Lambeth Council may adopt IHRA definition of anti semitism

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by Gramsci, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    This was news to me. Friend in Palestine Solidarity Campaign pointed this out to me.

    Leader of Council Lib Peck has written to South London Liberal Synagogue to say,

    Jewish members of Lambeth Labour wrote to Cllr Lib Peck,

    Both letters in full here,

    How Lambeth Council is getting antisemitism and the IHRA wrong Lib Peck - Free Speech on Israel
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  2. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    The local section of Palestinian Solidarity Campaign are asking people to email their ward Cllrs to oppose adoption of IHRA definition with examples.

    Dear friends

    Lib Peck, leader of Lambeth Council wrote to a local Jewish Synagogue that Lambeth Council intend to adopt the IHRA definition of antisemitism with all its examples, in early August.
    A group of Jewish Labour activist Lambeth residents wrote detailed objections to Lib Peck shortly after.

    The local Palestine Solidarity Campaign branch is now urgently asking Palestine supporters who are Lambeth Residents to write to their local Councillors opposing this proposal.

    I attach our draft letter below, which we strongly recommend you use, adding any personal touches.

    Please also ask your Palestine supportive friends who are Lambeth residents to do the same.
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  3. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Draft letter to Cllrs one could use:

    Dear Councillor xxxx
    I am one of your constituents.
    I understand that Lambeth Council may be recommended to adopt a version of the working definition of anti-Semitism which was originally drafted by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) along with its examples.

    I do not think that Lambeth should do so, for reasons which include:

    * The examples are heavily weighted to protecting the state of Israel from criticism rather than addressing hostility to Jews as Jews. This subject is thoughtfully addressed in an article by Stephen Sedley QC (who incidentally is Jewish).

    * The opinions of Jewish people about the IHRA definition and examples are diverse. They are not the sole property of the Board of Deputies and the self-styled Jewish Leadership Council. An explanation of some other views and the facts that support them is set out by Jewish Voice for Labour.

    * ‘Public authorities are under a positive obligation to protect freedom of speech...the IHRA Definition does not mean that activities such as describing Israel as a state enacting policies of apartheid... or calling for policies of boycott divestment or sanctions against Israel can... be characterized as antisemitic. A public authority which sought to apply the IHRA Definition to prohibit or sanction such activities would be acting
    unlawfully’ Opinion by Hugh Tomlinson QC

    * Unless similar definitions and examples were adopted for other religious and racial groups, Lambeth Council's message would be that one particular group is worthy of protection in a way that everyone else is not.

    Please let me know:

    (1) Your own personal views on the subject.

    (2) If you are minded to vote for Lambeth adopting the IHRA definition & examples, what action do you think the Council should take to implement the decision?

    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  4. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    I think things have moved on since the letters were written. NEC has now adopted the examples. Confusingly for Joe public the IHRA ( International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) was a definition of anti semitism plus what it regarded as examples. Its the interpretation that is contentious.

    Its complicated. The day after NEC decision I heard Margaret Hodge and Shami Chakrabarti being interviewed on Radio 4 in morning. Chakrabarti was asked about criticising Israel/ anti semitism issue and she evaded the question. Hodge said the NEC decision was just the start.

    I felt that after listening to this that now NEC has agreed the examples as well as definition push now will be to define any criticism of Israel as anti Semitic.

    Counsel's opinion on the IHRA definition - Free Speech on Israel

    PSC plus other groups got top QC to look at how IHRA definition plus examples stands up in legal/ human rights angle.

    Here is what he says:

    This is a free speech issue. People should not be tarred with being racist for saying that Israel is a racist state.

    I'm rather afraid that if this New Labour run Council adopts the IHRA definition with examples this will happen.
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  5. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

  6. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    mojo pixy and Pickman's model like this.
  7. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    Surely what is happening is actually Hegelian dialectic.
    The proponents of Israeli policy get it accepted that adverse comments about Israeli racism are anti-Semitic and it's checkmate.
  8. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Not sure about the Hegelian bit but yes thats what could happen.

    Couple of weeks ago read Ilan Pappe book The Ten Myths of Israel. He was born in Israel and is Jewish. He is a historian now a professor at Exeter.

    He says the Israeli state was founded on the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. He argues that Zionist leaders had this in mind all along.

    You can find his lectures on YouTube.

    Excerpt from his book here:


    So saying Israel state is racist is backed up by historical research.
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  9. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    Interesting how the Ethiopean Jews, whilst at first rescued by the Israeli armed forces are now very marginalised.

    Also various refugee groups who have sought asylum are not particularly welcome - presumably on racial grounds Israel to African refugees: You're not welcome here
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  10. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill Enforced Holiday

    Does the IHRA disagree with you?
  11. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Yes. Its in the examples not the definition.
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  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    There's a fuck ton of evidence that the zionist entity is a racist endeavour and bugger all to suggest it isn't.
    Gramsci likes this.
  13. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    Indeed, it's pointing out the bleeding obvious
    Gramsci likes this.
  14. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    On an autobiographical note the first time I became aware of the Palestine issue was as a result of reading a very gripping novel by Ethel Mannin about two teenage boys who had been close friends, one Jewish and one Palestinian, and whose lives were torn apart by the political and military conflict in Palestine/Israel. This must have been "The Road to Beersheba" which is currently almost unavailable.

    The book was lent to me by our vicar, who had done his national service in Palestine in the period from the end of WW II until the establishment of the state of Israel. I'm not quite sure why he lent it to me - maybe he wanted me to appreciate that the problems of growing up in rural Bury St Edmunds were insignificant to the sort of horrific situations some people have to put up with.

    As a matter of fact the biography of Ethel Mannin is interesting in itself. She was a working class woman from Clapham who rejected Labour as not radical enough and apparently considered herself an anarchist. She was highly prolific and seemed to have a big following as an author.
    Mannin, Ethel (1900–1984) |
    Gramsci likes this.
  15. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Been told that this issue was discussed by Labour Group this week. A motion will be put to full Council on 10th October.

    The wording of motion is not known yet.
  16. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Also been hearing not all Lambeth Labour party members are happy with Council leader Lib Peck over this.
  17. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    motions from Labour, Tories for next Wednesday Council meeting. Plus amendments to Labour motion from Tories and Greens.

    Green party only one to acknowledge freedom of speech issue.

    Attached Files:

  18. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    What the hell is Cllr Briggs going on about?

    "....the views of Jeremy Corbyn have received support from Nick Griffin of the racist British National Party, and David Duke of the racist Klu Klux Klan in America."

    Is Jeremy Corbin eagerly beavering away on 4Chan, 8Chan, Reddit and other organs of the Alt-Right, having a dialogue with Nick Griffin etc.

    Actually to be serious I doubt that Mr Corbyn or Mr Griffin have heard of, never mind accessed the Alt media. But Cllr Briggs ought to take a few Latin lessons from Boris and find out the meaning of "non sequitor".
    Gramsci and snowy_again like this.
  19. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    The Labour motion says this:

    But its not therefore adopting the definition and examples. They are two separate things.

    The Tory motion is clear. This is what Tories say in there motion:

    This is correct way to word it if one wants to adopt the IHRA definition and examples.

    The Labour motion renames them "guidelines". Which is something I don't understand. Its not the IHRA terminology.

    On the IHRA website it says this:

    Working Definition of Antisemitism

    The IHRA website makes clear the separation between the definition , in an enclosed box, and examples.

    There is something seriously wrong with the wording of the Labour motion. If they meant to adopt the IHRA definition and examples this is worded incorrectly. Imo could be argued that if carried with no amendments its only adopting the definition.

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