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Lessons of the Jan Moir internet campaign?

It's a question of personalisation, IMO. To many people, the "Welfare Reform Bill" is an abstract, as is the continual misbehaviour of the DWP and its various appendages, whereas Gateley's death and Moir's calumnies are something that people find more easy to relate to. An attack on Gateley is more personal and more personalisable than an attack on tens of thousands of people at a time.

Me, I've got room in my heart to get angry about as many things as I want to get angry about. I don't have a hierarchy where I don't get angry unless the cause scores X amount of PC points. :)

yes this .. people still find it very hard to deal with complex issues as there is no one target and too many competeing and complcated factors

so saying wasn't the recent Iranian rising twittrer facebook based to an extent??
 
If he had been fisted to death in a Gay night club then yes, its fair game to write about how negative and destructive gay lifestyles are and so on but this was just something that happened behind closed doors and beyond acknowledging how tragic is was that should have been it.

WTF?!!!!
 
I think that it was just a shitty nasty article that even somebody like me, who is never going to win any "Friend to the Gay" awards can baulk at then its plainly obvious that something was very wrong with it.

Essentially it was a private tragedy that could have happened to anybody and him being a bummer should have made no difference to how it was reported.

If he had been fisted to death in a Gay night club then yes, its fair game to write about how negative and destructive gay lifestyles are and so on but this was just something that happened behind closed doors and beyond acknowledging how tragic is was that should have been it.

Wanker
 
I think that there is a real hall of mirrors effect going on with this whole anti-Moir campaign.

It's justified and all that but there is:

a) probably not that many people who give a shit

and

b) a tendency amongst those who do give a shit to exaggerate the reality because it empowers them.
 
Ok this has been fascinating day of 21st century politics .. an offensive ( but hye they write a few of them!) article in the Daily Mail and afaiaa an unprecedented internet campaign arose within hours boosting the issue into the biggest BBC website hits, the most ever complaints to the PCC, advances to the advertisers on that specific webpage asking them to remove ads which they all did, 5000 facebook within a few hours, etc etc etc

so the question is is is this replicable?? was it one of those things that momentarily unites many different peoples and so is not replicable? or is it a model fo the future for many other struggles?

*** this is NOT a thread to discuss said article or said popstar or the daily fail

i think the biggest uniting factor in the world is Boyzone are shit
 
I think that it was just a shitty nasty article that even somebody like me, who is never going to win any "Friend to the Gay" awards can baulk at then its plainly obvious that something was very wrong with it.

Essentially it was a private tragedy that could have happened to anybody and him being a bummer should have made no difference to how it was reported.

If he had been fisted to death in a Gay night club then yes, its fair game to write about how negative and destructive gay lifestyles are and so on but this was just something that happened behind closed doors and beyond acknowledging how tragic is was that should have been it.

Oh, go and drink a bucket of rat's piss
 
yes this .. people still find it very hard to deal with complex issues as there is no one target and too many competeing and complcated factors

so saying wasn't the recent Iranian rising twittrer facebook based to an extent??

Only partly, I'd say, because the "vibe" didn't really take off until the media had referenced facebook and twitter use for at least a day after events took a turn toward insurrection.
 
Tell us more about these negative and destructive gay lifestyles. I am interested :hmm:
Surely you know that the majority of gay males are also paedophiles, take drugs and copulate indiscriminately with one another?
And ejaculate on copies of the bible, of course.
 
Seriously, how the fuck can a thirty-something year old bloke from the UK go through life holding those opinions? You don't even have the excuse of a "repressive" religion like Islam to justify your neandarthal views. Tosser.
 
Seriously, how the fuck can a thirty-something year old bloke from the UK go through life holding those opinions? You don't even have the excuse of a "repressive" religion like Islam to justify your neandarthal views. Tosser.

:D

I particularly don't get how anyone from London can still believe this shit. Rural Yorkshire, perhaps...
 
Seriously, how the fuck can a thirty-something year old bloke from the UK go through life holding those opinions? You don't even have the excuse of a "repressive" religion like Islam to justify your neandarthal views. Tosser.

The words "selfishness" and "stupidity" spring to mind as the main reason he holds those opinions.
 
A presenter on LBC this morning argued homophobia was in decline given the number who protested at moir's article. :rolleyes:
 
The #JanMoir 'online campaign' built on the experience of the past - eg fast-moving situations which utilised Twitter such as #G20 (London and Pittsburgh), the recent #Trafigura/#CarterRuck/#MintonReport injunction-undermining campaign, as well as things like the Dunblane survivors story, which was perhaps more blog & Facebook orientated in its expression.

The tools were out there to create a critical mass of complaining and hostile commenting, to crowdsource research, and to capture the imagination of those on the fringes of or outside the twittersphere.

Already in place were a number of blogs which spend a lot of time dissecting the news media, including Daily Mail Watch, 5CC, The Sun - Tabloid Lies, Bloggerheads, Enemies Of Reason, Obsolete, Paperhouse, Online Journalism Blog etc. When Moir's article was published, the infrastructure was already there for its almost immediate critical dissection. Anton Vowl (EOR) did the job admirably, and his blog entry on it was batted around both the twittersphere and blogosphere very quickly.

Many of those on Twitter who had got involved in the #Trafigura/#CarterRuck issue just the previous day took up this issue too, and the mainstream media, having been receptive to the Twitter aspect of internet users undermining a global corporation and bluechip libel law specialists, took note.

Whilst a number of 'celebrity Twitterers' (Stephen Fry, Graham Linehan etc) certainly had a hand in generating enormous quantities of retweets and sticking a rocket under the #JanMoir hashtag, during the early part of the day I would suggest that it was being driven by 'Twitter veterans'; the quality of #JanMoir tweets by the end of the day (by my own subjective observation) had largely slipped to retweeting the 'celebrity tweets' on the issue.

There was also a somewhat influential Charlie Brooker CIF piece on the Guardian website in the afternoon, which again drove traffic on the issue.

Finally, the #JanMoir 'campaign' did not really require that much effort from 'campaigners', just an expression of concern, disgust or vitriol, perhaps with a hashtag and a retweet or a link to the article or a critique of it. This is in contrast to the start of #Trafigura/#CarterRuck, which involved (a certain amount of) investigation and deduction, or #G20, which used Twitter to run rolling newsfeeds.

Just my tuppence-worth.
 
I remember (not that well) a campaign to do with car charging (maybe?) - cant remember now, but it would mean car owners/drivers would have to fork out. I got a load of emails asking me to sign a petition at no10.gov or whatnot - the result was a petition of 2 million people in a short space of time.

What that tells me, and what this tells me, is people are particularly interested in issues that directly affect their pocket, and issues of celebrity. Nothing too new there then.

When the revolution starts comrades, then maybe ther'll be a lively 'whose first against the wall?' facebook group. In short, the potential of the net to organise is there, but people still only get exercised over black + white, clear cut issues, that are politically shallow and uncontentious.

(Good post DaveCinzano - that sounds right)
 
When the revolution starts comrades, then maybe ther'll be a lively 'whose first against the wall?' facebook group. In short, the potential of the net to organise is there, but people still only get exercised over black + white, clear cut issues, that are politically shallow and uncontentious.


er, when i said that i was shot down a bit...
 
er, when i said that i was shot down a bit...
No you didn't. People took exception to this bollocks:
I personally get more angry about poverty and inequality than the smearing of a dead pop star, however offensive and cruel.

Only someone desperate to be a martyr could think the two comments above are in any way related. You were just on your high moral horse with your nose sniffing the clouds.
 
surely it is because it is 'liberal' issues, identity politics, race, gender, they nearly alway have the biggest import, then again I wonder if folk know that 2200 people signed a pledge to oppose the proposed abolition of DLA after the welfare site, benefits and work did a call out, that is unprecedented for such an issue.

btw, i am not demeaning the actions of people who challenged this article, well, maybe priorities...
Well, sort of. There's a point there, but it's hidden.

I added my tuppence to the complaints over this article. (For the record, I happen to have read it in the paper edition before hearing of the 'campaign'. I make it my business to read a wide selection of papers). I do believe in freedom of speech, (which Moir has, and which she exercised) but I also have freedom of speech, and I used it to challenge Moir's views.

The reason I challenged Moir's views is that I think her article crossed a line into inciting hatred and encouraging discrimination. (Not, incidentally, specifically because she "smeared a dead boy band singer", but because she used his death to make a wider attack on gay people). I think I was right to do so, and I was heartened that many others did also.

I have also challenged articles and reports which tell lies about strikes, which smear the working class, and which misreport on a variety of issues. I think I am right to do that also. (eg: I challenged a Nick Robinson report on the Lindsey refinery, I have challenged the BBC over the Gaza appeal, I have challenged the Telegraph over the Postal dispute and so on...this goes right back to challenging the BBC over Orgreave). It is therefore simplistic to imply that because someone complains about the Moir piece, they have their priorities wrong. It is one 'campaign'.

However, and here's the point lurking, it is true that this is an issue that is far more media-friendly that the Nick Robinson fabrication about the Lindsey dispute. The liberal media - the Guardian, for example - is much more comfortable backing this issue than it is backing class issues.

So, while there is a campaign model here which may give us hope that modern communication methods can be used effectively, that has to be tempered with the reality that there is still a civil society which has to be negotiated and which still has a consensus (a Common Sense, in the Gramscian jargon) that class issues are "old fashioned", "chippy" and so on. In other words, the middle class still enforces an information bottle neck.

However, if asked if I think it is good that I live in a society in which now more than 22, 000 have complained about homophobia in a Daily Mail article ("more complaints in a single weekend than it has had in the past five years"), then I do.
 
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