best.vwh.net/archives/proudhon-property-is-theft.html

We are talking about state property and corporate property. Please for your own sake expand your political horizons before you end up in UKIP

 

[rebel warrior]

Butcher's tripe

One thing I had thought about 'liberating' from shops is dog food, but then I remembered a free supply of 'tripe' can be found on Urban 75...

 

[butchersapron]

What your dog called RW?

 

[LLETSA]

ryazan, I stopped reading that post after the fourth line. Try again, but this time with an argument based on what people actually think and do please.

Who are these 'people' and what, may I ask, do they 'think and do?'

 

[Herbert Read]

One thing I had thought about 'liberating' from shops is dog food, but then I remembered a free supply of 'tripe' can be found on Urban 75...

Did you pick that up from a SWP marxist forum free tripe with the socialist review

 

[rebel warrior]

What your dog called RW?

Sam. It's not just my dog - sort of a family dog. Sorry, thats a rather dull name.

Our family does have a cat called Trotsky - who is 9 years old (which tells you a little bit about my politics).

Any pets, butchers?

 

[LLETSA]

Bring on the moral majority

Middle class anarchism love it!

Is that the sound of capitalism shaking at its foundations?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

What your dog called RW?

that's very restrained...I resisted posting a message which contained the phrase butcher's dog as I thought it might be taken the wrong way...

Cheers - Louis Mac

 

[Herbert Read]

Trotsky the cat you are sick rebel truly sick

Is the cat dogmatic about its politics

 

[LLETSA]

Unfortunately no; it was just wind.

 

[butchersapron]

Well, certainly not what Ryazan posted.

Arguments like his only serve to reduce debate to a battle of strawmen. Not all crime is committed by cartoon junkies with needles sticking out of their arms.

Have you ever been to the sunday market, sse them DVDs and CDs? They're not kosher, see that bloke in the corner of the pub with a bag full of baccy, see those lads with a van full of lager, that bloke with brand new electrical goods - result of commercial burgalry of a wharehouse... and so on.

Let's have debate on theft by all means, but lets's make sure it's not made up of the sort of crap that Ryazan posted, let's make sure it's based on the reality of working class life. Let's have the basic nous to make distinctions between different types of crime.

 

[butchersapron]

Sam. It's not just my dog - sort of a family dog. Sorry, thats a rather dull name.

Our family does have a cat called Trotsky - who is 9 years old (which tells you a little bit about my politics).

Any pets, butchers?

..and not only about your politics.

I had a kitten once but it scratched me so i flushed it. Tells you a bit about my politics.

 

[Thora_v1]

I shoplift, and I don't give an arse what this "working class" allegedly think about it.

And I don't just steal food because I can't afford it. Sometimes I steal decadent fripperies like earrings But there's an obvious difference between shoplifting and stealing from your friends or neighbours etc. I can't believe people actually try to blur the two.

 

[LLETSA]

Proudhorn myself and the vast majority of anarchists do not advocate the stealing of property off individuals like your mother, you should do your reading before being so making vast satements.

http://dhm.best.vwh.net/archives/proudhon-property-is-theft.html

We are talking about state property and corporate property. Please for your own sake expand your political horizons before you end up in UKIP

And the effect of this strategy for bringing capitalism to its knees has so far been what exactly?

And have you or any of your comrades been banged up for it yet? You know, like your average working class rebel-thief frequently is?

 

[rebel warrior]

..and not only abpout your politics.

I had a kitten once but it scratched me so i flushed it. Tells you a lot about my politics.

Inspired by 'The Great Cat Massacre', by print apprentices in 1730s Paris, no doubt [see Robert Darnton]...

Typical petty-bourgeois anarchist - always looking to pre collective working class forms of revolt..

 

[LLETSA]

I shoplift, and I don't give an arse what this "working class" allegedly think about it.

And I don't just steal food because I can't afford it. Sometimes I steal decadent fripperies like earrings

So what? Do mater and pater know?

 

[Herbert Read]

And the effect of this strategy for bringing capitalism to its knees has so far been what exactly?

And have you or any of your comrades been banged up for it yet? You know, like your average working class rebel-thief frequently is?

I have mates at home who have gone to prison for various reasons, i also have comrades who have served time. I personaly have not served time, its not a competition.

The failure of bringing capatalism to its knees can not be laid at the feet of proudhorn and anarchists alone. I am advocating challenging the system in every way you can each to his own means and that.

What point are you making should i live in 'reality' and get with the programme or do i have to do time to prove i am a wevolutionary!

 

[Thora_v1]

So what? Do mater and pater know?

So nothing And no, the parents don't know - it would probably piss them off, so why have an argument when I don't need to?

Now what was your point?

 

[kropotkin]

So what? Do mater and pater know?

Look you little prick- that's quite enough assumptions made about the class background of posters, none of whom have said anything to indicate that they think theft is anything to base revolutionary practice around.

 

[Herbert Read]

Gone quiet LLETSA

Come on you punk make my day

 

[LLETSA]

Well, certainly not what Ryazan posted.

Arguments like his only serve to reduce debate to a battle of strawmen. Not all crime is committed by cartoon junkies with needles sticking out of their arms.

Have you ever been to the sunday market, sse them DVDs and CDs? They're not kosher, see that bloke in the corner of the pub with a bag full of baccy, see those lads with a van full of lager, that bloke with brand new electrical goods - result of commercial burgalry of a wharehouse... and so on.

Let's have debate on theft by all means, but lets's make sure it's not made up of the sort of crap that Ryazan posted, let's make sure it's based on the reality of working class life. Let's have the basic nous to make distinctions between different types of crime.

I still have elderly relatives living in the inner city area where I grew up. Their lives are not made a misery by cartoon junkies but by real life thieving, mugging junkie bastards.

Regarding your points about the black economy, I know exactly what you mean, and I wouldn't condemn those who participate in it when other opportunities are low. As I've already said, I'm very familiar with these types. One thing you notice about it is, though, that these people are, with very few exceptions, in no way critical of the capitalist system. They are into one thing, and that is to grab as much as they can for themselves by means fair or foul. They laugh at the politics of the likes of me, you and most others on this board.

I also know that many people involved in low level crime end up getting caught. Once thet get a few convictions behind them it's very hard to break the cycle.

Should the dwindling numbers of us in the western world who still adhere to forms of progressive politics involve ourselves in romanticising the dead-end, self-centred scally lifestyle? (I'm not saying that you personally are doing this.)

 

[past caring]

Look you little prick- that's quite enough assumptions made about the class background of posters, none of whom have said anything to indicate that they think theft is anything to base revolutionary practice around.

Are we reading the same thread?