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Lean burn petrol engine - combustion engine of the future?

Discussion in 'science, nature and environment' started by HAL9000, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Lasting Damage

    Lean burn petrol engine, combustion engine of the future? I think the combustion engine will be around a long time before being replaced with something else, article in the economist suggests that 11% of new cars sold in 2025 will be electric.


    https://www.economist.com/news/busi...rm-gain-electric-cars-are-set-arrive-far-more

    Mazda lean burn petrol engine

    Mazda makes gasoline engines as efficient as diesel | NextBigFuture.com

    Perhaps an engine like this might be used in a serial hybrid, have the engine running at constant speed to drive a generator, wheels connected to electric motors and batteries cope with power surges like accelerating or hill climbing. Since the engine has a small power range, driving a generator at constant speed could be one solution.
     
  2. coley

    coley Well-Known Member

    Tesla, and now VW have decided the fate of the ICE, its doomed, and in a much shorter time scale than even the most optimistic environmentalist could have imagined even a couple of years ago;)
    Ditto green energy, today's CfD have introduced electricity from offshore wind farms at half the price of Hinckley.
     
    Badgers and innit like this.
  3. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    Until they address the infrastructure problems the electric car is still going to be pretty niche.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  4. UnderAnOpenSky

    UnderAnOpenSky baseline neural therapy

    China have also announced they would like to see a change over. That's a lot of resources to throw at the problem and a huge couple to figure out things like infrastructure.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  5. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Lasting Damage

    If it goes fully electric that would be fine with me but........

    • Charging is not the same as filling up with petrol, Tesla car drivers are encouraged to only charge to 80% most of the time and use of super charging should be limited, this is to maximize battery life.
    https://www.quora.com/How-often-do-...-your-battery-degrade-if-you-charge-it-to-100

    • Second hand market? Assuming people still buy second hand cars in the future, what's the current market like and can buyers be confident how long the battery will last? (I assume if the battery is dead and out of warranty the car is not worth very much)
     
  6. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    bemused and Badgers like this.
  7. EastEnder

    EastEnder Brixton Barnacle

    The rise of green energy is to be lauded, however the economics of power generation have to be balanced by the practicality. Nuclear is shit in so many ways, but it's still got the advantage in terms of "always on", once fired up they can provide stable base load power generation in a way that wind can't. And hydro is still the best way of providing immediate bursts of extra power to plugs gaps in delivery. The green technologies need more investment in ways of storing power - proper large scale storage, not just banks of batteries - which are expensive, environmentally damaging, have limited lifespans & poor energy density. What we really need is a massive program of building reservoirs in areas of high elevation with hydro plants lower down, so we can use green power when it's available to pump water up hill, then release it to generate power when the wind dies - the ultimate green battery!
     
  8. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    They have some very pragmatic views on EV adoption. Whilst car companies will invest in developing it, the State is going to have to find a way to fund the infrastructure upgrades.
     
  9. UnderAnOpenSky

    UnderAnOpenSky baseline neural therapy

    That's far from green though. The damage to upland habitats would be immense, especially on the scale you are talking.
     
  10. EastEnder

    EastEnder Brixton Barnacle

    Name me a solution that doesn't have an environmental impact?
     
    NoXion likes this.
  11. Idaho

    Idaho blah blah blah

    [​IMG]
     
  12. UnderAnOpenSky

    UnderAnOpenSky baseline neural therapy

    There isn't, but as they go thats certainly not green. China has done devastation with some of its projects on the Yangze river and flooding the uplands of Scotland and Wales would me a massive shame.
     
  13. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    Broomsticks.
     
  14. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    I think it's more than simply funding, there's a real capacity issue. If all 30 million or so cars become electric the charging infrastructure will need to support peak demand, whichever Bank Holiday that is, just as the petrol delivery system can now. That might be an extra 18GW on top of the current 50GW or so peak demand. That's not only a lot of offshore turbines and panels on rooftops, it's also a great many streets needing to be dug up in order to lay more copper cable to eg lampposts, carparks, service stations etc.

    There are unexploited reserves of copper but I question whether they are sufficient, and obtainable within the timeframe, to allow EVs to replace ICE all around the world on top of existing demand.
    upload_2017-9-14_9-51-33.png

    As for pumped storage, huge concrete engineering projects are so last millenium (if for no other reason than that the world is running out of sand), so the kool kats have moved on to 'energy storage flow machines' according to R4 Costing the Earth "Battery Powered Britain", which is worth a listen. But no, I have no idea how much vanadium there is nor what the environmental impacts of extraction, conversion, use or eventual disposal are :)
     
  15. Idaho

    Idaho blah blah blah

    If the vanadium flow batteries live up to expectations, then the idea of peak demand will shift dramatically. We'll reduce energy production by a big chunk.
     
  16. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    reducing consumption
     
    Idaho likes this.
  17. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    indeed. Everything is speculative but my main point was about peak consumer demand. We may no longer all put the kettle on during Coronation Street but we do all like to travel at August Bank Holiday, Xmas, Easter etc..

    My frantic googling tells me that current world production of vanadium is 80,000 tonnes, that it's essentially a byproduct of other mining and that there's potentially a lot of it, but whether that means that flow battery consumption can scale to whole world usage in the timeframes necessary is another matter.
     
    Idaho likes this.

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