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Less meat could cut climate costs by $20 trillion (!) until 2050

thing is there can't be any real discussion on this as it's such a polemic people have drawn their battle lines...

i honestly don't think it's a topic which will have any out come other than what i've described above...

and there's so much and so many conflicting bits of informaiton not to mention that the entire planet moving to a predominantly veritarian diet would have as great and impact as animall eating makes it a silly discussion...

just liek there's subjects you wouldn't want to have discussions about with your mum and dad cos it'll end in greif for everone this subject is also one of those topics....

doens't change dannys habit of asking a dylexic if they can read the thread, in faux innocence....
dyslexic or not garf, you can be an utter twat at times, and this thread is one of those times IMO.

that aside, you're also missing the point that this is a discussion that we have to have at some point, whether you like it or not, because if we don't have it then for one thing a fuck of a lot of people are going to starve to death (or arguably already are/have), and for another, we're almost certain to fail to hit any vaguely sensible greenhouse gas targets.

the longer we leave it, the more of a problem it will become, and no amount of you spluttering on about it being a subject that shouldn't be discussed is going to change these facts.

ps if you can read this post then you could equally easily have read the link and discussed it.
 
If all the carnivores killed and ate the vegetarians, to get them out of the way, then the whole world would be a better place.

Yes, I know I'm eating a dead animal. In the vast majority of cases, that's what it was bred for. It had no other purpose in existing except to be cooked and eaten. Deal with it.
 
If all the carnivores killed and ate the vegetarians, to get them out of the way, then the whole world would be a better place.

Yes, I know I'm eating a dead animal. In the vast majority of cases, that's what it was bred for. It had no other purpose in existing except to be cooked and eaten. Deal with it.
I take it you've also not read the article linked to in the OP then...:rolleyes:
 
I'll ask you again do you think it's acceptable to say so someone with dyslexica can you read something?

But he didn't say 'can you read something' did he? No, as well you know he didn't. He said, and I quote...

Or, you could read the thread and find out what's actually been said.

An entirely reasonable suggestion in order that you, or anyone else, might participate in the discussion.
 
dyslexic or not garf, you can be an utter twat at times, and this thread is one of those times IMO.

that aside, you're also missing the point that this is a discussion that we have to have at some point, whether you like it or not, because if we don't have it then for one thing a fuck of a lot of people are going to starve to death (or arguably already are/have), and for another, we're almost certain to fail to hit any vaguely sensible greenhouse gas targets.

the longer we leave it, the more of a problem it will become, and no amount of you spluttering on about it being a subject that shouldn't be discussed is going to change these facts.

ps if you can read this post then you could equally easily have read the link and discussed it.
again with the reading asuption :rolleyes:

someone doesn't agree with your POV so they mustent have read what you read or they'd have come to the same conclusion...

I don't think it's a problem of consumption but of production.

we're designed to be able to eat meat, biologically. the planet isn't designed to sustain cmassive aggricorps which is where the damage is being done...

now is there a debate to be had about if we are consuming too much meat sure we are look at our rate of bowel cancer and one of it's primary causes if we needed any other clue.

I'm not dismissive of the arguments relating to vegitarianism or the need for a reduced consumption of meat i am however convinced that no thread about this is ever going suceed on here because as i said in my inital posts the battle lines are drawn and people all pile in all prolier than thou... on both sides.

none of which has been engauged with by DLR because his only intent was to make further snide discriminatory comments, again...

it's not the first time it's been mentioned to him so it's not come as a suprise. each time tho with wailing and gnashing of teeth he claims he's being hard done by with my reaction yet can't seemingly stop himself like he's got some prince philip syndrome or summit...
 
again with the reading asuption :rolleyes:
if you've read it, then say so, don't start jumping up and down screaming because the big boys are picking on you because you're dyslexic when nobody's doing anything of the sort.

it's just a wee bit difficult having a debate with someone when everything they've posted indicates that they've just jumped in two footed into the debate without having looked at the source material that provoked the discussion, or the discussion that had already been going on.

anyway, to save the thread from further derailing, this'll be my last post on this derail... feel free to have the last word if you must
 
Surely being able to eat meat is one of the things that is central to our culture and worth defending even if it does have a certain cost?

I mean a lot of people like to drink nice wine, or eat ice cream.

Not strictly necessary to existence, potentially harmful to some, but lovely. And there are people who want to stop us being allowed to do so, or to increase prices so only comparatively well off people can do so, all the while saying it's for our own good.

I hope that nobody was offended by my comments above, and that in particular that nobody felt than my remarks portrayed antagonism to any social or cultural or linguistic group that has survived oppression.

For tea tonight, I had corned beef with cherry tomato sandwiches.
 
so, according to this study...

reducing average global meat and poultry consumption to 70 grams beef, and 350 grams chicken and eggs per week would do the following...

release 1/3rd of the land currently used for all agriculture (15 million km2)

reduce global greenhouse gas emissions by 10%

save either $20 trillion or $40 trillion on the cost of reducing greenhouse gas emissions by a similar amount using other methods (2 figures mentioned in the article, not quite sure exactly what they relate to).

***


the land released could then be used either as a carbon sink via reforestation, for arable farming to help feed increasing global populations, to enable us to move entirely into an extensive, much more sustainable form of farming and away from the current energy and resource input hungry intensive farming methods, or to grow large quantities of energy crops... or a mix of all of the above.


now personally I don't really envisage it happening on quite that scale, but I reckon it's useful to actually be able to put the effect of it into figures so that it can be compared with everything else, and a balance can be struck.

it does seem pretty clear though that continuing with the current (western) level of meat eating is simply not an option if we're to really tackle our greenhouse gas emissions, and not have a global food shortage.

I'd be interested in getting the full report if anyone has access to it?
 
Surely being able to eat meat is one of the things that is central to our culture and worth defending even if it does have a certain cost?

I mean a lot of people like to drink nice wine, or eat ice cream.

Not strictly necessary to existence, potentially harmful to some, but lovely. And there are people who want to stop us being allowed to do so, or to increase prices so only comparatively well off people can do so, all the while saying it's for our own good.

I hope that nobody was offended by my comments above, and that in particular that nobody felt than my remarks portrayed antagonism to any social or cultural or linguitic group that has survived oppression.

For tea tonight, I had corned beef with cherry tomato sandwiches.
ffs

the report in the OP doesn't make any mention of stopping people eating meat, what it looks at is the impact of reducing average meat consumption to a more sustainable level.

or do you think that it's really an acceptable long term thing for the poor of the world to starve while their countries best agricultural land is used to produce grains and soya to feed the animals needed to ensure we in the west have the continued right to eat 2 big macs a day if we so choose? (plus all the rest of the arguements from the above report)





*declaration... meat eater
 
Declarations of interests: vegetarian.
_________________________________________________________________


I do think that we can produce food more sustainably. It also - to me - makes sense for countries to produce the types of food in proportion to the ratio of intake which is nutritionally sound.

We need:

* plenty of fruit and veg

* plenty of starchy foods such as rice, bread, pasta, and potatoes

* some protein-rich foods such as meat, fish, eggs and pulses

* some milk and dairy foods

We should therefore produce foods in those quantities, not topload in meat production, as we do now, focusing on certain cuts, and disdaining and therefore wasting, others. We need to get better at using the whole animal.

In fact, although I'm personally a vegetarian, I do think some meat production is sensible, in order to make use of parts of crop that we don't use, and to produce manure.

That's me too.

It's the only way forward, I think. Eating less meat (rather than trying to make everyone go vegan, or continuing with the amount of meat we consume now) just makes sense for the world in general.

Like ice-cream or wine, it's not something that should be partaken of every single day, but that doesn't mean you should never have it.
 
ffs

the report in the OP doesn't make any mention of stopping people eating meat, what it looks at is the impact of reducing average meat consumption to a more sustainable level.

or do you think that it's really an acceptable long term thing for the poor of the world to starve while their countries best agricultural land is used to produce grains and soya to feed the animals needed to ensure we in the west have the continued right to eat 2 big macs a day if we so choose? (plus all the rest of the arguements from the above report)

70g a week? That's one slice of corned beef a week - you might as well ban meat. And this guilt thing won't work with me or anyone else except self-hating humans of the kind that are already vegans who have resolved never to have children. We get to eat well not because of the amount of arable land we have access to but because we have money. I personally don't have any land at all. but I wll have a Morrison's Chicken Korma (£1.09 on special offer) for lunch tomorrow. If we want to even out meat consumption and share the resources of the world more equally we need to find ways to increase people's incomes.
 
70g a week? That's one slice of corned beef a week - you might as well ban meat. And this guilt thing won't work with me or anyone else except self-hating humans of the kind that are already vegans who have resolved never to have children. We get to eat well not because of the amount of arable land we have access to but because we have money. I personally don't have any land at all. but I wll have a Morrison's Chicken Korma (£1.09 on special offer) for lunch tomorrow. If we want to even out meat consumption and share the resources of the world more equally we need to find ways to increase people's incomes.

The link says:

70 grams of beef and 325 grams of chicken and eggs per week

So that's not just a little bit of beef. That's a small beef steak every couple of weeks, plus a chicken breast once a week. Perhaps too little for people in our society to go for now that they're used to eating so much meat, but it's hardly 'banning meat.'
 
I think there are a couple of useful distinctions to be made here.

If we're talking about growing grain to fatten cattle, then it's approx 10 times more energy efficient (and hence less polluting) to use the grain directly to feed people.

There are cases where eating animals is perfectly sensible however (ethical considerations apart) If you're trying to eliminate unnecessary fossil fuel use then animals can play a significant part in cultivation, clearing vegetation, getting value from marginal land, providing fibres, leather, manure and so on. Managed correctly they can do a whole bunch of things that we currently use fossil fuels to do unsustainably.

Hence there's an ecologically optimally efficient approach, depending on geography, which implies some potential for meat production.

The problem with current meat production is that it's not optimised for sustainability, but rather for profitability, which leads to unsustainable practices like growing grain to fatten cattle.
 
So that's not just a little bit of beef. That's a small beef steak every couple of weeks, plus a chicken breast once a week. Perhaps too little for people in our society to go for now that they're used to eating so much meat, but it's hardly 'banning meat.'

It's a puritanically tiny amount. Still, it will leave lots of room for our rations of Filboid Studge.
 
It's a puritanically tiny amount. Still, it will leave lots of room for our rations of Filboid Studge.

It's probably a bit too small an amount now, yeah, but it would still be good to reduce our overall meat consumption. One healthy serving of some of steak or chops per week, plus one other meat product like chicken wings or whatever, plus some of the other bits of animal chopped up into something like sausages once a week - that'd still be less than the average in the Western world now, and wouldn't be depriving people of tasty meat.

Ooh, Saki. *reads*
 
70g a week? That's one slice of corned beef a week - you might as well ban meat. And this guilt thing won't work with me or anyone else except self-hating humans of the kind that are already vegans who have resolved never to have children. We get to eat well not because of the amount of arable land we have access to but because we have money. I personally don't have any land at all. but I wll have a Morrison's Chicken Korma (£1.09 on special offer) for lunch tomorrow. If we want to even out meat consumption and share the resources of the world more equally we need to find ways to increase people's incomes.
firstly, even if everyone had the same income as us, it would still be impossible for everyone to eat the same amount of meat as us because we'd need several planets worth of land to graze the animals on and cultivate the crops to feed them. For example, Europe currently imports 70% of it's animal feed, if everyone was eating the same amount of meat as us there'd be nowhere for us to import that animal feed from, and nowhere for the other countries to also import that animal feed from.

it's not about economics, it's about limits to growth based on the actual available land area of the earth, and what can be grown on it even given unsutainably high levels of resource inputs to the land.

it's also a global tragedy of the commons scenario whereby individualist logic of the kind that you're espousing inevitably pushes production far beyond the carrying capacity of the land until the land can no longer sustain even the level of production (number of cows) that it previously could have done without the huge inputs of fertilisers etc. So short term we may end up being able to produce a bit more meat for a short while, but long term it'll inevitably lead to an overall decrease in the amount of meat (and other produce) that can be produced sustainably generation after generation.

It doesn't have to be that way though, we've got the gift of intelligence and scientific understanding to show us in advance that we're heading for major problems, and give us the time to change our course and make agreements to limit our meat production to truely sustainable levels as part of a sustainable global agricultural mix.

or shall we just carry on burying our heads in the sand defending our right to eat as much meat as we want?
 
and yes, those quantities of meat are possibly too low to be realistic for western countries who're used to much more meat than that, but they're global average figures, and it's likely that the west would continue to eat more meat than other areas of the world for a fair while yet even under this scenario, so to achieve the stated global average figure the actual target for western meat eaters may well be a fair amount higher.

It's also really just a guide figure they've used to be able to attach some values to, so that we can see the impact it would have. Any reduction in meat consumption, and/or move to less carbon/land/energy intensive forms of meat would be beneficial.
 
Anyway, back on track. To pick up on what I was saying in my earlier post, we produce and eat meat wastefully, and (in this country) far in excess of our actual needs. An adequate amount of protein for children is 5 to 6.5 % of total diet, while for adults who are not pregnant or lactating, 3% is enough. (Current UN Food and Agriculture Organization figures).

According to Colin Tudge, there is a world population of 6 billion, and although the total land area of the earth is about 12 billion hectares (giving us 2 hectares or 5 acres each), only around 1.3 billion hectares is now used as arable land, which means we have 0.22 hectares per person (about half an acre). (pp 34-35, So We Shall Reap, 2003).

In rough terms, 0.22 hectares under grain could sustain at least five people. But climate change and human activity is eating into that arable acreage. (According to a recent study, 50% of the world's arable land may be unusable by 2050 because of soil degradation). And, of course, we don't use it all for grain.

In the UK, we produce more than enough meat, and so the logic of the market is that we eat only the prime parts of the animal - fillets, cutlets, steaks - wasting much of the animal.

So, as well are mean protein intake being 15% in the typical Western diet, we in any case over-produce meat, since we use it wastefully. What's more, we don't need to get all our protein from meat.

In 2004, the UK produced 3 270 000 tonnes of meat (FAO -pdf).

It seems to me more sensible, that the UK should produce food in proportion to nutritional requirements - a lot of fruit and veg; a lot of bread, potatoes, grains; a little meat, fish, eggs and pulses; a little milk and dairy foods.
 
*agrees with danny*

tbh I think a lot of the problem in this country is that we've lost the ability to cook properly.

moving on a bit from the meat side of things, we're simply useless as a nation about cooking using seasonal produce, we just buy pretty much the same mix of fruit, veg, meat etc year round meaning that vast swathes of the planet have been given over to ensuring the supermarkets can meet that demand.

between this and our huge appetite for meat, a huge amount of the earths best arable land is now given over to producing for our benefit at the expense of the local population who're forced to use less fertile land, which then degrades faster etc.

stop famine in africa, learn to cook local seasonal produce;)
 
tbh I think a lot of the problem in this country is that we've lost the ability to cook properly.
I agree, although using the verb "lost" disguised what happened: it was stolen from us. To cut a long story short, we have a food industry which has weaned us off raw ingredients and onto processed food.

Allotments have been the butt of many jokes over the years, but there are serious issues at stake; their history, and what they represent, ought to be taken seriously. And not just for history’s sake, but for the difference that could be made to real people’s lives here and now.

It is instructive to see when self-production of food is encouraged, and when it is discouraged. Kropotkin noted (in Fields, Factories and Workshops) that “the British nation does not work on her soil; she is prevented from doing so; and the would-be economists complain that the soil will not nourish its inhabitants!” It was inconvenient (to industry) at the end of the 19th Century to encourage self-production of food, when the industrial revolution had so recently robbed the masses of that ability and forced them into repetitive, and alienating toil. The exodus to the cities was made possible by the enclosures of common land, as land was appropriated by the big landowners, and self-production became less and less possible. But during both World Wars it became imperative to Dig for Victory, and so allotments – a feature of the city rather than the country - were suddenly patriotic.

Many people became inconveniently attached to their allotments, and in many areas had to fight to keep them. They have been strangled by at best a policy of neglect, at worst appropriation for profit, and have dwindled to a very few. In Scotland, a country of 5 million people, there are only around 5, 000 allotments. The conurbations of Glasgow and Edinburgh have little more than half that number between them.

Writing in 1989, Colin Ward noted that allotments have a “symbolic and historical significance as the only enshrinement in law of the ancient and universal belief that every family has a right of access to land for food production” (1). So, to see their perilous state now, despite a recent upsurge in interest, it is all the more important that they are defended, and access to them vastly increased.

From the Diggers of the 17th Century, who dared to cultivate waste land and grow crops, to those who plant, uninvited, in urban spaces, people have sought to take the matter into their own hands. These are people who are acutely aware of the rights that are being denied them. But the beginning of the 21st Century sees mass societies so divorced from the realities of food production that even cooking is becoming a forgotten art, never mind growing a few vegetables.

The processed food generation, according to a recent survey, doesn’t know how long to cook a soft-boiled egg. And why would they, in an age where McDonalds sponsorships infest our children’s schools, and where vegetables pre-prepared ready to stir-fry by Kenyan workers one day are cling-wrapped on the UK’s supermarket shelves the next? Fruit and vegetables that are in season locally are bought in from New Zealand, needlessly burning up kerosene, while local people are denied access, if even they knew it, to soil to grow their own.

The process by which people are robbed even of the knowledge that they have been robbed is subtle today. Noam Chomsky points to the far more open debate in Westminster when the Jamaican slaves rose up in 1831. The costs involved in quelling revolts necessitated shifting from a slave economy to a wage economy. But it was imperative that the basic relationship remained the same. However, the Jamaican slaves wanted to go onto the land, and quit the sugar plantations. So the British capitalists first closed off the land to the former slaves, and secondly realized they “would have to start creating a whole set of wants for them, and make them start desiring things they didn’t then desire, so then the only way they’d be able to satisfy their new material desires would be by working in the British sugar plantations.” (2) This was quite openly discussed. But the same process, now generations down the line, and by now far more subtle, is used for the masses at home. And it has become so successful, that not only do many people not question how far divorced they are from food production, they would think it an imposition if they were suddenly asked to begin growing a few vegetables for the pot.

But the health of individuals, the health of society, and the health of the planet are all at stake here. Peter Marshall writes that “Humans in the West have gone far in leaving the natural world and their natural desires behind them, creating an artificial world of artificial desires. In the process they have depraved their natures and injured nature as a whole.” (3)

The intensive mono-culture habits of agri-business, continually pumping chemicals into the soil, and illogically shipping produce around the world, is creating dust-bowls and despoiling the land. And the food that is most available to most people is low on nutrition and high on profit to the global corporations that have a strangle-hold on food production.

More locally produced, in-season food is a must. But how much better if we can prevent throwing even a little cash into global capitalism’s coffers by growing some of it ourselves! It has been estimated that every pound spent by the conventional leisure gardener on crop production will yield the equivalent of £9-worth of crops at shop prices. That can’t be bad. But the organic gardener can subtract the costs of the conventional gardener’s pesticides and chemicals. And enjoy a healthier vegetable than would be bought, cling-wrapped, in the out-of-town supermarket. The affluent can buy organic, but for many, the best option might be growing their own.


____________________________________________________________

1. Colin Ward, 1989, Welcome Thinner City. London: Bedford Square Press.
2. Noam Chomsky, 2002, Understanding Power. New York: The New Press.
3. Peter Marshall, 2000, Riding the Wind. London: Continuum.
 
*nods*

I reckon we could learn a lot from the way Cuba adjusted to the sudden loss of support from the USSR in the 90's by bringing plots of unused urban land into production / getting people individually and as communities to grow as much of their own food on land in the local community as possible.

maybe we don't need to go to quite that extreme, but opening up more allotments would surely be a sensible move, together with encouraging people to grow their own food in gardens etc.

councils could stop doing what ours did last year as well, coming round chopping all the hedgerows (actually big masses of blackberry bushes) back on the local field just before the blackberries were ready to ripen... fuckers:mad:




all this talk kinda brings to mind the RTS guerilla gardening escapade in 2001 mind:hmm:
 
tbh I think a lot of the problem in this country is that we've lost the ability to cook properly.

moving on a bit from the meat side of things, we're simply useless as a nation about cooking using seasonal produce, we just buy pretty much the same mix of fruit, veg, meat etc year round meaning that vast swathes of the planet have been given over to ensuring the supermarkets can meet that demand.
This is where the 10-1 argument about the energy per calorie between beef and corn. Alot of energy is sunk into foods processing it.
 
I agree, although using the verb "lost" disguised what happened: it was stolen from us. To cut a long story short, we have a food industry which has weaned us off raw ingredients and onto processed food.

Allotments have been the butt of many jokes over the years, but there are serious issues at stake; their history, and what they represent, ought to be taken seriously. And not just for history’s sake, but for the difference that could be made to real people’s lives here and now.

It is instructive to see when self-production of food is encouraged, and when it is discouraged. Kropotkin noted (in Fields, Factories and Workshops) that “the British nation does not work on her soil; she is prevented from doing so; and the would-be economists complain that the soil will not nourish its inhabitants!” It was inconvenient (to industry) at the end of the 19th Century to encourage self-production of food, when the industrial revolution had so recently robbed the masses of that ability and forced them into repetitive, and alienating toil. The exodus to the cities was made possible by the enclosures of common land, as land was appropriated by the big landowners, and self-production became less and less possible. But during both World Wars it became imperative to Dig for Victory, and so allotments – a feature of the city rather than the country - were suddenly patriotic.

Many people became inconveniently attached to their allotments, and in many areas had to fight to keep them. They have been strangled by at best a policy of neglect, at worst appropriation for profit, and have dwindled to a very few. In Scotland, a country of 5 million people, there are only around 5, 000 allotments. The conurbations of Glasgow and Edinburgh have little more than half that number between them.

Writing in 1989, Colin Ward noted that allotments have a “symbolic and historical significance as the only enshrinement in law of the ancient and universal belief that every family has a right of access to land for food production” (1). So, to see their perilous state now, despite a recent upsurge in interest, it is all the more important that they are defended, and access to them vastly increased.

From the Diggers of the 17th Century, who dared to cultivate waste land and grow crops, to those who plant, uninvited, in urban spaces, people have sought to take the matter into their own hands. These are people who are acutely aware of the rights that are being denied them. But the beginning of the 21st Century sees mass societies so divorced from the realities of food production that even cooking is becoming a forgotten art, never mind growing a few vegetables.

The processed food generation, according to a recent survey, doesn’t know how long to cook a soft-boiled egg. And why would they, in an age where McDonalds sponsorships infest our children’s schools, and where vegetables pre-prepared ready to stir-fry by Kenyan workers one day are cling-wrapped on the UK’s supermarket shelves the next? Fruit and vegetables that are in season locally are bought in from New Zealand, needlessly burning up kerosene, while local people are denied access, if even they knew it, to soil to grow their own.

The process by which people are robbed even of the knowledge that they have been robbed is subtle today. Noam Chomsky points to the far more open debate in Westminster when the Jamaican slaves rose up in 1831. The costs involved in quelling revolts necessitated shifting from a slave economy to a wage economy. But it was imperative that the basic relationship remained the same. However, the Jamaican slaves wanted to go onto the land, and quit the sugar plantations. So the British capitalists first closed off the land to the former slaves, and secondly realized they “would have to start creating a whole set of wants for them, and make them start desiring things they didn’t then desire, so then the only way they’d be able to satisfy their new material desires would be by working in the British sugar plantations.” (2) This was quite openly discussed. But the same process, now generations down the line, and by now far more subtle, is used for the masses at home. And it has become so successful, that not only do many people not question how far divorced they are from food production, they would think it an imposition if they were suddenly asked to begin growing a few vegetables for the pot.

But the health of individuals, the health of society, and the health of the planet are all at stake here. Peter Marshall writes that “Humans in the West have gone far in leaving the natural world and their natural desires behind them, creating an artificial world of artificial desires. In the process they have depraved their natures and injured nature as a whole.” (3)

The intensive mono-culture habits of agri-business, continually pumping chemicals into the soil, and illogically shipping produce around the world, is creating dust-bowls and despoiling the land. And the food that is most available to most people is low on nutrition and high on profit to the global corporations that have a strangle-hold on food production.

More locally produced, in-season food is a must. But how much better if we can prevent throwing even a little cash into global capitalism’s coffers by growing some of it ourselves! It has been estimated that every pound spent by the conventional leisure gardener on crop production will yield the equivalent of £9-worth of crops at shop prices. That can’t be bad. But the organic gardener can subtract the costs of the conventional gardener’s pesticides and chemicals. And enjoy a healthier vegetable than would be bought, cling-wrapped, in the out-of-town supermarket. The affluent can buy organic, but for many, the best option might be growing their own.


____________________________________________________________

1. Colin Ward, 1989, Welcome Thinner City. London: Bedford Square Press.
2. Noam Chomsky, 2002, Understanding Power. New York: The New Press.
3. Peter Marshall, 2000, Riding the Wind. London: Continuum.

Blimey. My Post of the Year, so far, of 2009. Thank you! :D
 
I don't know what to say.

I'd like to thank my parents, my friends, that lady I was talking to this afternoon who had a slight Welsh accent, giant Jenga, and the bloke from Time Team who talks about Romans but has a French-sounding name.
 
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