Landmarks in working class history

[Spion]

The October Revolution

The German Revolution

 

[Spion]

The Spanish revolution

 

[Idris2002]

The West Virginia Mine Wars.

 

[belboid]

1908 - New Zealand Blackball Crib Time Strike

1919 - Hungarian Soviet republic

1934 - Minnesota Teamsters Strike

1950 - founding of the Socialist Review Group

 

[belboid]

1300-1200 BC (ish) - workers on the royal necropolis of Pharaoh Ramses III in ancient Egypt organized the first known strike in history.

 

[danny la rouge]

1300-1200 BC (ish) - workers of the royal necropolis organized the first known strike in history.

Ooh, good one. Where?

 

[belboid]

good point, added!

 

[danny la rouge]

I guessed Egypt, but didn't know. Excellent choice, though.

 

[belboid]

Excellent google, though.

corrected for you

 

[Gmart]

Twat.

Anyone with taste would prefer Marianne Faithfull's version, the way she pronounces 'class' to rhyme with 'arse' is what makes it so fucking perfect.

I disagree - her cover is close to the original, but a bit twee for me

Lennon's original is just great, bit dramatic tho...:

There's room at the top they are telling you still,
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

Egyptian link was good, the pharoahs used to build things to occupy their people and this stimulated the economy in a way we would describe as Keynesian now.

How little has changed...

 

[newbie]

1989 Abbey National Building Society de-mutualises as the working class voluntarily starts to hand over their greatest assets to the 'market'


A decade or so later sees the start of a struggle to build a new breed of Credit Unions, mostly small and impoverished.

 

[soulman]

Foundation of the Rochdale Society of Equitable Pioneers in 1844 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative

 

[newbie]

I hadn't realised how much later that was than the earliest mutuals:

In the UK, mutual institutions (aka Credit Unions) grew out of the friendly society movement of the 18th century, with the first mutual insurer, Equitable Life, being founded in 1762. The emergence of mutual assurance was linked with the Industrial Revolution and the need to provide for impoverished workers beyond the outmoded Elizabethan Poor Laws, as people congregated in the cities and lived in conditions of squalor and poverty. The historic principle of mutuality relates to this epoch, when sophisticated financial institutions (taken for granted today), simply did not exist.

The only method of improving the quality of ordinary people’s lives was through the development of co-operative and mutual societies, as formalised under the Friendly Societies Act 1819. Mutual institutions thus predated the welfare state and were formed to meet the needs of a burgeoning working class, comprised of mainly rural and immigrant workers. As a practical expression, this communitarian self-help movement allowed small regular individual contributions to be pooled for mutual collective benefit, obtaining the same economies of scope and scale necessary in providing collective insurance and banking products, to mitigate enduring social exclusion. Initially funding was required for housing, consumer durables and emergency insurance provision, at a time when commercial banks were still exclusively commercial lenders, [34]. Building societies were formed as small temporary societies by worker co-operatives, pooling resources to build local houses and subsequently allocating them among members by drawing lots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_Union

 

[newbie]

The links to riots and strikes are very romantic, of course, but are they really really landmarks in the lives of the common worker to compare with, for instance

the National Health Service from 1948
Universal education starting in 1891
Pensions for all from 1908
The Factories Acts from 1802 which reduced working time and introduce safety, amongst other things, including the abolition of child labour.
Universal Suffrage from 1928

 

[butchersapron]

They're clearly directly connected

 

[danny la rouge]

They're clearly directly connected

However, as John Dewey said, government is the shadow cast by business over society, and therefore changes in the shadows don't alter the primary class relationships.

 

[newbie]

However, as John Dewey said, government is the shadow cast by business over society, and therefore changes in the shadows don't alter the primary class relationships.

well, as each landmark is passed the terrain does change, mostly gradually occasionally rather dramatically. It would be hard to argue that the 'primary class relationship' has remained unchanged since before the first Factory Act in 1802.

 

[danny la rouge]

well, as each landmark is passed the terrain does change, mostly gradually occasionally rather dramatically. It would be hard to argue that the 'primary class relationship' has remained unchanged since before the first Factory Act in 1802.

I'd like to see your attempt at a proof that it hasn't.

As Butchers implies, each concession is hard won, not magnanimously gifted. But, to take your example of the Welfare State: yes, of course it's better than no Welfare State, only a fool would argue otherwise, but it was nonetheless an accommodation between capital and labour that kept capital in power.

 

[newbie]

there's no need to 'prove' anything, it's patently obvious to anyone outside the narrow world of the well read lefty. If you're really convinced, just try to explain to a bunch of randoms in a bus queue that their situation is the same as their forebears in 1800. I reckon they'll laugh at you.

As Butchers implies, each concession is hard won, not magnanimously gifted.

Oh yes, there's no doubt about that, but pretending that little or nothing has changed does an enormous disservice to those involved in the struggles of the last couple of hundred years or more. The sum total of all those 'concessions' has changed the terrain for the ordinary worker beyond all recognition.

 

[danny la rouge]

there's no need to 'prove' anything, it's patently obvious to anyone outside the narrow world of the well read lefty. If you're really convinced, just try to explain to a bunch of randoms in a bus queue that their situation is the same as their forebears in 1800. I reckon they'll laugh at you.

What did you think I was arguing? That we still cook on open fires and collect water from wells? I said that the class structure remains; I quite specifically said that there had been hard-won improvements to conditions.

Oh yes, there's no doubt about that, but pretending that little or nothing has changed does an enormous disservice to those involved in the struggles of the last couple of hundred years or more.

Who said little or nothing had changed?

 

[newbie]

You appear to be arguing that the 'primary class relationship' has remained unchanged since before the first Factory Act in 1802.

 

[danny la rouge]

You appear to be arguing that the 'primary class relationship' has remained unchanged since before the first Factory Act in 1802.

I am. I am not, however, arguing that conditions have remained unchanged.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

Joe Hill's execution by firing squad 1915. Found guilty of a murder he did not commit because he was a member of the Industrial Workers of the World IWW.

"Don't mourn organize"

 

[newbie]

seriously?

everything that's happened in the last 200 years is merely 'conditions' and has had no fundamental effect?

have you tried telling that to any women, or any people of African heritage?

I'm going to watch MoTD. I'll look at the people in the crowd and try to think of a single aspect of their class relationships which hasn't changed.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm going to watch MoTD. I'll look at the people in the crowd and try to think of a single aspect of their class relationships which hasn't changed.

You do that, then come back and tell us.

 

[newbie]

so how you getting on explaining that the abolition of slavery had no effect on primary class relationships?

 

[butchersapron]

newbie: The form that that the relationship takes place in. Easy to work out with good will.

 

[butchersapron]

so how you getting on explaining that the abolition of slavery had no effect on primary class relationships?

He didn't, wow, you're still a masssive massive *disinterested* liar.

 

[newbie]

#52

 

[butchersapron]

The conditions which a primary condition creates may change - they are driven by that primary condition. You're being dishonest once again.