Lebanon army takes on militants

[Peet]

How do you gauge "excessive", though?

I mean, would Dennis Healy's eyebrows preclude him from power, would Jimmy Edwards' handlebar mousatche render him unfit to be trusted, or are we just talking about people who believe their holy book's injunctions against topiary-pruning?

And what about womens' 'taches?

That is for scholars of REAL politics to decide.

 

[CyberRose]

So what's supposed to be wrong with Bernard Lewis?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0411.hirsh.html

You may find this interesting!

 

[ViolentPanda]

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0411.hirsh.html

You may find this interesting!

Yep.

A lot of his earlier stuff is still eminently readable and contained some very good research, he pushed at the boundaries. Much of his later stuff (especially but not exclusively his non-academic works) is infected by his political opinions, though, which is unwelcome when he is touted as an academic authority on his subject.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Because it wasn't necessary to, as I'm sure you know, you poor sad troller.

If you've read the thread (not that I actually give a damn) you'll know that I explain why a few posts on, and that the person who brought Lewis up partially agrees with my explanation.

Which post number?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0411.hirsh.html

You may find this interesting!

It is interesting, but perhaps some of Hirsch's optimism concerning a non-Kemalist solution to islamic societal problems is misguided. Consider what he had to say about Turkey and Erdogan.

"
This may already be happening slowly in Turkey, where the parliament is dominated by the majority Islamic Justice and Development Party. The JDP leader, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan--who was once banned from public service after reciting a poem that said "the mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets, and the faithful our soldiers"--has shown an impressive degree of pragmatism in governing. But again, Turkey is a unique case, made so by Kemal and his secular, military-enforced coup back in the '20s. If Erdogan still secretly wants to re-Islamicize Turkey, he can only go so far in an environment in which the nation's powerful military twitches at every sign of incipient religiosity. Erdogan is also under unique pressure to secularize as Turkey bids to enter the European Union, which is not a card that moderate Arab secularists can hold up to win over their own populations."


Current events are putting the lie to this prediction of his.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yep.

A lot of his earlier stuff is still eminently readable and contained some very good research, he pushed at the boundaries. Much of his later stuff (especially but not exclusively his non-academic works) is infected by his political opinions, though, which is unwelcome when he is touted as an academic authority on his subject.

Not sure what you mean by his political opinions. I read Babel to Dragomans, a relatively recent book, and found it more about scholarship than personal politics.

 

[warren]

Its good to employ a little sarcasm sometimes, otherwise things get too nasty around here.

Cheers

YW. But I am afraid this will probably be my last post here as Ed's finger is hovering over the ban button (this will be only the 62nd time he has used it this week down on a record 483 the week previously).

If that's what you want, I'll be happy to ban you.

Anything to stop this ridiculous pissing about....

 

[moono]

( Sorry to cut across the above, wheedling, irrelevance. )


Peet;

I think the main lesson to be leaned from the middle east is never give power or influence or money to people with excessive facial hair.

Economist tallies swelling cost of Israel to US


By David R. Francis | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.


http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html

 

[ViolentPanda]

Which post number?

Next you'll be asking to have your arse wiped.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not sure what you mean by his political opinions. I read Babel to Dragomans, a relatively recent book, and found it more about scholarship than personal politics.

By "political opinions", oddly enough I mean "political opinions".

Oh, and it's generally seen as bad form to allow historical scholarship to be overtly coloured by one's political preferences.

 

[ViolentPanda]

YW. But I am afraid this will probably be my last post here as Ed's finger is hovering over the ban button (this will be only the 62nd time he has used it this week down on a record 483 the week previously).

Yeah, right. You're being persecuted for speaking the truth.

Or perhaps you're being given a bollocking for posting up dipshit rubbish?

I'm reckoning it's the latter rather than the former, frankly.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

By "political opinions", oddly enough I mean "political opinions".

Oh, and it's generally seen as bad form to allow historical scholarship to be overtly coloured by one's political preferences.

You're talking in circles.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yeah, right. You're being persecuted for speaking the truth.

Or perhaps you're being given a bollocking for posting up dipshit rubbish?

I'm reckoning it's the latter rather than the former, frankly.

Have you read anything by Bernard Lewis?

 

[nino_savatte]

Have you read anything by Bernard Lewis?

Why would anyone want to read anything by Bernard Lewis, if they aren't nutty nationalist Zionists who have a penchant for revisionism and myth-making?

That's a little like saying that just because someone criticises Hitler, they should have read Mein Kampf just to get a 'rounded view'. It's nonsense.

How about you, Johnny? have you ever read any Lewis? If you have, the chances of you reading any texts by authors who have divergent povs are quite probably minimal.

Have you ever read any Chomsky?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Have you read anything by Bernard Lewis?

Yes, thanks. Along with other authors on subjects pertaining to the middle east, Islam, the Ottoman empire, Arabs and Arabism such as Ahmed Rashid, Alain Dieckoff, Suraiya Faroqhi, Robert Dreyfuss, Farid Esack, Aziz Al-Azmeh and Reinhard Schulze (to name the authors of books I can see from my desk). I believe in trying to get as rounded a view as possible.
What about you, do you bother trying to get a rounded view, Johnny?

Anyway, let me guess, next comes "which books by Lewis?", "why did you read them?" and other similarly pointless questions.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You're talking in circles.

Odd how no-one else has complained of that.

Perhaps it's your inability to think in a non-one dimensional way that's the problem?

 

[TomUS]

Looks like Lebanon is determined to crush Fatah Islam & they're getting lots of help.

The United States and Arab allies rushed military aid to Lebanon Friday, boosting its strength ahead of a possible army assault to crush Islamic militants barricaded in a Palestinian refugee camp.

The military was gearing up for a fight, rolling more troops into place around the camp in northern Lebanon, already ringed by hundreds of soldiers backed by artillery and tanks. Fatah Islam has claimed to have over 500 fighters, armed with automatic weapons, mortars and rocket-propelled grenades.

Between late Thursday and early afternoon Friday, five military transport planes landed at Beirut airport, including one from the U.S. Air Force, two from the United Arab Emirates and two from Jordan.

The military refused to comment on the shipments, but media reports said they included ammunition, body armor, helmets and night-vision equipment.

U.S. military officials said Washington would send eight planes of supplies, part of a package that had been agreed on but that the Lebanese government asked to be expedited.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/25/ap/world/main2852768.shtml

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes, thanks. Along with other authors on subjects pertaining to the middle east, Islam, the Ottoman empire, Arabs and Arabism such as Ahmed Rashid, Alain Dieckoff, Suraiya Faroqhi, Robert Dreyfuss, Farid Esack, Aziz Al-Azmeh and Reinhard Schulze (to name the authors of books I can see from my desk). I believe in trying to get as rounded a view as possible.
What about you, do you bother trying to get a rounded view, Johnny?

Anyway, let me guess, next comes "which books by Lewis?", "why did you read them?" and other similarly pointless questions.

No, I haven't read books by those other authors. The truth is, that until recently, I'd read little by what one might call 'source' authors, on middle east matters.

I'm now trying to rectify that, and your list will be of assistance.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Odd how no-one else has complained of that.

Perhaps it's your inability to think in a non-one dimensional way that's the problem?

Or perhaps you're preaching to the choir, except as concerns my case, so no one else would think to bring it up.

 

[moono]

U.S. military officials said Washington would send eight planes of supplies, part of a package that had been agreed on but that the Lebanese government asked to be expedited.

Yummy. It must be Nasrallah's birthday.

Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah on Friday warned the Lebanese government against storming a Palestinian refugee camp where Islamic militants are holed up and criticized U.S. weapons aid to the military in the standoff.

Nasrallah warned that Lebanon risked getting dragged into the United States' war against Al-Qaida, which he said would draw more Islamic militants into the country and potentially destabilize it.

"The problem in the north can be solved politically and through the judiciary in a way that protects the Lebanese army, our Palestinian brothers, the state and peace and stability without transforming Lebanon into a battleground in which we fight Al-Qaida on behalf of the Americans," he said in a televised address.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/863301.html

 

[nino_savatte]

No, I haven't read books by those other authors. The truth is, that until recently, I'd read little by what one might call 'source' authors, on middle east matters.

I'm now trying to rectify that, and your list will be of assistance.

You do surprise me! I mean, knock me down with a feather, you don't read books by other authors.

I've never read any Lewis but I have read some Coulter and Hannity. What awful reads they were too!

 

[warren]

Yeah, right. You're being persecuted for speaking the truth.

Or perhaps you're being given a bollocking for posting up dipshit rubbish?

I'm reckoning it's the latter rather than the former, frankly.

It's neither I requested to Lord Editor king of Urban75, that I should be banned. This bring peace and tranquility back to this forum.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No, I haven't read books by those other authors. The truth is, that until recently, I'd read little by what one might call 'source' authors, on middle east matters.

I'm now trying to rectify that, and your list will be of assistance.

Ahmed Rashid's books "Taliban: Islam, Oil and the Great Game in Central Asia" and "Jihad: The Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia" are very widely-read for an insight into contemporary Islam. No speculation, just lots of facts.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You do surprise me! I mean, knock me down with a feather, you don't read books by other authors.

I've never read any Lewis but I have read some Coulter and Hannity. What awful reads they were too!

As I've said, some of Lewis's stuff, especially the earlier academic material is good. It's solid scholarship. For me he fell down as an academician when he started passing judgement on the people and events he was writing about.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's neither I requested to Lord Editor king of Urban75, that I should be banned. This bring peace and tranquility back to this forum.

Don't flatter yourself and your irritant effect.

 

[nino_savatte]

As I've said, some of Lewis's stuff, especially the earlier academic material is good. It's solid scholarship. For me he fell down as an academician when he started passing judgement on the people and events he was writing about.

I'm sure his prose style pisses all over Hannity's (not that difficult really). Is there any work in particular that you'd recommend?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm sure his prose style pisses all over Hannity's (not that difficult really). Is there any work in particular that you'd recommend?

"The Arabs in History" is a good "primer" imho, and I like "The Assassins: A Radical Sect in Islam" even if his contention that the old man of the mountain was the first person to use a religious movement to engineer political change through murder has been challenged by plenty of scolars of early dynastic China. I don't mind "Islam in History" either, although his hard-on for secularisation is on display.
The stuff of his that I've read that I'd avoid reading again except for reference is mostly his post 11th september stuff, and the essay compilations published in the '90s that draw together his opinion pieces for political journals.

 

[nino_savatte]

"The Arabs in History" is a good "primer" imho, and I like "The Assassins: A Radical Sect in Islam" even if his contention that the old man of the mountain was the first person to use a religious movement to engineer political change through murder has been challenged by plenty of scolars of early dynastic China. I don't mind "Islam in History" either, although his hard-on for secularisation is on display.
The stuff of his that I've read that I'd avoid reading again except for reference is mostly his post 11th september stuff, and the essay compilations published in the '90s that draw together his opinion pieces for political journals.

Ta for that.

 

[moono]

warren;

It's neither I requested to Lord Editor king of Urban75, that I should be banned. This bring peace and tranquility back to this forum.

Bravo. Don't forget to leave your organs to a Zionist hemorrhoid sufferer.

 

[nino_savatte]

warren;


Bravo. Don't forget to leave your organs to a Zionist hemorrhoid sufferer.

LOL!!!!