latest opera out and it's a corker

[dogmatique]

Joel writes a good piece on this.

Good article. I think we're stuck here:

Mmhmm. All you smug idealists are laughing at this newbie/idjit. The consumer is not an idiot. She’s your wife. So stop laughing. 98% of the world will install IE8 and say, “It has bugs and I can’t see my sites.” They don’t give a flicking flick about your stupid religious enthusiasm for making web browsers which conform to some mythical, platonic “standard” that is not actually implemented anywhere. They don’t want to hear your stories about messy hacks. They want web browsers that work with actual web sites.

So you see, we have a terrific example here of a gigantic rift between two camps.

The web standards camp seems kind of Trotskyist. You’d think they’re the left wing, but if you happened to make a website that claims to conform to web standards but doesn’t, the idealists turn into Joe Arpaio, America’s Toughest Sheriff. “YOU MADE A MISTAKE AND YOUR WEBSITE SHOULD BREAK. I don’t care if 80% of your websites stop working. I’ll put you all in jail, where you will wear pink pajamas and eat 15 cent sandwiches and work on a chain gang. And I don’t care if the whole county is in jail. The law is the law.”

Though I wouldn't describe myself as a wife, I'm sure Garf would happily apply the newbie/idjit handle.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Good article. I think we're stuck here:



Though I wouldn't describe myself as a wife, I'm sure Garf would happily apply the newbie/idjit handle.

no.

but i would say that the writer is an idiot.

not ahereing to standards isn't going to get sites which render in all browsers the same way it will only decrease the number of sites which will work with them it's perfectly obivous.

and there's no corperate reason why any commercial site shouldn't look the same in any browser.

what the wrtier assumes in their piece is that everyone in the world has the same set up as them they don't. It's simple marketing logic that you'd never exclude one part of your potential business by preventing them from seeing your goods. for your personal website it's fine but there's no good commercial reason too.

I think that most people are going to be really really pissed off when ie8 comes out as they have spent years having to ignore standards in order for things to work in ie6 which was god awrful and then realising their hacks didn't work in ie7 and had to recode their site but still having to bodge it for the god arwful browser and now they are gong to have to redo them again to work in ie8, which still isn't compliant.

not to mention that behind the scenes M$ have been ferverishly slaving away deliberately ignoring w3c standardiseation and attempting to force their own standardisation via their buggy unsafe browser.

also i'm not sure that revelling in ignoreance or celebrating it is a particularlly good personality trait overall...

 

[DJWrongspeed]

back to Opera for a moment. I'm running it on OS X and it looks shit hot, very fast. A real step forward in my opinion.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's a reasonable app now on OS X, though a lot of the skins just do not work with the UI.

I took a surf around to compare the speed to Safari and it's not notably faster to my mind, though not slower. The sync worked between my PC and the Mac which is an advantage.

I thought it had broken on the Shell home page, but then I realised that the Shell home page is just shit.

 

[kained&able]

Mmhmm. All you smug idealists are laughing at this newbie/idjit. The consumer is not an idiot. She’s your wife. So stop laughing. 98% of the world will install IE8 and say, “It has bugs and I can’t see my sites.” They don’t give a flicking flick about your stupid religious enthusiasm for making web browsers which conform to some mythical, platonic “standard” that is not actually implemented anywhere. They don’t want to hear your stories about messy hacks. They want web browsers that work with actual web sites.

Mythical ummm no i can even provide to a link to them! http://www.w3.org/Consortium/

seems pretty official look theres even a picture of al gore inventor of the world wide web on there!

Secondly if browsers conformed to these "mythical" standards we could all right code that works well and doesn't require hacks beacuse bloody ie doen't recognise certain tags and all sorts of useful thing and consumers would have browsers that work with actually web sites permenently.

That would be nice.

dave

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I tell you what, it's good on the Eee. As you might expect.

 

[dodgepot]

i like it, seems to be much quicker than firefox.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's _way_ quicker on the Eee than Firefox, and crashes less oddly enough - also, they've fixed the problems that the mail client had with IMAP that were in earlier versions, and it's now absolutely fine with it. The syncing is good too, I can have my bookmarks and notes and personal bar the same on every machine and even my phone potentially. I'm impressed with this version to be honest. Even if the Mac UI is not as native as it could be.

 

[DG55]

Opera on Mac looks like a fucking arse, not sure what people are on about.

Not sure about PC.

 

[lobster]

Altering your fonts in Opera for OS X

If you are having difficulties seeing or reading on-screen fonts (e.g. Tahoma or Monotype Corsiva), you may wish to alter the fonts displayed. .....

found it amusing to be on the HM Revenue & Customs website
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/accessibility/font-opera-osx.htm

 

[Flashman]

Smooth motherfucker ain't it.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Uninstalled it, it wasn't much faster than FF, and some pages don't show right in it, roll on FF3!