Liam Fox in sensible announcement shocker!

[gosub]

I think May's competence is hugely overrated. Having a tough no-nonsense image hardly makes you competent (it doesn't even make you tough, though I imagine she is fairly resilient) and neither does making it to the top of the Tory party. She's made some bizarre appointments so far, is plainly waffling on Brexit, and the infighting and counterattacks are starting already. Coasting on a referendum win for her faction and the support of the Tory press is not going to take her far.

Not that this is a bad thing mind.

She was a remainer, like Corbyn.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

She was a remainer, like Corbyn.

Yes, but she's in power because of the Brexit win. Which is a problem for her.

 

[brogdale]

She was a remainer, like Corbyn.

7.5ers?

 

[RedSkin]

no, it's not correct. lots of people who aren't dependent on alcohol might on occasion find themselves inebriated at opening time on a saturday morning. well, dozens anyway.

Yeah but the football hasn't even started yet FFS! Stop personally insulting me you wanker!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, but she's in power because of the Brexit win. Which is a problem for her.

Yep. Seemed a clever move to appoint the Three Brexiteers, but none of them has come up with a damn thing yet.

She was careful to only back Remain within the confines of her cabinet brief, which has left no hostages to fortune. However, bringing back this idiot Fox is looking less clever by the second, unless he's supposed to be the idiot, which he might be but I suspect she wasn't that calculating.

 

[DotCommunist]

how did they not even have a plan for losing? Project Fear so embolden them they thought it might work twice? If that was a general and he'd failed to have his staff work up a second plan of action before an engagement you'd want his resignation. Or the old 'here's a loaded pistol and a bottle of single malt chap. You can still get out of this with honour' *closes study door*

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah but the football hasn't even started yet FFS! Stop personally insulting me you wanker!

Yeh. Don't post pissed in future then

 

[Pickman's model]

Yep. Seemed a clever move to appoint the Three Brexiteers, but none of them has come up with a damn thing yet.

She was careful to only back Remain within the confines of her cabinet brief, which has left no hostages to fortune. However, bringing back this idiot Fox is looking less clever by the second, unless he's supposed to be the idiot, which he might be but I suspect she wasn't that calculating.

Oh I think May set Johnson, Fox and Davis up. And now they're being knocked down.

 

[Pickman's model]

how did they not even have a plan for losing? Project Fear so embolden them they thought it might work twice? If that was a general and he'd failed to have his staff work up a second plan of action before an engagement you'd want his resignation. Or the old 'here's a loaded pistol and a bottle of single malt chap. You can still get out of this with honour' *closes study door*

After Iraq you'd have thought they'd give the afterparty some thought

 

[brogdale]

Stop personally insulting me you wanker!

 

[gosub]

how did they not even have a plan for losing? Project Fear so embolden them they thought it might work twice? If that was a general and he'd failed to have his staff work up a second plan of action before an engagement you'd want his resignation. Or the old 'here's a loaded pistol and a bottle of single malt chap. You can still get out of this with honour' *closes study door*

I can get Cameron's logic, if he lost no way he could be the one doing Brexit, BUT Sir Jeremy Heywood though he had a month of not being distracted by Minsters, should of had the civil service putting some stuff together on the quiet. Hardly silver service

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Oh I think May set Johnson, Fox and Davis up. And now they're being knocked down.

I think she's set them up unless one or more of them comes up with a good solution to this mess (I'm guessing she thought Davis was the most likely to do this - she must be very disappointed so far).

And surely her preferred solution has to be that between them they produce something. Strikes me a something of a 'working towards the Fuhrer' situation (as described by Kershaw) - ie May herself does not involve herself in the details of Brexit, doesn't care particularly what the details are so long as the problem is sorted, and sets these three up against each other to come up with those details.

Problem is, if all three fail, she may well have set them up and be able to blame them and get rid of them, but the problem will remain unsolved.

 

[two sheds]

 

[Pickman's model]

I think she's set them up unless one or more of them comes up with a good solution to this mess (I'm guessing she thought Davis was the most likely to do this - she must be very disappointed so far).

And surely her preferred solution has to be that between them they produce something. Strikes me a something of a 'working towards the Fuhrer' situation (as described by Kershaw) - ie May herself does not involve herself in the details of Brexit, doesn't care particularly what the details are so long as the problem is sorted, and sets these three up against each other to come up with those details.

Problem is, if all three fail, she may well have set them up and be able to blame them and get rid of them, but the problem will remain unsolved.

yeh. but the people who were 'working towards the fuhrer' were frequently more competent than the three stooges.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

yeh. but the people who were 'working towards the fuhrer' were frequently more competent than the three stooges.

Got away with a Godwin's there, I think. The tories: less competent than the Nazis.

 

[Pickman's model]

Got away with a Godwin's there, I think. The tories: less competent than the Nazis.

you can't see johnson negotiating something like the molotov-ribbentrop pact, can you

 

[Casually Red]

I think she's got more authority than Cameron. For a start there's no clear challenger as Johnson has been neutralised. The Euroscepics have got what they've wanted and their leaders have been tasked with delivering it. The triumvirate structure within which they're working will also ensure that they will be in conflict with each other. The Europhiles have the hope that the sceptic Holy Trinity will fuck up the negotiations and we'll end up with a Euro-friendly fudge. Farage has retreated into obscurity so will not be making mischief on the fringes. The silliness that was Gove is gone.

With regard to her personal qualities, she's survived six years as home secretary which suggests that's she's competent. She can appeal to Tory nostalgics who have been hankering for a new Thatcher. She is also clearly positioning herself into that sensible down to earth female leader role, following the model set by Merkell and Sturgeon. The posh boy problem has been solved as thhe party is no longer led by a cabal of depraved and decadent public school yobs, but by a middle-class grammar school educated vicar's daughter.

Any idea why she's brought back Fox out of political disgrace to head this Brexit transition up ? that Atlantic Bridge thing he was involved in ?

 

[Struwwelpeter]

how did they not even have a plan for losing?

And Gove was in the cabinet so he should have known that there was no plan. This indicates either 1. he is incompetent or 2. that he too thought Leave would lose. 1 is certainly true, but I wouldn't mind betting on 2 as well. If the Leavers also thought they'd lose, then there would have been no reason to have a Leave plan.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Any idea why she's brought back Fox out of political disgrace to head this Brexit transition up ? that Atlantic Bridge thing he was involved in ?

He's not heading it. Or at least, it isn't clear who out of the three she's appointed will emerge as leading it. Nominally it is Davis, although officially Johnson outranks him. Even with such meagre competition, Fox comes in third.

Fox is a moron. He's an incompetent moron at that. But he's also a sop to the right of the party, and she had to appoint pro-Brexit people to head brexit. He is also someone who can be made to take a fall at some convenient point. That said, I doubt May is stupid enough not to realise that he's already causing damage with idiocy like this.

 

[Casually Red]

He's not heading it. Or at least, it isn't clear who out of the three she's appointed will emerge as leading it. Nominally it is Davis, although officially Johnson outranks him. Even with such meagre competition, Fox comes in third.

Fox is a moron. He's an incompetent moron at that. But he's also a sop to the right of the party, and she had to appoint pro-Brexit people to head brexit. He is also someone who can be made to take a fall at some convenient point. That said, I doubt May is stupid enough not to realise that he's already causing damage with idiocy like this.

Well the position of trade secretary is going to be pretty central to this business no matter what way you look at it . That Atlantic bridge business is all about low tax for big business, privatising services, deregulation for corporations. All in partnership with that American Legislative exchange council. So plonking Fox square in the middle of this as a negotiator and Trade secretary would indicate he's going to have a big footprint on their future plans outside the EU. It's why that hedge fund pays him. Incompetent as he is.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well the position of trade secretary is going to be pretty central to this business no matter what way you look at it . That Atlantic bridge business is all about low tax for big business, privatising services, deregulation for corporations. All in partnership with that American Legislative exchange council. So plonking Fox square in the middle of this as a negotiator and Trade secretary would indicate he's going to have a big footprint on their future plans outside the EU. It's why that hedge fund pays him.

I agree that that is what he represents. In fact he represents full-square everything bad that could come from brexit. However, 'trade secretary' is one of those slightly nebulous positions. Davis is 'brexit secretary', and so is also in the middle of this wrt negotiating trade deals. Who emerges as the one with influence we shall wait and see.

I do think that Fox's general incompetence may save us from his worst excesses. In fact, I think I'd put money on him being gone within months.

 

[Casually Red]

Cheers .

 

[kebabking]

....I do think that Fox's general incompetence may save us from his worst excesses. In fact, I think I'd put money on him being gone within months.

I'd suggest that the three brexiteers have been appointed to shoot their own foxes - Johnson so his rank incompetence and idiocy can be shown up on the harshest light on the most public stage, and Fox is guaranteed to be both a dismal failure and to be found with his hands in other people's pockets - either looking for money or young men's balls - while Davis is the grown-up amongst the three: May actually wants him to be a success because firstly she wants a success, and secondly that success makes her look good - and if he fails she can hang that failure around his neck and sink the Leave campaign.

I'm firmly of the belief that Johnson has been appointed so he can be sacked..