Lib Dem Plan for £1m-Property Tax

[ExtraRefined]

No. We'll just collectivise those

Seriously, I'm for a steeply progressive income tax that doesn't take anything or only say 10% up to £20,000 pa, then ramping up from there to 80% or more for incomes over say £120,000

I'm sure you'll be able to persuade the Labour party of the wisdom of this policy by about June next year. Please do, I want them to be completely unelectable forever

 

[ska invita]

Two problems I see are that first houses are currently hugely under valued for council tax purposes - Labour threatend to update teh valuations, but it would force lots of low income families into the highest tax bracket.

Secondly, some people bought cheap houses in the 70s now worth a million, who may be on low income too - this tax would force them to sell up.

im all up for taxing the rich, but id rather it was done on income tax, and the whole house things was left to rest.

 

[butchersapron]

No it wouldn't it's fuck all - borrow a few grand on your million quid house.

 

[butchersapron]

the whole house things was left to rest.

The 'whole house thing'? Are you sure that's what you meant?

 

[ExtraRefined]

Why hit the wealthy with a one-off Inheritance Tax when a Land Tax means them putting their hands in their pockets every year?

A land tax is effectively a tax on everyone who currently owns land, and won't have a meaningful effect on anyone who dosen't. People who buy land in the future will be buying at less than the price they would in an untaxed market, and the difference will cover the cost of paying the tax forever.

Imposing a 0.5% land value tax is equivalent to the government saying "we now are now stealing 10% of all land in the country, and will rent it back to you at 5% pa - you can never pay down the principle". Your land is now worth 10% less, since you effectively no longer own 10% of it. You can pay the entire tax forever by setting aside 10% of the value, once, in 5% yielding bonds.

 

[weltweit]

Anyhow, this mansion tax is small beer, iirc they say it will generate £1bn which they will promptly give to people on lower incomes in the form of reduced income tax.

So, the mansion tax will not solve the government debt by any means. What else did the Lib Dems announce at their conference, apart from that Labour and the conservatives are evil!

 

[lewislewis]

Having read more than the headline this is actually quite a bizarre and unworkable policy that wouldn't really make a difference.

Their conference seemed to be more about where to make the cuts, rather than scrutinising the con that is the bankers bailout and the lack of sanctions the government leveraged from the financial sector in return for all the taxpayers cash.

 

[The39thStep]

To be put alongside the other Cable-isms ie public sector pay freeze

 

[ExtraRefined]

This is in fact such a bad idea that even the LDs themselves realise it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/2009/09/this_counts_as_a_real_row.html

 

[DotCommunist]

A land tax is effectively a tax on everyone who currently owns land, and won't have a meaningful effect on anyone who dosen't. People who buy land in the future will be buying at less than the price they would in an untaxed market, and the difference will cover the cost of paying the tax forever.

Imposing a 0.5% land value tax is equivalent to the government saying "we now are now stealing 10% of all land in the country, and will rent it back to you at 5% pa - you can never pay down the principle". Your land is now worth 10% less, since you effectively no longer own 10% of it. You can pay the entire tax forever by setting aside 10% of the value, once, in 5% yielding bonds.

technically it all belongs to the Crown anyway iirc.

Anyway, property is theft. You don't sell the ground people walk upon. Etc

 

[ViolentPanda]

A land tax is effectively a tax on everyone who currently owns land, and won't have a meaningful effect on anyone who dosen't.

That's right, which is why I stated a £1 million floor - so that those whose "land holdings" consist of the single property they reside in don't get hit unless (with the usual tabloid-exaggerated exceptions of a few impecunious grannies) they can afford it.

People who buy land in the future will be buying at less than the price they would in an untaxed market, and the difference will cover the cost of paying the tax forever.

And that price fall is a given, an "economic law" so to speak, is it?

Imposing a 0.5% land value tax is equivalent to the government saying "we now are now stealing 10% of all land in the country, and will rent it back to you at 5% pa - you can never pay down the principle". Your land is now worth 10% less, since you effectively no longer own 10% of it. You can pay the entire tax forever by setting aside 10% of the value, once, in 5% yielding bonds.

You're taking an awful lot of things for granted in your "argument", aren't you?

 

[ViolentPanda]

No. We'll just collectivise those

We could tax them in the interim period to collectivisation, you know!

 

[ExtraRefined]

You're taking an awful lot of things for granted in your "argument", aren't you?

It is of course a simplification, and the numbers aren't exactly right, but the essence of the argument is true - a land value tax will predominantly affect current landowners, and is economically equivalent to the government stealing part of their property.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

It is of course a simplification, and the numbers aren't exactly right, but the essence of the argument is true - a land value tax will predominantly affect current landowners, and is economically equivalent to the government stealing part of their property.

Yeah but then, it can be arcued that any form of tax is just legalised theft. And often is.