Lame ending - Aliens 3

[Ryazan]

well why not enlighten us with a well thought out response mr feminist?

just calling my thoughts on the issuie 'cod' and 'poncey' doesn't count as debate.

the gender themes in the film are hardly covert, they're central the the film, and were commented on by numerous reviewers

you can choose to ignore them if you want, you can disagree with them if you choose to debate the issue, or you can just dismiss it a 'poncy' or 'cod' and end up looking like you don't have to prerequisite intelligence to make a meaningful comment

the choice is yours

Prequestite

We are talking about Aliens.

Post 34 just seems a little bit pretensious. Rather regurgitating opinion, rather than forming your own.

And lastly, I have never said that themes regarding gender "subversion", feminity, role models whathaveyou are cod and poncy. Rather your interpretations are unessescarily cod and poncy. OK?

 

[Louloubelle]

Prequestite

We are talking about Aliens.

Post 34 just seems a little bit pretensious. Rather regurgitating opinion, rather than forming your own.

And lastly, I have never said that themes regarding gender "subversion", feminity, role models whathaveyou are cod and poncy. Rather your interpretations are unessescarily cod and poncy. OK?

FFS

criticise what I've said it you want to but why not explain why you dissagree rather than just being insulting

I can say it in shorter words if it would help you to feel that it was less pretentious

specifically, what do you think of the resonances between Ripley's descent and the Inanna / Ishatr myth? Do you have an opinion?

What about Doherty's famous paper on the aliens trilogy, I thought that it was enjoyable but underplayed the gender apsects of the films, how about you?

And as for suggesting that I regurgitated other's ideas, whose ideas would they be?

 

[Ryazan]

Show me a link to Doherty, whoever he/she is ( ), the paper, outline the parts that you found interesting, explain me it to me in detail, then I will decide to answer you whether I agree with you or not. You are trying to prove so much, you come across as insecure, "I am more intellectual than thou". Please. Tell me your opinion, not just dropping names as to give hints of other people's, opinions that are perhaps, and most definitely more informed than I in their respective fields and interests, but that is them isn't it. Not you.

Don't co opt sombody elses thoughts as your own, and then try and cover it up to get one over on someone you know very little about on a bulletin board.

 

[akirajoel]

Prequestite

We are talking about Aliens.

Post 34 just seems a little bit pretensious. Rather regurgitating opinion, rather than forming your own.

And lastly, I have never said that themes regarding gender "subversion", feminity, role models whathaveyou are cod and poncy. Rather your interpretations are unessescarily cod and poncy. OK?

You're lame Ryazan...

Do you think that just because something is a Hollywood Blockbuster that it can't be interpreted as having signifiance?

 

[Ryazan]

I have never written that.

I just don't place much significance in the importantance of any gender related messages supposedly transmitted through the imagery and writing of the film Aliens. My opinion. Sorry.

 

[Louloubelle]

Show me a link to Doherty, whoever he is ( ), his paper, outline the parts that you found interesting, explain me it to me in detail, then I will decide to answer you whether I agree with you or not. .

so you've never read the article

why not google for it when you have a moment and then get back to me? LOL
google for Joanne Hocking too, you might learn something

You are trying to prove so much, you come across as insecure, "I am more intellectual than thou". Please. Tell me your opinion, not just dropping names as to give hints of other people's, opinions that are perhaps, and most definitely more informed than I in their respective fields and interests, but that is them isn't it. Not you.

I love the film, have written a long paper on it myself (back in the 90s, I'll try to find it and post it up if I can) but it had a psychoanalytic theme so you'd probably find it 'pretentious'

Don't co opt sombody elses thoughts as your own, and then try and cover it up to get one over on someone you know very little about on a bulletin board.

 

[Ryazan]

I want you to explain it to me. Don't drop names without back up amd then twist it when you get sussed.

 

[Ryazan]

FFS

criticise what I've said it you want to but why not [I]explain why you dissagree rather than just being insulting[/I]

I can say it in shorter words if it would help you to feel that it was less pretentious

specifically, what do you think of the resonances between Ripley's descent and the Inanna / Ishatr myth? Do you have an opinion?

What about Doherty's famous paper on the aliens trilogy, I thought that it was enjoyable but underplayed the gender apsects of the films, how about you?

And as for suggesting that I regurgitated other's ideas, whose ideas would they be?

Pot/kettle

 

[Louloubelle]

I want you to explain it to me. Don't drop names without back up amd then twist it when you get sussed.

well don't hold your breath LOL
you're in no position to demand anything from me
if you know so much about the various readings of Aliens now's your chance to shine
just google "Genre, Gender, and the Aliens Trilogy" read it and let me know what you think
you have yet to prove to me that you're capable of intelligent analysis of the relevant themes, so now's your chance
then when you've finished you can google for "gender confusion and the power of motherhood in Psycho and Aliens" By Joanne Hocking
then you can let us all know what you think

 

[Louloubelle]

Pot/kettle

says mr "I'm more feminist that you but Ripley can't be a feminist icon because the character was created by men"

 

[Ryazan]

So only an opinion that adresses themes or uses any anyalyses from two academic papers is worth regarding?

I want you to explain it to me, as I am not familiar with them. I want you to show me and convince me of your opinion. You are twisting, stalling. Stop it and tell me why you think only an opinion formed with reference to these two papers counts above all others.

You can't end me by just dropping two names and two papers.

Tell me your opinion using whatever material you like, but it is up to you to convince me. Don't tell me to read something you are familiar with, and then using that only as a prequesite for taking opinion seriosly.

 

[shoddysolutions]

well don't hold your breath LOL

Louloubelle, yesterday

 

[Ryazan]

says mr "I'm more feminist that you but Ripley can't be a feminist icon because the character was created by men"

I have never said I am more feminist than you. I have never said I was a feminist I have never said that Ripley can't be a feminist icon. Just think it is worth mentioning that her image, her story was fashioned from a male perspective.

Stop finding things where is no reason to shoot out.

 

[Ryazan]

I'm holding my breath......

 

[Louloubelle]

So only an opinion that adresses themes or uses any anyalyses from two academic papers is worth regarding? .

of course not, there are plently of academic studies of Aliens, please offer some alternative papers if you wish, or *gasp* you could always offer own views and opnions

I want you to explain it to me, as I am not familiar with them. I want you to show me and convince me of your opinion. You are twisting, stalling. Stop it and tell me why you think only an opinion formed with reference to these two papers counts above all others.

You can't end me by just dropping two names and two papers. .

I'm not trying to 'end you', just making the point that if you're going to attack someone's thoughts and analysis of a film then at least do so from a position of being informed, or have your own opinion. I enjoy a good debate but you need to be able to debate to join in

Tell me your opinion using whatever material you like, but it is up to you to convince me. Don't tell me to read something you are familiar with, and then using that only as a prequesite for taking opinion seriosly.

er, no it is not up to me to convince you
it is up to you to prove you can debate the issue rather then just being rude and dismissive

 

[Louloubelle]

I have never said I am more feminist than you. I have never said I was a feminist I have never said that Ripley can't be a feminist icon. Just think it is worth mentioning that her image, her story was fashioned from a male perspective.

Stop finding things where is no reason to shoot out.

*ahem*

I know enough about seruious feminism, written by women, to dismiss the cod gender politics/comment of James Cameron's Aliens.

 

[Ryazan]

you have posted up a link, and told me to read two papers, i am not aware of. Convince me. the ball is in your court. Yes the comment of Aliens Your comment. You still haven't gone into detail. See the first sentence.

 

[Louloubelle]

you have posted up a link, and told me to read two papers, i am not aware of. Convince me. the ball is in your court. Yes the comment of Aliens Your comment. You still haven't gone into detail. See the first sentence.

I don't care if you read the papers or not
You were talking as if you were an authority on the issues re gender in the film and I just wondered what you thought of he most well known piece of writing on the issue

so, to conclude, you don't have any ideas of your own to offer, you think my analysis of the film is 'cod' and 'pretentious', you are unable to say why, you suggest I'm regurgitating other people's work but you can't say whos work and you are not familiar with the most well known piece of writing re gender on the film available to the public

fine
at least we know where we stand

 

[Ryazan]

Dario Argento?

Google him if you don't see the reference.

 

[Jayshat]

Questions...

Which one is Resurection? 4? And what does Predator have to do with the ending? Have seen neither of the above btw, I don't think.

Think Aliens 3 was okay but not as good as the other 2 (only watched 1/2 of the 2nd one, was too scared - sad, I know).

The alien in Aliens 3 didn't really scare me as much...don't know why, maybe it's the shape/form/movement. But there were scary bits; Ripley being scanned, the Alien tracking the guys in the corridor etc.

But the ending was a bit B-movie really. Still worth watching though.

 

[soulrebel]

well Louloubelle, i have to disagree with u on this one, cos Alien 3 is my favourite of all of them, but i love your context

Alien/s is a fuckload deeper than just a "Hollywood shoot em up", even if it wasn't intended to be so...

IMO the ending of 3 is one of the all time great film endings (and Peter Jackson should have bloody well taken note... THAT is how you fall into lave/hot lead/whatever, not like it's just mildly hot quicksand...)

i love the way its set up is dark and just gets darker... Ripley loses everything and has to face up to the fact that within her is her worst nightmare (shades of both HIV and rape/unwanted pregnancy there)... by the end of it she's almost a Greek tragedy or even a Christ figure... resisting the temptation of the Corporation and choosing to end herself so that she can end the evil, despite the fact that she so desperately wants to live... IMO that's incredibly moving, with or without the subtexts...

the alien was somewhat less scary, but IMO it didn't need to be, because the whole atmosphere was that much gloomier, darker and more desperate... it's a change from immediate "jump out of your seat" horror to more cerebral, dystopian horror...

i guess i just like my films really dark... i give alien 3 massive props for being possibly one of the darkest ever (story wise) mainstream "blockbuster" type films...

(also shaven headed Weaver's fucking sexy )

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Can someone find a link to this Doherty essay - I can't find it online anywhere.

 

[Ryazan]

I have seen it before in a book called Dread of Difference. Maybe LouLou can clairfy?

 

[exosculate]

Aliens 3 is gash. Of course Fincher went on to direct Seven and all was forgiven.

Seven is rubbish -fightclub is much better

 

[Louloubelle]

I'll find the link, I may have it in favourites

in the meantime you can get yer teeth into this piece, which I enjoyed very much

http://www.horrordiva.com/articles/alien.html

 

[Ryazan]

I saw it (horrordiva) as one of the first links available when I googled earlier. Probably like you did.

Care to see post 79? And then I can find out whether or not you have actually read that essay? And not a googled article in reference to it.

Cheers.

 

[Louloubelle]

I saw it (horrordiva) as one of the first links available when I googled earlier. Probably like you did.

Care to see post 79? And then I can find out whether or not you have actually read that essay? And not a googled article in reference to it.

Cheers.

yes I have read the essay and I'd be happyto discuss it with anyone who wants to read it too, but not you as you're not worth my time so I'm putting you on ignore

 

[Louloubelle]

Can someone find a link to this Doherty essay - I can't find it online anywhere.

I can't find it now, but I know it's on line somewhere
I have to go out now but I'll post it up later / tomorrow



these are both interesting

http://www.erudit.org/revue/ron/2001/v/n21/005961ar.html

http://www.duallens.com/index.asp?reviewId=102903

 

[Ryazan]

yes I have read the essay and I'd be happyto discuss it with anyone who wants to read it too, but not you as you're not worth my time so I'm putting you on ignore

Okay.

 

[Rosemary Jest]

Love Alien 3. Would recommend the special edition with extra/different scenes in it, gives the film a new perspective.