Liberation Shopping

[Brainaddict]

When I was stealing more than I do now - for economic reasons - I had some friends look at me as though I might steal from them next - as though I wouldn't be able to work out the moral difference between stealing from tesco and stealing from a friend. That pissed me off.

 

[Herbert Read]

The question must be posed - is this the type of bourgeois household we really wish to visit for tea?

if he has many biscuits than yes, i only drink tea from a tea pot though

 

[butchersapron]

if he has many biscuits than yes, i only drink tea from a tea pot though

I use a nice big mug myself...boom!

Drinking from the tea pot is bit squatty and trangressive.

 

[Herbert Read]

When I was stealing more than I do now - for economic reasons - I had some friends look at me as though I might steal from them next - as though I wouldn't be able to work out the moral difference between stealing from tesco and stealing from a friend. That pissed me off.

That is pretty shitty it makes you want to evaluate your mates though!
Most of my mates from home were twoccers any way so liberation shopping was to moralistc for them

 

[Chuck Wilson]

The question must be posed - is this the type of bourgeois household we really wish to visit for tea?

More of a degenerated workers household really.

 

[Herbert Read]

I use a nice big mug myself...boom!

Drinking from the tea pot is bit squatty and trangressive.

*noted in book will inform mother, punishment will be due*

If my mother could see you know, it would be a rosary for you, heresy just plain heresy.

 

[Herbert Read]

More of a degenerated workers household really.

Has there being a down turn in tea militancy

awaits swp graph to provide evidence

 

[butchersapron]

More of a degenerated workers household really.

Don't get me wrong, in the event of grief with your neighbour i would criticially support you and your household, but i would retain the right to call for a political revolution in your household and demand the right to organise and circulate info to your missus on that basis.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

When I was stealing more than I do now - for economic reasons - I had some friends look at me as though I might steal from them next - as though I wouldn't be able to work out the moral difference between stealing from tesco and stealing from a friend. That pissed me off.

Glad to see someone cutting back on getting something for nothing for 'economic reasons'. I'd watch out in Tesco's apparantly its the SWPs favourite supermarket.

 

[Isambard]

We were on the other week about "supporting local business and shops" as opposed to shopping at Tescburys & Co.

A lot of "family businesses" are MORE exploitative of workers than big chain stores and just as much into profit motive.

I think it was RnB (but I might be wrong) who said they were just an "old" set of class parasites that were now being squeezed as capitalism developed.

But I'd see it as a bit of a grey area.

One of my locals is run by just the landlady and a pensioner who works part time on the quiet shifts so is that really an explotative business? But I've worked in businesses where there were say 10 staff and there it WAS capitalist exploitation.

I was thinking about it over my holiday a bit. How certain politicians always go "think of the small businesses", but it's really playing to a certain section of the electorate. The big businesses don't "vote" as such but they have their high level contacts anyway. No one goes "think of the workers" much do they?


If you drink tea from a pot youre gonna burn your friggin lips aren't ya? More Lapsang Tarquin?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Immediate or phased critical and unconditional support in the event of grief with the neighbours?

 

[butchersapron]

Immediate on here - unconditional on here. When i get a weekend off in reality. If i can get a cheap ticket.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Immediate on here - unconditional on here. When i get a weekend off in reality. If i can get a cheap ticket.

That seems fine , it's all quite quiet at the moment. Although you can never trust Worekrs Power when it comes to the question of other peoples biscuit tins.
On one side is a rather peculiar weedy looking bloke who keeps himself to himself but rents out rooms to other tree hugging type people.He is into Indian Head massage and alternative medicine and insists on collecting snails in a bucket and dumping them in the park across the road.

On the other is the Vets so no trouble there unless we get some animal type liberation folk campaigning for national health service for pets.

I believe Virgin do a fairly cheap standby weekend return to reality so if I were you I would book up now.

 

[Isambard]

.......other peoples biscuit tins.........collecting snails in a bucket

And when you popped round for a cupof herbal he told you they were vegan "crunchy creams" !

 

[LLETSA]

"Thief -a - man, you're just a part of Babylon's plan...."

When I was stealing more than I do now - for economic reasons - I had some friends look at me as though I might steal from them next - as though I wouldn't be able to work out the moral difference between stealing from tesco and stealing from a friend. That pissed me off.

Most of the people I've been acquainted with who have been into nicking from Tesco etc - 'for economic reasons' you understand - have given me great cause to look at them as though they might steal from me. That's because, given half a chance, they would have done.

Maybe I just kept meeting the wrong class of thief.

I hear it's dead dead working class though. Problem is your average working class bloke or woman just doesn't get it....

 

[butchersapron]

Bit presumptive of you there. People nick stuff from work all the time, people outside of waged labour often steal whether out of economic compulsion or the simple desire to do so. To reduce all theft to variants on theiving off your own is not only simplistic - it doesn't reflect the reality of working class life where the 'informal economy' is oftn pretty bloody central to their functioning. None of this moral crap.

 

[WasGeri]

I 'borrowed' some tea bags from somewhere (not saying where) today.

 

[LLETSA]

"Daddy was a bankrobber...."

Bit presumptive of you there. People nick stuff from work all the time, people outside of waged labour often steal whether out of economic compulsion or the simple desire to do so. To reduce all theft to variants on theiving off your own is not only simplistic - it doesn't reflect the reality of working class life where the 'informal economy' is oftn pretty bloody central to their functioning. None of this moral crap.

I agree regarding small - scale pilfering from work etc. Done it myself at times. The ones I'm talking about are those that think they're pursuing some alternative way of living, which never involves those things that the rest of the mugs and clowns they grew up with waste their time doing, like getting up at half six to struggle across town to work and all that kind of divvy behaviour. Why work when you could spend your days stoned after all?

In my experience its not only 'those who nick off their own' that the average working class person has no time for. None of this romanticised crap.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm not romanticising anything - your almost blanket rejection of theft and the attempt to associate other anti-social behaviours with it, and in the name of and behalf of the working class is far closer to that sort of idiotic generalising behaviour - a frankly ridiculous approach to a social phenomena, that like all others, has social roots.

 

[LLETSA]

I'm not romanticising anything - your almost blanket rejection of theft and the attempt to associate other anti-social behaviours with it, and in the name of and behalf of the working class is far closer to that sort of idiotic generalising behaviour - a frankly ridiculous approach to a social phenomena, that like all others, has social roots.

That isn't what I'm doing. Of course theft has social roots. What I am saying is that my experience is that those who indulge in it, no matter what justification they might give it, are not those that I would place the most trust in. I suspect that, among the the working class, I am in the majority (saying this is not the same thing as trying to 'speak for the working class.') We are all affected by the same social conditions - and there are those who might not like all the shit but just get on with things and others who choose to leech off society. The vast majority in either category are not involved in trying to change or overthrow the system, but I think I know the ones I'd prefer to place my faith in if it ever came to the crunch.

 

[butchersapron]

That isn't what I'm doing. Of course theft has social roots. What I am saying is that my experience is that those who indulge in it, no matter what justification they might give it, are not those that I would place the most trust in. I suspect that, among the the working class, I am in the majority (saying this is not the same thing as trying to 'speak for the working class.') We are all affected by the same social conditions - and there are those who might not like all the shit but just get on with things and others who choose to leech off society. The vast majority in either category are not involved in trying to change or overthrow the system, but I think I know the ones I'd prefer to place my faith in if it ever came to the crunch.

Theiveing off Tescos is not 'leaching off society' though - it's thieving off Tesco. The two are different things.

Working clas people respond differently to the conditions they face - some choose to work, some choose to thieve, and that choice doesn't neccesarily involve those that make the latter choice then going onto to deal drugs or rob off your neighbours - there are millions of people who get by off crime without engaging in anti-social behaviour - and frankly, they're the sort of people that i do want when it comes to the crunch - people prepared to put themselves and their body on the line.

I'm not arguing anything other than this be recognised as a fact of working class life - i'm not arguing that we should politically organise around this or make a festish of this behaviour - just that we need to start from current conditions - and denying the central role of theft in a lot of w/c lifes doesn't do this, let's not whitewash the working class with this moral stuff.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

gets me through the day. Up at 5 handing out leaflets at termianl 5 heathrow

respect

 

[butchersapron]

What would he say if anyone else did it though?

 

[LLETSA]

"Break your back to earn your pay, and don't forget to grovel..."

Theiveing off Tescos is not 'leaching off society' though - it's thieving off Tesco. The two are different things.

Working clas people respond differently to the conditions they face - some choose to work, some choose to thieve, and that choice doesn't neccesarily involve those that make the latter choice then going onto to deal drugs or rob off your neighbours - there are millions of people who get by off crime without engaging in anti-social behaviour - and frankly, they're the sort of people that i do want when it comes to the crunch - people prepared to put themselves and their body on the line.

I'm not arguing anything other than this be recognised as a fact of working class life - i'm not arguing that we should politically organise around this or make a festish of this behaviour - just that we need to start from current conditions - and denying the central role of theft in a lot of w/c lifes doesn't do this, let's not whitewash the working class with this moral stuff.

Fair enough; you are right in saying that it's a fact of working class life. I dont think there's anything at all moralistic about what I'm saying though. I'm simply outlining what my own experience has been. And the vast majority of thieves I've ever known have been petty chancers and nothing else. This is particularly the case after the mushrooming of the drug economy. The kind of people I've known who nick from Tesco, or whatever other corporation, have not done it for ideological reasons - they would simply laugh at such an idea (although there are probably some who'd pay cynical lip-service to it if somebody put the notion to them) - but to feed their habit. Furthermore, there seems to be an assumption in this thread that there are strict demarcation lines in crime, where the average shoplifter or petty pilferer would never contemplate participating in other types of crime. This is extremely idealistic. Do these 'pure' shoplifters and so on, who only participate in (debatably) victimless crimes really exist in their millions, as you claim? Few of the ones that I've been acquainted with would have any qualms about nicking from wherever else they could. We've all heard about the smackheads who nick from their own mothers' purses and so on - these are the kind of people I'm on about (not all of them but a good proportion, and it only takes a growing drug dependency to transform a personality), and I would hazard a guess that a majority of shoplifters are to some degree like this, rather than people carving out an alternative career for themselves because they have ideological objections to the capitalist sytem. They might be 'putting their bodies on the line' with what they do, but for one reason only and that is to look after number one. Being of that category of people who wish to have no part in keeping society functioning (is it moralistic to claim that people who do are, generally speaking, made of better stuff than those who opt out?), why would they become selfless revolutionaries if the time ever came? No revolution ever took place where the criminal elements did not, in their majority, remain criminal afterwards and a burden on any attempt to create a new society.

I would say it's a definite that the average working class person compares themselves with your average robber, who in reality differs greatly from the honest thief of romantic rebel legend, and wonders why they bother getting up in the morning and going out to a job that they likely hate. They rightly feel like mugs and nobody can blame them for feeling pissed off about it.

 

[LLETSA]

Having said that it's a fact of working class life there's a danger of implying that only the working class thieve. Nothing could be further from the truth. Corporate bosses and small businesses are often involved in no end of 'victimless' theft (of which tax dodging is only one.) In one firm I worked for the biggest pilferers were not on the shop floor but in the plush offices of middle management.

If theft is a fact of working class life, it's no more so than it is for the middle classes and big business. The only difference is that the rewards are not as great.

 

[In Bloom]

All for nicking from supermarkets myself, though I wouldn't risk it, its not really worth the risk compared to just getting a job, IMO (obviously its different if you can't find work).

 

[Taxamo Welf]

What would he say if anyone else did it though?

something really snide that'd make me laugh?

 

[DaveCinzano]

jesus titty fucking christ!

 

[Taxamo Welf]

All for nicking from supermarkets myself, though I wouldn't risk it, its not really worth the risk compared to just getting a job, IMO (obviously its different if you can't find work).

there are ways of doing it so there is little risk and you can plead stupidity/forgetfulness. However, this may work for the conspiculously m/c (or dressed more casual) lifter it won't work for the desperate person who HAS to lift as they will be seen as more likely to be stealing and proabably won't have the money on them to pay on them.

LLETSA your last point is right. At the moment a lot of my contemporaries are getting part time jobs (just finished school) and so many of them are being paid cash in hand to beat the taxman. Some of them even favour it cos they think they get paid better that way. Now one of them has a chip fat burn from being told to use equipment that a) broke b) she wasn't trained for. She may be scarred. Can she do shit? no. No contract - no rights.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

jesus titty fucking christ!

hey you stole that off xes.