Lambeth Council and operation black vote

[guinnessdrinker]

I thinks its the Lambeth's 1990 Trust, Lambeth Law Centre and others supported by OBV and the Black Londoners Forum.



Shamit Saggar-Sussex University, Mohammad Anwar-Warwick University, Ed Fieldhouse-Manchester University will all corroborate the various stats about black voter under registration. I am sure organisations like OBV, the CRE, the Electoral Commission, have done polling and reports on the above too. Also The DCA Elections Minister was at Old Kent Road Mosque a week ago and she was quoting stats from her own department findings from I think late Summer 2005.

just for accuracy, there are two mosques. there is one on the old kent road itself near curry, and one not very far, a few hundred yards down Coburg Road, opposite the first one. which one is it? both could be said to be in the Old Kent Road area.

 

[Bob]

To point out the obvious the Census (National Statistics - ie national government) data plus population trends in Lambeth mean that Len Lewis (the civil servant at the council responsible) has the Lambeth population now at approximately 210,967 people aged 18 or over in Lambeth.

There are currently 207,024 people on Lambeth's electoral register.

So it doesn't seem to me that there is a colossal problem. Yes people don't return their forms on time (I'm not sure I did mine), yes there are a lot of households with people who think they might not be eligible to vote in Lambeth (overwhelmingly non UK citizens who do have a right to vote), but nobody has any evidence there is a major problem.

And no there is no ethnicity data on electoral registration since you don't give your ethnicity when you register to vote.

 

[Bob]

Isn't that enough to suggest that it would be worth canvassing again though - surely a place with such low voter registration numbers should take up the opportunity to boost participation. And, at the very least, the canvassing process could provide useful feedback and a clearer picture of the problem in hand.

Something I've dug out from the council about what has been done:


A door to door canvass of each household was undertaken between October and mid-November 2005. The council has done the following:

* The start of the canvass to encourage people to get registered in
mid-August 2005. This included sending a registration form to all households
in borough (approximately 130,000);
* Sending out reminder forms in mid-September to properties that had
not returned a registration form (approximately 82,000);
* A door to door canvassing of properties which had not yet responded
(approximately 65,000) from the 10th October to mid-November;
* Starting monthly rolling registration from 1st December 2005;
* Sending out nearly 15,000 letters with Voter Registration Forms to
all properties that did not have any electors listed as at 3 January 2006;
* Copying successful methods used in the east-end of London to
increase the number of people on the register by sending letters and Voter
Registration Forms at the end of January to over 270 faith groups and places
of worship asking them to raise awareness and the deadline for registration;

* Other activities include: -
* Sending a letter with Voter Registration Form to all members;
* Distributing a bookmark with deadline details via Lambeth Libraries;
* Participating in the London-wide activities as part of the DCA's
London-wide Voter Registration Awareness Campaign;
* Running an advertisement in the February addition of Lambeth Life.

 

[TeeJay]

To point out the obvious the Census (National Statistics - ie national government) data plus population trends in Lambeth mean that Len Lewis (the civil servant at the council responsible) has the Lambeth population now at approximately 210,967 people aged 18 or over in Lambeth.

There are currently 207,024 people on Lambeth's electoral register.

So it doesn't seem to me that there is a colossal problem...

People who don't register to vote may well not return any census information either. Do you know if they use any other methods for estimating the true size of the population?

Your own figures above seem to indicate that there were 15,000 addresses with noone listed in January. On top of this there will be addresses with maybe only one person listed that actually have more people living there.

Speaking from personal experience of going door to door in Lambeth using an electoral roll in a whole range of different wards, I have the impression that in some areas there are large numbers of people who don't appear on any register or roll.

You are also wrong to say that "overwhelmingly non UK citizens who do have a right to vote" - as Commonwealth citizens who are resident here do have the right to vote, as do EU citizens in local and european elections - it isn't confined to "UK citizens".

Edit: Its worth noting that a lot of the stuff that you have listed above as "what Lambeth have done" are simply the minimum legal requirements for all councils in the UK - and therefore nothing whatsoever to brag about.

I think that if it is true that Lambeth has one of the lowest levels of voter registration, then the council should do a lot more than the minimum legal requirements, although this doesn't mean that either Operation Black Vote or spending £70,000 are things I automatically support:

I am sure for far less than £70,000 I could organise a bunch of people to go round knocking on doors and stand outside tubes and stations, encouraging people to register to vote, explaining that the information won't be used against them (although in some cases it might be! ), explaining who is eligable to vote (ie not just UK nationals), explaining that there are candidates and parties worth voting for (but in reality are there?) and providing forms and advice on how to fill them in.

I think that political parties should actually take a lead in this in any case - make themselves useful outsode of election time by helping provide and protect people's right to vote, not just turning up shortly before elections to shovel crap through letterboxes, slag off the competition and tell porky pies.

They might even get a few more people to bother to turn out and vote for them as well in the process.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

I am sure for far less than £70,000 I could organise a bunch of people to go round knocking on doors and stand outside tubes and stations, encouraging people to register to vote, explaining that the information won't be used against them (although in some cases it might be! ), explaining who is eligable to vote (ie not just UK nationals), explaining that there are candidates and parties worth voting for (but in reality are there?) and providing forms and advice on how to fill them in.

In France after the recent riots, tv and football stars and others "issue de l'immigration" ("ethnic minorities") called on the box to tell people to register. the response was massive in those areas in trouble. and of course you don't have to vote the choice offered on election day, you can spoil your vote.

 

[Bob]

People who don't register to vote may well not return any census information either. Do you know if they use any other methods for estimating the true size of the population?

I think ONS do - because there's been a fair amount of controversy about population figures in London - leading to re-estimates for a number of boroughs.

Your own figures above seem to indicate that there were 15,000 addresses with noone listed in January. On top of this there will be addresses with maybe only one person listed that actually have more people living there.

Absolutely - though with something like 150,000 (?) addresses in Lambet this is only about 10% of housing - a reasonable number will be empty at any given time and a reasonable number will have people who are not entitled to vote - notably in Lambeth people from the Americas and non Commonwealth Africa.

You are also wrong to say that "overwhelmingly non UK citizens who do have a right to vote" - as Commonwealth citizens who are resident here do have the right to vote, as do EU citizens in local and european elections - it isn't confined to "UK citizens".

You've misunderstood me - I was saying that I think the main problem is people who are entitled to vote because they are EU or Commonwealth citizens but don't realise they are.

I am sure for far less than £70,000 I could organise a bunch of people to go round knocking on doors and stand outside tubes and stations, encouraging people to register to vote, explaining that the information won't be used against them (although in some cases it might be! ), explaining who is eligable to vote (ie not just UK nationals), explaining that there are candidates and parties worth voting for (but in reality are there?) and providing forms and advice on how to fill them in.

Not convinced by that - with minimum wage at £5 an hour plus other costs this is maybe 10,000 hours of time to pay for people - and I very much doubt you'd get 1 person an hour signing up outside tubes.

I think that political parties should actually take a lead in this in any case - make themselves useful outsode of election time by helping provide and protect people's right to vote, not just turning up shortly before elections to shovel crap through letterboxes, slag off the competition and tell porky pies.

They do - I had a conversation about this with one of the Lib Dem councillors in Stockwell who does it a couple of months back, and I've been involved in attempts to sign up people to vote when the new EU entrants joined a few years back.

 

[poster342002]

explaining that the information won't be used against them (although in some cases it might be! ),

I think that hits the nail on the head. I suspect a lot more people would register were the list not a golden ticket for the debt-collection industry to track people down on.

 

[pooka]

There are currently 207,024 people on Lambeth's electoral register.

Where does that come from Bob? The figures given for the last election suggest that just 48k voted with an overall turnout of just under 26%. That would suggest register (at that time) of 188k. Have they done so much better? Your figures suggest 98% registration, which is widely at odds with Cllr McGlone's figures quoted above.

 

[intertonic]

I am sure for far less than £70,000 I could organise a bunch of people to go round knocking on doors and stand outside tubes and stations, encouraging people to register to vote, explaining that the information won't be used against them (although in some cases it might be! ), explaining who is eligable to vote (ie not just UK nationals), explaining that there are candidates and parties worth voting for (but in reality are there?) and providing forms and advice on how to fill them in.

You'd be surprised I went to do some recording down in Peckham last year at a council event outside the library and twelve grafters for three hours collected around a couple of hundred forms, I reckon they only managed that because there was a stage and music so people stopped, outside Brixton tube station?! Forget it. What I witnessed was that in between all the crack pots, crackheads, winos, ineligible to register, misfilled forms, speech impediments, noise, accents, dialects, continual questions about what this is for, how it will be used, what are you doing agains’, and persuasion, abuse, cajoling, heckling, and in one instance a lit firework directed in someone’s face it looked like hard slog, expensive, tiring work which was high maintenance high output low outcome. After that experience I certainly wouldn't want to do it as a 9-5 nor with all respect do I believe it could be done on a shoestring!

 

[MrBC]

And don't you dare accuse me of racism - read my post above with my logical reasons as to my view.

I didn't accuse you of racism. I accused you of making a back-door allegation of racism against the Lambeth tories. Since you accused us of refusing to register more black voters because it's not in our political interests to do so, what is that but an accusation that we're racist?

 

[tarannau]

I didn't accuse you of racism. I accused you of making a back-door allegation of racism against the Lambeth tories. Since you accused us of refusing to register more black voters because it's not in our political interests to do so, what is that but an accusation that we're racist?

Why so dismissive of the idea of OBV though MrBC? Despite your early assertions the figures provided on this thread very much suggest that OBV has a point and that more could be done.

You rapid dismissal of the idea, sneerily citing lack of 'value for money' certainly looked evasive, if not calculating, to me.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

I didn't accuse you of racism. I accused you of making a back-door allegation of racism against the Lambeth tories. Since you accused us of refusing to register more black voters because it's not in our political interests to do so, what is that but an accusation that we're racist?

well, to find out whether the tories are pursuing policies that might be considered racist, you need to answer my question, which was:

is it not still true to say that BME voters are less likely to vote tory? And is it not true to say that the tories are likely to lose seats if more ethnic minorities were registered to vote in Lambeth?

 

[MrBC]

This is such a burning issue that precisely no-one turned up to the 'mass demonstration' outside the Town Hall. The whole thing turned into the dampest of damp squibs when it became clear that, after 2 door-to-door canvasses, 98% of the potential electorate is registered to vote.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Why so dismissive of the idea of OBV though MrBC? Despite your early assertions the figures provided on this thread very much suggest that OBV has a point and that more could be done.

You rapid dismissal of the idea, sneerily citing lack of 'value for money' certainly looked evasive, if not calculating, to me.

A question I'd like answered is why is paying off an exec £700k value for money but £60-70 to get people registered isn't?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

This is such a burning issue that precisely no-one turned up to the 'mass demonstration' outside the Town Hall. The whole thing turned into the dampest of damp squibs when it became clear that, after 2 door-to-door canvasses, 98% of the potential electorate is registered to vote.

Maybe that was because of the shortness of notice?

 

[aurora green]

A question I'd like answered is why is paying off an exec £700k value for money but £60-70 to get people registered isn't?

Sorry to derail, and if this is completely old news,
but who got paid a £700k payoff and by who?

 

[MrBC]

well, to find out whether the tories are pursuing policies that might be considered racist, you need to answer my question, which was:

I've already answered the point. Gipsy Hill has one of the highest proportion of BME voters in the borough and is the safest tory seat. We know full well that, with the right campaign, we can win the votes of BME voters in Lambeth elections. In fact, some parts of the BME community have proven to be particularly well disposed to a sensibly pitched tory message.

And, by the way, I am genuinely outraged by the suggestion that we would somehow seek to gain poilitcal advantage by keeping a particular group off the electoral register. It is utterly untrue. I've been present when the OBV request has been dicussed within the tory group and no-one has ever made the suggestion that you seem all too ready to defame us with.

 

[tarannau]

I've already answered the point. Gipsy Hill has one of the highest proportion of BME voters in the borough and is the safest tory seat. We know full well that, with the right campaign, we can win the votes of BME voters in Lambeth elections. .

Erm, I'm not sure what statistics you're looking at, but the National Neighbourhood Statistics site doesn't really seem to back you up.

Gipsy Hill ward certainly has an above average proportion of those who consider themselves Mixed Race (White & Black) Caribbean., but the other figures are far less supportive of your assertion. Low rates of Asian/Asian British, lower Black British, lower Black African etc.

In fact Gipsy Hill ward would actually seem to have a higher proportion of those who consider themselves White or White British than Lambeth as a whole. Despite your confidence and faux outrage the stats don't seem to back you up.

Which stats are you using MrBC? I note you've continued to ignore the case of Ferndale and Vassell wards, both wards with high BME populations and very low voter participation.

 

[netbob]

Sorry to derail, and if this is completely old news,
but who got paid a £700k payoff and by who?

The ex-chief exec of Lambeth

 

[tarannau]

And that was after a 'poor appraisal' made them think of leaving. Hate to think what they could actuallly gain if they were good.

Gawd knows what they consider value for money.

 

[lang rabbie]

This is such a burning issue that precisely no-one turned up to the 'mass demonstration' outside the Town Hall. The whole thing turned into the dampest of damp squibs when it became clear that, after 2 door-to-door canvasses, 98% of the potential electorate is registered to vote.

Ahem... actually I think you mean to say that the number of names on the register is equal to 98% of the statistical estimate of the potential electorate. There is a subtle difference.

 

[TeeJay]

Not convinced by that - with minimum wage at £5 an hour plus other costs this is maybe 10,000 hours of time to pay for people - and I very much doubt you'd get 1 person an hour signing up outside tubes.

Have you ever stood outside Brixton tube and talled to people and/or given out flyers etc? I have and IME you could get one person every ten minutes - although in fact people may well have to actually send forms in themselves, and also forms are per household (or at least they have always been so up till now - it might be about to change) which means that in reality you would have to talk to people and give them a form to take away.

In any case, you would get *far* more than one per hour, if you had even a small amount of talent and/or training for doing this kind of thing (training that I could give people and would consist of lines/patter that actually works).

 

[TeeJay]

98% of the potential electorate is registered to vote.

Where do you get this 98% figure from? Or have you just invented it?

 

[MrBC]

Where do you get this 98% figure from? Or have you just invented it?

From Len Lewis the Lambeth election supremo.

Invented it?? What purpose would that serve. Don't judge everyone by your own standards.

 

[Gramsci]

Read some of this interesting thread.What does not seem to have been mentioned is that some people dont want to register.I notice the Council has been sending out nasy letters demanding that one register before a certain date in March.Some people might just want to be left alone from the Government or politicians.

 

[TeeJay]

From Len Lewis the Lambeth election supremo.

Invented it?? What purpose would that serve. Don't judge everyone by your own standards.

I'm asking you to back up this 98% figure. Len Lewis may well pride himself on doing his job properly and having a high registration figure, but then he probably isn't going to go around saying "yes, I am totally shit at my job, sack me now" is he?

He is the clown who managed to put my name on the list as a candidate in a local election but somehow "forgot" to add my name to the electoral roll so I wasn't allowed to vote.

Frankly him saying 98% is not worth anything without some kind of evidence. Have you got any?

 

[MrBC]

Frankly him saying 98% is not worth anything without some kind of evidence. Have you got any?

What a tediously predictable response. I don't like the facts therefore I attack the fact bearer. Where, exactly, do you think any facts about the levels of electoral registration in Lambeth come from, except the elections registration office??? No one else does it. There is no other evidence.

 

[tarannau]

I'm more interested in seeing how you justify your earlier assertion that Gipsy Hill has 'one of the highest proportion of BME voters in the borough' despite this seemingly bearing little relation to national (neighbourhood) statistics.

And yet you continue to ignore the examples of Vassall and Ferndale wards. both of which you've jumped over in your haste to point at Gipsy Hill as an example to justify why the Tories have nothing to fear from OBV.

 

[TeeJay]

Percentage 'BME' population by ward:

Coldharbour 56.1
Vassall 49.1
Streatham South 47.5
Stockwell 42.8
Tulse Hill 42.8
Larkhall 42.7
Ferndale 41.4
Prince's 37.7
Knight's Hill 37.1
Streatham Wells 36.2
Brixton Hill 35.6
Gypsy Hill 35.5
Herne Hill 35.2
Thornton 34.6
Bishop's 34.3
Streatham Hill 32.4
St Leonard's 32.3
Oval 31.5
Clapham Town 28.9
Thurlow Park 25.5
Clapham Common 23.1

Wards with Conservatives elected:

Gypsy Hill (3)
Thurlow Park (3)
Clapham Town (1)

Conversely, some rough percentages for Conservatives in the following wards:

Coldharbour 6% (5th place)
Vassall 8% (4th place)
Streatham South 18% (3rd place)
Stockwell 5% (4th place)
Tulse Hill 10% (4th place)
Larkhall 8% (4th place)
Ferndale 9% (4th place)
Prince's 8% (4th place)
Knight's Hill 9% (4th)
Streatham Wells 8% (4th)
Brixton Hill 11% (5th)
Gypsy Hill 53% (1st)
Herne Hill 16% (4th)
Thornton 9% (4th)
Bishop's 7% (4th)
Streatham Hill 11% (4th)
St Leonard's 10% (4th)
Oval 8% (4th)
Clapham Town 35% (2nd)
Thurlow Park 51% (1st)
Clapham Common 26% (3rd)

(Percentages calculated by taking the average vote for each party)

 

[TeeJay]

So MrBC - are you even going to tell us how this 98% registration figure was calculated?