Last stop for the Routemaster :(

[Callie]

But presumably there's nothing, apart from costs, stopping TFL from putting a conductor on any other kind of bus.

That and the fact that theyve now made all the conductors redundant or employed them elsewhere and that theyve no need for them.

 

[Orang Utan]

Why is it sad?
Routemasters are shit - good riddance to them - they were dangerous, uncomfortable and impossible to get on and off when crowded.
Try using one if you're old and frail, or if you have a pram, in fact, if you are a typical user of buses.

 

[cockneyrebel]

And there's nothing stopping them, apart from costs, making the routemasters more usable for the disabled.....

But the fact of the matter is TfL aren't gonna put conductors on the other buses, so the last buses with conductors on, which made a lot of people feel safe, are now gone.

 

[hendo]

Am I right in saying the new design of buses can actually lower themselves at the kerb to allow disabled access?

 

[Orang Utan]

And there's nothing stopping them, apart from costs, making the routemasters more usable for the disabled.....

They weren't adaptable though - how do you make a Routemaster accessible for a wheelchair/pushchair?

 

[cockneyrebel]

Try using one if you're old and frail, or if you have a pram, in fact, if you are a typical user of buses.

A lot of older people like the routemaster because it had a conductor on board who could help them out. The same goes with prams.

I use buses all the time and I'm gutted they're gone....

 

[Callie]

Yeah its great that having a conductor on a bus makes passengers feel safe but I wonder how many conductors felt safe themselves? I mean would you if you had to confront passengers on a daily basis.

 

[cockneyrebel]

They weren't adaptable though - how do you make a Routemaster accessible for a wheelchair/pushchair?

Q-Masters, as said above.....

 

[Callie]

Am I right in saying the new design of buses can actually lower themselves at the kerb to allow disabled access?

When did you last travel on a bus? Theyve been doing this for ages!

 

[cockneyrebel]

Yeah its great that having a conductor on a bus makes passengers feel safe but I wonder how many conductors felt safe themselves? I mean would you if you had to confront passengers on a daily basis.

I agree. But by that logic you might as well get rid of any remaining station guards as well......

 

[Orang Utan]

A lot of older people like the routemaster because it had a conductor on board who could help them out. The same goes with prams.

You still can't get on a Routmester with a wheelchair

 

[Orang Utan]

Q-Masters, as said above.....

That's a new bus, not an adaptation.
The buses that are used now still sound like a more practical option.

 

[cockneyrebel]

You still can't get on a Routmester with a wheelchair

They could have made Q-Masters.....

But as said, there were pros and cons. Now they've got rid of the last buses with conductors on them which were really appreciated by a lot of old people, women travelling at night, blind people etc etc

 

[hendo]

When did you last travel on a bus? Theyve been doing this for ages!

Funnily enough, yesterday, though I've never been on one that's done the lowering thing.

My view of this has been coloured by helping to make a film about disabled access to public transport, or rather, the scandalous lack of it. Brixton's lift for the tube is still not sorted, for example.

I think public transport should be just that, not just for the able bodied.

 

[Bob]

Funnily enough, yesterday, though I've never been on one that's done the lowering thing.

My view of this has been coloured by helping to make a film about disabled access to public transport, or rather, the scandalous lack of it. Brixton's lift for the tube is still not sorted, for example.

I think public transport should be just that, not just for the able bodied.

Which is why having a new routemaster - which is both disabled friendly and has an open back would be a good idea. Best of both worlds - plus huge time savings for people because they can hop on and off. There would be some cost but London has a huge bus fleet and the savings in travellers time would be huge.

(With my economists hat on I'd reckon maybe a few minutes a day for maybe a quarter of the 5 million bus journesy each day. Valuing time at £5 an hour - low in my opinion - this would save £200,000 of people's time a day if all buses were hop on and off = £70m a year)

I bet you've been on one before that does the lowering thing - they only do it on request so you only see it when a wheelchair user or somebody with arthritis or something asks.

 

[editor]

What's the chance of these new bendy buses still being in service and loved by the public in fifty years?

Big fat zero, if you ask me.

 

[William of Walworth]

You'll all be teary-eyed over the last bendy bus in a few decades...

Rubbish.

Anyone fearing the arrival of bendies in Brixton, can be (slightly) reassured by the fact that the 159 is being replaced by normal (new) double deckers

 

[netbob]

Bendy busses are like traveling in a vacuum cleaner hose.

 

[William of Walworth]

Funnily enough, yesterday, though I've never been on one that's done the lowering thing.

My view of this has been coloured by helping to make a film about disabled access to public transport, or rather, the scandalous lack of it. Brixton's lift for the tube is still not sorted, for example.

I think public transport should be just that, not just for the able bodied.

We've done all this before in other RM threads, but hendo, do you SERIOUSLY think that the REAL reason for the abolition of the Routemaster was accessibility for disabled people?

 

[Roadkill]

It's sad to think that, by the time I next come to London, there'll be no more of these on the streets - or only a few, confined to 'heritage routes.' I'd have liked to have amde it down for the farewell aprty, or today, to watch the last ones at work.

They'll be missed.

RIP RM.

 

[hendo]

We've done all this before in other RM threads, but hendo, do you SERIOUSLY think that the REAL reason for the abolition of the Routemaster was accessibility for disabled people?

On reflection, no. I'm just trying to find a silver lining.

 

[miss minnie]

We've done all this before in other RM threads, but hendo, do you SERIOUSLY think that the REAL reason for the abolition of the Routemaster was accessibility for disabled people?

so what is the real reason then?

i would guess the cost of maintaining such an old fleet. living next to a bus stop on the brixton road, as i do, i have a view that regularly includes a routemaster with a seat propped up behind it to indicate a breakdown.

 

[dogmatique]

Number of Routemasters to have caught fire due to mechanical failure 1954 - 2005: 2

Number of Bendy Buses to have caught fire due to mechanical failure 2003 - 2005: 7

 

[Orang Utan]

Indeed, they were so old - I bet they cost a lot to maintain. People need to ditch the misty-eyed nostalgia and realise that Routemasters were dinosaurs and desperately needed to be replaced if we were going to be serious about making transport available for all.

 

[Roadkill]

Indeed, they were so old - I bet they cost a lot to maintain. People need to ditch the misty-eyed nostalgia and realise that Routemasters were dinosaurs and desperately needed to be replaced if we were going to be serious about making transport available for all.

Aside from the issue of disabled access, I simply don't think that's true.

Firstly, you Londoners are spoilt with decent buses ( ). Round here, most buses are more than 10 years old and few have disabled access. against the, the RM doesn't show up too badly. Indeed, a few of them were purchased for service in Hull in the early '90s, although they're gone now.

AFAIk they're not expensive to maintain. They're more fuel-efficient than a lot of modern buses since they're relatively light and aerodynamic, and their reliability record is good. Moreover, the simple front-engined layout makes servicing very easy. I remember seeing a programme some years ago in which it was stated that an engine change on a Routemaster takes under a day: on a modern rear-engined bus it takes more like three days.

Nor do they pump out more in the way of black smoke and fumes than other buses, as some people suggest: all of the surviving ones were re-engined a few years ago - not for the first time - with modern, clean-burn engines.

Yes, they're old-fashioned but they still have their advantages, and they're something of an institution. I'm sorry they're gone.

 

[boohoo]

Indeed, they were so old - I bet they cost a lot to maintain. People need to ditch the misty-eyed nostalgia and realise that Routemasters were dinosaurs and desperately needed to be replaced if we were going to be serious about making transport available for all.

Although the routemasters weren't perfect - lots of school kids all trying to get through the bus's tiny entrance/exit at the same time springs to mind - but the bendy buses aren't that great. They are very slow and take up alot of space on the roads - alot of vehicles won't let them pull out. The bendies can't really overtake other buses as they're too long. Difficult for pedestrians to get past if the bus decides to stop over a crossing. The bendy bit of the bus is rather dangerous on turns - your feet go one way, and whatever you are holding onto goes the other.

I can probably list the faults of the routemaster too.....

 

[cockneyrebel]

A poll I saw on a news programme a short while ago showed the big majority of Londoners didn't want to see them go.

Yes there is the issue of disable access but there is also the issue of conductors making them better for the elderly, women at night, blind people etc And the Q-Master could have solved the disabled issue in the long run. You can't just dismiss the love of these buses that most Londoners have, even if it is misty eyed to you.

But this goes hand in hand with a demise in services for working class people in the past 20 years. When I was a kid about 20 years back you had conductors on all the buses, guards on trains and on the stations, caretakers (both on estates and in schools), park keepers etc etc now you have none of those and it harms communities in a big way IMO. On top of that you didn't have to pay for prescriptions, dental care, eye tests....

And now they're saying the pension ages is gonna go up to 69......a lot of things have definately got worse for the working class in the last 20 years......

 

[William of Walworth]

so what is the real reason then?

i would guess the cost of maintaining such an old fleet. living next to a bus stop on the brixton road, as i do, i have a view that regularly includes a routemaster with a seat propped up behind it to indicate a breakdown.

Dogmatique's answered the qurestion re breakdowns, they were less frequent than people think.

I imagine that if they were breaking down more frequently recently, it would be because the tail end of the 159 fleet looked terribly undermaintained, in preparation for retirement/sell off presumably.

The real reason was to save money, largely by sacking conductors.

The RMs were reaching the end of their natural life true, but I'd doubt to the extent that a full engine and interior refurb wouldn't have sorted them out for a few more years, pending (in an ideal parallel universe) the design of a replacement New RM, analagous to the new taxis. If Transport for London (or the bus companies??) had not been so stingy, they would have commissioned the new version of the RM, the QRM, designed by a team led by Colin Curtis (original Routemaster engineer).


Sadly I can't find any information about the QRM on the web
I've never seen a picture, but apparantly those new QRMs were fully accessible.

When I have time, I'll find my old rant about how, in Travis Elsborough's book, the RMs demise is attributed in part to some Yank tourist lawyer-chasing tosser falling off a bus in Putney and sueing TfL for over £2 million quid .... successfully!

They feared furrther actions.

 

[William of Walworth]

Q-Master!!

<off to attempt a Google>

<edit to add> ARSE!! Utter failure ...

 

[Stobart Stopper]

I fell of a number 58 Routemaster once, 1980 it was.