Lambeth Council and operation black vote

[dogmatique]

Is it only me that thinks it highly dubious of an organisation to demand 60 grand from the council, and then kick up a stink when they don't get it?

Edit: Ahh, It's one of Lee Jasper's quangoes...

 

[krazie]

Press Release: 21st February, 2006
TO NEWS/POLITICAL DESKS
IMMEDIATE

Contact: Ashok Viswanathan 020-8983-5430

Lambeth refuse to register Black people to vote

During an astonishing meeting with senior Lambeth Council officials Operation Black Vote were told that the local authority would not undertake any more door to door canvassing. This is in spite of the fact that their voter registration levels along with Islington Council are worst in the country. Furthermore, given the 40% Black and minority ethnic (BME) population in Lambeth they also have the least amount of BME politicians -4 out of 67- in the country.

Over 1 in 5 of Londoners, many of them young and BME communities are not on the electoral register. In some inner London areas within Islington and Lambeth this rises to 1 in 2 not on the electoral register.

Other data:
• 6% of white communities registered to vote (Anwar 1998)
• 24% BME communities not registered (Anwar 1998)
• Nationally, 37 per cent of black Africans are not registered (DCA 2005)

Simon Woolley, OBV’s Director stated:
Given the available data that clearly shows BME communities are 4 times more likely not be on the register, the councils decision not to pay for a third canvas is a wilful and disgraceful act to disenfranchise Lambeth’s BME communities. This a council that paid 700k compensation to its outgoing chief executive and is refusing to pay 60k to politically enfranchise alienated communities.

Ben Owusu, Interim director for Black Londoners Forum stated:
I am pleased that the Mayor for London has offered to foot Lambeth’s bill for this extra canvas. We’ll now see if their decision is financial or political. If local governance is to work then all communities need to have an equitable voice. The first step is to register to vote.
ENDS.

Notes to the editor:
1. Operation Black Vote is a non-party political campaign.
2. The term ‘Black’ is a political term. It refers to African, Asian, Caribbean and other ethnic minorities.

Care to comment?

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I'm afraid I can discern neither the 'claim' you claim I made nor the 'evidence' you claim to have found to refute it, from either my earlier posts or your previous post.

post #15 - MrBC "The evidence strongly suggests that, in Lambeth, the BME community is registered to vote in precisely the same proportion as the white population. There is simply no need therefore for the council to spend money 'solving' a problem that doesn't exist." - what bit of your own quote don't you understand?

 

[netbob]

Is it only me that thinks it highly dubious of an organisation to demand 60 grand from the council, and then kick up a stink when they don't get it?

It seems like Lambeth is shurking it's responsibilities to maintain a healthy level of democratic involvement. OBV is an organisation setup to campaign for more people from ethnic minorities to vote. Since Lambeth has both poor turnout/registration levels and a sizable ethnic minority community AND the rest of the london boroughs are playing ball, they are perfectly within their rights to raise the subject.

 

[dogmatique]

It seems like Lambeth is shurking it's responsibilities to maintain a healthy level of democratic involvement. OBV is an organisation setup to campaign for more people from ethnic minorities to vote. Since Lambeth has both poor turnout/registration levels and a sizable ethnic minority community AND the rest of the london boroughs are playing ball, they are perfectly within their rights to raise the subject.

True, but Lambeth not giving the OBV sixty grand does not equate to "Lambeth refuse to register Black people to vote", which I find churlish and offensive, and discredits any valid point that the OBV might have.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

True, but Lambeth not giving the OBV sixty grand does not equate to "Lambeth refuse to register Black people to vote", which I find churlish and offensive, and discredits any valid point that the OBV might have.

It doesn't say that OBV asked for £60k, it says:

"OBV then asked Lambeth if they would do it themselves. Again, the council declined claiming that the £60,000 price tag was not “value for money.”"

- i think that the £60k relates to the cost to the council, not to paying OBV.

 

[dogmatique]

If that's the case, why would Lambeth council refuse to join the OBV campaign unless there was a cost implication?

 

[MrBC]

Have OBV black vote produced one shred of evidence to suggest that, in Lambeth, the level of BME registration is lower than white registration? Er, no.

The best they can come up with is 'black registration levels tend to be lower than white. Lambeth has low voter registration levels'.

The rants in the press reslease about the council behaving 'disgracefully' and about paying off its chief executive (??? what has that got to do with the price of cheddar, FFS) demonstrate rather more eloquently than I could, just how flimsy their case is. Could it be that we have elections in 8 weeks and politics are being played? Surely not.

 

[MrBC]

That's utter complacency.

Let's face it, the tories would lose votes if more ethnic minorities were registered to vote in Lambeth.

Edited to make the quote clearer

Fabulous! A post that combines factual inaccuracy with a back-door accusation of racism.

Lambeth has only 2 wards where the tories hold all 3 seats, out of 21.

One of those wards, Gipsy Hill, has the 3rd higherst proportion of BME voters in the borough, at just over 49% of the electorate. Gipsy Hill has the highest Conservative majority in the borough.

 

[netbob]

If that's the case, why would Lambeth council refuse to join the OBV campaign

The answer to that depends how cynical you are

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

"The Get London Registered campaign involves the Department for Constitutional Affairs, the Mayor of London, the Commission for Racial Equality, the Association of London Government, the Electoral Commission, Operation Black Vote and the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister."

from government news network

Politics being played or a serious attempt at trying to raise awareness of the importance to young people of getting involved in local politics?

I will leave you with this from an article in the London Bulletin, produced by the Association of London Government:

"But, while mobility and age are significant factors in non-registration, it is equally striking that black and minority ethnic (BME) potential voters are, on average, three times as likely to be unregistered as white British people. With around one in three Londoners belonging to a BME community, the impact is particularly apparent in the capital. Non-registration rates are exceptionally high among certain BME communities with 37 per cent of black Africans and 30 per cent of British Chinese failing to register to vote."

 

[tarannau]

The best they can come up with is 'black registration levels tend to be lower than white. Lambeth has low voter registration levels'.

The rants in the press reslease about the council behaving 'disgracefully' and about paying off its chief executive (??? what has that got to do with the price of cheddar, FFS

Isn't that enough to suggest that it would be worth canvassing again though - surely a place with such low voter registration numbers should take up the opportunity to boost participation. And, at the very least, the canvassing process could provide useful feedback and a clearer picture of the problem in hand.

I think the payment made to the outgoing chief executive is entirely relevant - it just goes to show how petty Lambeth (and Mr BC in this case) are when they talk about the justification for OBV being poor or bad 'value for money.' For christssakes - how the hell can you justify a £700k payout, but sneer at the idea of spending less than a tenth of that on potentially increasing voter participation.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Isn't that enough to suggest that it would be worth canvassing again though - surely a place with such low voter registration numbers should take up the opportunity to boost participation. And, at the very least, the canvassing process could provide useful feedback and a clearer picture of the problem in hand.

I think the payment made to the outgoing chief executive is entirely relevant - it just goes to show how petty Lambeth (and Mr BC in this case) are when they talk about the justification for OBV being poor or bad 'value for money.' For christssakes - how the hell can you justify a £700k payout, but sneer at the idea of spending less than a tenth of that on potentially increasing voter participation.

Indeed. Interesting that Mr BC comments about playing politics when there is a slight worry for his Tory/Lib Dem controlled council; BME people tend to vote labour. If they register them to vote they're effectivelly building an opposition to them and that's not something they're going to allow is it?

 

[pootle]

No one would or could stop OBV from running whatever campaign it wants to register more black voters. But since OBV was demanding a large amount of money from the council to spend on its campaign, we are entitled to bring a critical analysis to bear on whether tax-payers' money needs to be spent in this way.

Nothing 'snide' about that.

I'm in total agreement - it simply does represent good value for money, there's nothing more dodgy than that.

And for the record, Lambeth are working with a flippin load of local community and voluntary groups to raise the registration of BME (not just "Black" whatever that is) residents in Lambeth, which isn't going to cost the tax payer £70k.

Lambeth are NOT deliberately trying to exclude certain groups from the democratic process, despite what many people on this thread would obviously like to think.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

And for the record, Lambeth are working with a flippin load of local community and voluntary groups to raise the registration of BME (not just "Black" whatever that is) residents in Lambeth, which isn't going to cost the tax payer £70k.

How was paying off execs £700k good value for money?

 

[tarannau]

I think that's not all that important to be honest. The sums of cash involved were clearly ludicrous, unlike the sums OBV were suggesting should be invested in more canvassing.

However, unlike Pootle, I don't see working with community and voluntary groups as necessarily the best way to increase the vote. To put it mildly, far from that many BME folks engage with such groups, there are too many self appointed community 'leaders,' and I suspect that many of those already motivated enough to be involved in such groups are perhaps already more likely to vote. Canvassing should reach a much more representative spread of individuals, which is what I would aim to do if I was serious in my intentions to raise voter participation.

It was the nature of MrBC's dismissal of the idea that was a little depressing and perhaps indicative. Why so opposed?

Edit to add; The 'black' in OBV refers to all BME residents I believe.

 

[pootle]

However, unlike Pootle, I don't see working with community and voluntary groups as necessarily the best way to increase the vote..

I didn't want to give the impression it was the bestway, more better than nothing. Something like OBV would be ideal, but Lambeth simply don't have the money. Following on from your point about the VCS, those groups may also have an agenda and be encouraging their users to VOTE in a particular way, rather than just registering.

In the same vein, I'd like to see campaigns to encourage da apathetic yoot to be registered too, but sadly the money isn't there.

And there's no point in banging on about money that's been spent elsewhere, because it as simplistic and unhelpful as people saying things like "Why can't we cut the defence budget and spend it on hospital/school/donkeys instead"

In an ideal world, there would be proper citizenship classes on the curriculum so everyone would understand the importance of voting, along with a pot of statutory funding available to promote registering to vote.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

In the same vein, I'd like to see campaigns to encourage da apathetic yoot to be registered too, but sadly the money isn't there.

There is such a campaign, see 1824 collective website which is all part of the Get London Registered campaign I mentioned earlier on, which is being supported by the DCA, the London Mayor, the Electoral Commission, the Association of London Government, Operation Black Vote, the Commission for Racial Equality and other voluntary organisations.

With so many people supporting the idea, thats why its somewhat disturbing that Lambeth said no piss off initially.

edited cos i fecked the quote up

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Originally Posted by Brixton Hatter
Let's face it, the tories would lose votes if more ethnic minorities were registered to vote in Lambeth.

Originally Posted by MrBC

Lambeth has only 2 wards where the tories hold all 3 seats, out of 21. One of those wards, Gipsy Hill, has the 3rd higherst proportion of BME voters in the borough, at just over 49% of the electorate. Gipsy Hill has the highest Conservative majority in the borough.

Whatever. You got lucky
Either way, is it not still true to say that BME voters are less likely to vote tory? And is it not true to say that the tories are likely to lose seats if more ethnic minorities were registered to vote in Lambeth?

Your position in Lambeth is teetering on the brink - lose a few seats and the Lib Dems will tell you to lump it. Or they might not get in at all. Then you'll be back in the political wilderness. Again.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Fabulous! A post that combines factual inaccuracy with a back-door accusation of racism.

And don't you dare accuse me of racism - read my post above with my logical reasons as to my view.

And remember that you represent the party that tried to stoke the fires of racism with those immigration billboard ads during the general election campaign.

 

[intertonic]

Come to a Demonstration
To protest at Lambeth Council’s
cancellation of a voter registration canvass
TONIGHT
outside the front entrance of Lambeth Town Hall, Brixton.
-At least 31, 000 adults are not registered to vote in Lambeth
-A high proportion of those people are Black
-The administration will pay 700k in compensation to the outgoing chief executive but refuses to pay 60k to give thousands of Black people a political voice
-The Lib Dems and Tories claim registering them to vote is not "value for money"

Speakers include Lee Jasper, Simon Woolley, and Lorna Campbell.
​

 

[pootle]

Is there any actual, proper proof, about the ethnicity of people who AREN'T registered to vote?

where are people getting this information from?

 

[netbob]

It would also be interesting to know who is organising this?

 

[tarannau]

Is there any actual, proper proof, about the ethnicity of people who AREN'T registered to vote?

where are people getting this information from?

Maybe that's reason enough to canvass? Is the sheer number of people not registered to vote in Lambeth, regardless of race, not a reason to try and boost voter participation?

But more seriously there are some indicative facts already in this thread. not perfect, but I doubt you'll get much from refusing to participate in programmes like OBV either.

I note MrBC has gone conveniently quiet...

 

[pootle]

Maybe that's reason enough to canvass? Is the sheer number of people not registered to vote in Lambeth, regardless of race, not a reason to try and boost voter participation?

If that's the case, then that's what Lambeth needs, and therefore it makes even less sense as to why people are getting their knickers in a twist over Lambeth turning down OBV.

I'm sure Lambeth are doing things to improve voter registration, such as working with community groups, and mail drops etc.

The point I'm (and struggling with it!) trying to make is that there is no clear link (I think) between people's ethnicity and their registering to vote, thus people are getting all wound up over nothing, and trying to make a race issue out of nothing!

 

[intertonic]

It would also be interesting to know who is organising this?

I thinks its the Lambeth's 1990 Trust, Lambeth Law Centre and others supported by OBV and the Black Londoners Forum.

Is there any actual, proper proof, about the ethnicity of people who AREN'T registered to vote?

where are people getting this information from?

Shamit Saggar-Sussex University, Mohammad Anwar-Warwick University, Ed Fieldhouse-Manchester University will all corroborate the various stats about black voter under registration. I am sure organisations like OBV, the CRE, the Electoral Commission, have done polling and reports on the above too. Also The DCA Elections Minister was at Old Kent Road Mosque a week ago and she was quoting stats from her own department findings from I think late Summer 2005.

 

[lang rabbie]

Question on tonight's full council meeting agenda:

25. Response rates for Lambeth Wards for 2006 register

By: Councillor Paul McGlone
To: Leader of the Council – Councillor Peter Truesdale

Can the Leader of the Council explain the factors that have contributed to the wildly divergent response rates for each of Lambeth wards as part of the 2006 Election Register canvass, and can he provide an analysis against the 2005 register for all Members to see? What are the reasons for this divergence and would he agree that a return rate of approximately 50% in any ward is completely unacceptable and should be investigate independently? Electoral Registration provided the following figures for
the 2006 return rates in late December as follows:

Bishops...............61.87%
Princes 61.83%
Oval 61.42%
Stockwell 68.33%
Vassall 53.64%
Ferndale 52.65%
Larkhall 82.28%
Clapham Town 86.94%
Coldharbour 63.72%
Herne Hill 77.79%
Thurlow Park 63.65%
Knights Hill 81.88%
Gipsy Hill 88.36%
Tulse Hill 82.69%
Brixton Hill 77.90%
Clapham Common 73.00%
Thornton 63.49%
Streatham Hill 70.74%
Streatham Wells 76.66%
St Leonards 78.66%
Streatham South 60.25%

Borough Wide % was 70.95

 

[tarannau]

Just on a hunch and local knowledge, I would suspect that Ferndale and Vassell wards have proportionately high BME populations, particularly as they include large estates like Myatt's fields and Stockwell Park.

Which tends to suggest that MrBC was wrong to dismiss these concerns out of hand wouldn't it?

 

[lang rabbie]

According to the 2001 census, 58.6% of Ferndale residents described themselves as white, compared to 62.4% in Lambeth as a whole. For the "super output area" corresponding to much of the Stockwell Park Estate that falls to 38.2%. Indeed, IIRC Ferndale is unusual among Lambeth wards in that the BME population has fallen substantially as a proportion of the total since 1991.

In Vassall, 50.9% descibed themselves as white. For the SOA covering part of Myatts Fields the equivalent figure was 38.1%

Age, ethnicity, economic status, educational attainment and housing tenure are all explanatory variables for both voter registration rates and turnout (which is of course partly dependent on the accuracy of voter registration). No one factor can explain the variations.

 

[TeeJay]

Using my system of * (poorest) and xx (most well off):

Gipsy Hill 88.36%
* Tulse Hill 82.69%
xx Clapham Town 86.94%
* Larkhall 82.28%
Knights Hill 81.88%
xx St Leonards 78.66%
* Brixton Hill 77.90%
Herne Hill 77.79%
xx Streatham Wells 76.66%
xx Clapham Common 73.00%
xx Streatham Hill 70.74%
* Stockwell 68.33%
* Coldharbour 63.72%
xx Thurlow Park 63.65%
xx Thornton 63.49%
Bishops 61.87%
Princes 61.83%
Oval 61.42%
xx Streatham South 60.25%
* Vassall 53.64%
* Ferndale 52.65%

I don't think these figures show any clear connection between whatever it is that they are actually measuring and how deprived a ward is.

You have to bear in mind that working out what percentage of people are registered is difficult and all figures should be used with caution - this is because people who don't register to vote may also not return information to the census either, so comparing the two may not give any decent figures.

It is also not that helpful to simply count the number of properties that have noone regustered to vote, because there is not real way of knowing how many people actually live at each address.

From my own experience of door-to-door canvassing on Railton Road, using the electoral roll, I found whole blocks of properties where there was noone listed at all - or rather the houses numbers didn't even appear on the electoral roll! I also found a fair number of other inaccuracies.

Due to utter incompetance by Lambeth I even managed to run as a (Green Party) candidate but wasn't put on the voters register (yeah I can't work this one out either! I think they simply used old lists and didn't bother adding my name onto the list they sent to my local polling station), so I wasn't allowed to vote for myself!

The whole thing is a total joke in terms of representing "the electorate", although having said that, if people actually want to register to vote it is very easy to fill in the form or contact the local registrar - as long as you do it far enough in advance of an election (as I found out to my cost).