Lad wanted to blow up BNP...

[London Boy]

Well this lad plotted to kill and/or injure members of a legal and registered political party, so it was only right that he got arrested and hopefully will have a hard time in jail.

He may have been a loon, or a sad lonely and pathetic teenager with no friends and no life or he could have been a dangerous and violent political radical with dreams of terrorism, but regardless, none of that can excuse his actions.

 

[detective-boy]

... but surely you can't deny that if muslims had been convicted of detonating a nail bomb it would of had more media coverage & stiffer sentences.

I agree the media coverage would have been different (but that would have been due to the anti-Muslim approach of the media rather than anything else) but, in exactly the same circumstances (say some eccentric old Muslims stockpiling the shite in case the BNP won the next election or something), no, I don't think the charges or sentences would have been any / much different.

 

[detective-boy]

No the blokes who got 4-6 years were just waving placards about and shouting stuff out at a demo, they hadn't stock piled anything and weren't plotting anything.

Again you are comparing a situation in which there were immediate threats to specific violence now with one in which there was a conditional, potential (unlikely) need with no specific threat of any violence whatsoever. (BTW I think the 4-6 years were a bit excessive, to be honest)

 

[detective-boy]

Someone like that could easily do a David Copeland.

Anybody could do anything at any time.

Fortunately the law sentences people for things they have done, rather than things they might do.

 

[butchersapron]

Is that right? Conspiracy?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I remember sitting through a police interview with 3 of them stuck down the front of my pants, where I'd hurriedly shoved them when the police raided my house once.

Reading that made me squirm in sympathy!

 

[detective-boy]

Is that right? Conspiracy?

Yes. They have conspired (agreed / planned) to do something illegal. They're not convicted because they're a bit of a shower who may one day conspire to do something.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes. They have conspired (agreed / planned) to do something illegal. They're not convicted because they're a bit of a shower who may one day conspire to do something.

Fortunately the law sentences people for things they have done, rather than things they might do.

Something in the future maybe?

Don't give up the day job.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Well this lad plotted to kill and/or injure members of a legal and registered political party, so it was only right that he got arrested and hopefully will have a hard time in jail.

He may have been a loon, or a sad lonely and pathetic teenager with no friends and no life or he could have been a dangerous and violent political radical with dreams of terrorism, but regardless, none of that can excuse his actions.

Wow, an insightful post there.....

I agree the media coverage would have been different (but that would have been due to the anti-Muslim approach of the media rather than anything else) but, in exactly the same circumstances (say some eccentric old Muslims stockpiling the shite in case the BNP won the next election or something), no, I don't think the charges or sentences would have been any / much different.

Do me a favour, are you serious? You don't think judges might have an anti-muslim bias as well? If it had been muslims doing exactly the same thing it would have been all over the tabloids and first thing on the news bulletin and had absolutely massive coverage. Then there would have been demands for the book to be thrown at them and they would have gone down for a long, long time. If you seriously believe the above then no offence but you must be living in cloud cuckoo land.

Again you are comparing a situation in which there were immediate threats to specific violence now with one in which there was a conditional, potential (unlikely) need with no specific threat of any violence whatsoever. (BTW I think the 4-6 years were a bit excessive, to be honest)

So two blokes stock piling explosives and a rocket launcher isn't an immediate threat and isn't a specific threat and yet someone waving a placard is?! Are you serious?

Anybody could do anything at any time.

Fortunately the law sentences people for things they have done, rather than things they might do.

They could but most people aren't stock piling bomb materials and weapons or have far right fantasies of blowing up immigrants.

And waving a placard saying bomb the UK means that someone actually would bomb the UK where as these two blokes didn't intend to? One gets 4-6 years for having a distasteful placard. The other 2 and a half years for having huge stocks of bomb materials and a rocket launcher. If you wanna spin that then you're even better than Blair/Brown.

 

[London Boy]

Wow, an insightful post there.....

Are you saying that if this individual had actually carried out his intended terrorist act, that would have been good or something?

Also anyone, whatever ideology they claim to profess, who has plans or actually does carry out acts of mindless violence and death on other people, has issues mentally speaking, so my last post was not really meant to be an insult to the lad, just conjecturing a possible fact.

 

[detective-boy]

Do me a favour, are you serious? You don't think judges might have an anti-muslim bias as well? If it had been muslims doing exactly the same thing it would have been all over the tabloids and first thing on the news bulletin and had absolutely massive coverage. Then there would have been demands for the book to be thrown at them and they would have gone down for a long, long time. If you seriously believe the above then no offence but you must be living in cloud cuckoo land.

You are making a whole load of assumptions there. My experience of the Courts is that, for the most part, they sentence according to the facts of the case in front of them without influence by what the (uninformed) media think. There has been no "Muslim" case with similar facts so there's no way of knowing what the courts would have done with such a case.

So two blokes stock piling explosives and a rocket launcher isn't an immediate threat and isn't a specific threat and yet someone waving a placard is?! Are you serious?

Yes. Are you serious that you cannot see the difference?

And waving a placard saying bomb the UK means that someone actually would bomb the UK where as these two blokes didn't intend to? One gets 4-6 years for having a distasteful placard.

No. They didn't get 4-6 years for "having a distasteful placard". Congratulations on winning todays prize for most mendacious description.

They incited murder - i.e. they encouraged others to go and commit murder now.

 

[chymaera]

The other 2 and a half years for having huge stocks of bomb materials and a rocket launcher. If you wanna spin that then you're even better than Blair/Brown.

That had chemicals that could be made into explosives, (so have a lot of people in their homes whether they know it or not).
I realise I am wasting my time but I used to work for a firearms dealer who AT THE TIME (early 1980s) sold hundreds of rocket launchers at £80 a time perfectly legally as the rockets were no longer available.
Most of them were bought for wall ornemants.
Anyone attempting to make a home made rocket to go in the launchers and get the ignition mechanism to work would not have much chance of success.

 

[Wilson]

yeah but, if they had a copy of the anarchists cookbook they would have been able to

 

[DJ Squelch]

Most of them were bought for wall ornemants.

A rocket launcher above my fireplace would look lovely.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Are you saying that if this individual had actually carried out his intended terrorist act, that would have been good or something?

No I just couldn't see your point. To be honest though if someone blew up the BNP leadership I wouldn't say I'd exactly be upset for them! Having said that I think it would be a stupid thing to do as it would probably just boost BNP support through martrydom.

You are making a whole load of assumptions there. My experience of the Courts is that, for the most part, they sentence according to the facts of the case in front of them without influence by what the (uninformed) media think. There has been no "Muslim" case with similar facts so there's no way of knowing what the courts would have done with such a case.

But we're just gonna go round in circles here. I know for all certainty that if the case had been identical but it had been a muslim then the book would have been thrown at them and they would have got a hell of a lot more than two and a half years. Because of the role you've had in life you see the courts as unbiased dishers out of fair justice (if not perfect), I see them entirely different and think judges are mainly uppers class fuckwits with all the usual prejudices of the upper classes.

Yes. Are you serious that you cannot see the difference?

I can clearly see the difference, can you?

No. They didn't get 4-6 years for "having a distasteful placard". Congratulations on winning todays prize for most mendacious description.

They incited murder - i.e. they encouraged others to go and commit murder now.

I have absolutely no time for people waving those kinda placards with "Bomb the UK" and the rest but at the end of the day that's what they were doing, waving placards. And I've often heard just as distasteful chants at football matches to be honest.

At the end of the day someone gets 4-6 years for waving a placard saying "bomb the UK".

Another bloke got 4 years for shouting out that UK troops should come home in body bags from Iraq, at the end of the day why shouldn't he say that? Would I get 4-6 years for saying that insurgents in Iraq should all end up in body bags?

But all that aside whatever way you look at it the sentences are insane.

i) 4-6 years for waving a placard saying "Bomb the UK" because he was inciting murder.....

ii) 2 and a half years for the biggest stock pile of bomb materials ever and a rocket launcher.....but he was an honest bloke. Out by Christmas.

 

[cockneyrebel]

That had chemicals that could be made into explosives, (so have a lot of people in their homes whether they know it or not).
I realise I am wasting my time but I used to work for a firearms dealer who AT THE TIME (early 1980s) sold hundreds of rocket launchers at £80 a time perfectly legally as the rockets were no longer available.
Most of them were bought for wall ornemants.
Anyone attempting to make a home made rocket to go in the launchers and get the ignition mechanism to work would not have much chance of success.

Yeap, honest bloke probably.

By the way even the bloke in question wasn't disputing that he was stock piling explosives, he pleaded guilty to it.

 

[chymaera]

A rocket launcher above my fireplace would look lovely.

I know where there is a torpedo for sale but you would need a big fireplace for that.

 

[ymu]

You are making a whole load of assumptions there. My experience of the Courts is that, for the most part, they sentence according to the facts of the case in front of them without influence by what the (uninformed) media think. There has been no "Muslim" case with similar facts so there's no way of knowing what the courts would have done with such a case.

Any predictions for October 23rd?
Or October 26th?

Not at all "similar", I grant you ...

 

[likesfish]

If I stockpile explosives and weapons because I believe the lizards are planning to invade I'm guilty cause I'm a nutter .
but unlikey to get the same sentence as if I believe gays are stealing my precious bodily fluids and have maps and photos of gay meeting places
still mad as a madthing but in the 2nd case its obvious I'm intent on mayhem and will stand up in court

 

[frogwoman]

Also because in the first case there's an obvious indication of a psychiatric disorder, whereas the second is pure homophobia basically.

 

[cockneyrebel]

If I stockpile explosives and weapons because I believe the lizards are planning to invade I'm guilty cause I'm a nutter .
but unlikey to get the same sentence as if I believe gays are stealing my precious bodily fluids and have maps and photos of gay meeting places
still mad as a madthing but in the 2nd case its obvious I'm intent on mayhem and will stand up in court

Although the bloke getting two and a half years didn't have a psychiatric disorder, his motive was his far right politics. And there was intent, he planned to carry out the act at a certain time in the future.

Not at all "similar", I grant you ...

Yeah I wonder what sentences these blokes will get. But you've got to ask yourself, are they honest blokes?

 

[likesfish]

when a civil race war broke out due to unlimited immigration
so completely rational I think it kicks off next tuesday

now if he was targeting mosques etc then he'd be inside for a much longer time.
he's a Nazi fuckwit thats not a crime. bb guns and crossbows are not illegal
niether is a deact rocket launcher.
stockpiling explosives is.
you could form a Muslim militia ponce around in combat clothing and brandish crossbows and as long as it was on your own property the police couldn't touch you. start talking about jihad against the kaffirs and your nicked

 

[chymaera]

bb guns and crossbows are not illegal
niether is a deact rocket launcher.
stockpiling explosives is.

I would hazard a guess most houses in Britain have precursor chemicals for explosives in them. That is not the same as actual explosives.

 

[cockneyrebel]

when a civil race war broke out due to unlimited immigration
so completely rational I think it kicks off next tuesday

now if he was targeting mosques etc then he'd be inside for a much longer time.
he's a Nazi fuckwit thats not a crime. bb guns and crossbows are not illegal
niether is a deact rocket launcher.
stockpiling explosives is.
you could form a Muslim militia ponce around in combat clothing and brandish crossbows and as long as it was on your own property the police couldn't touch you. start talking about jihad against the kaffirs and your nicked

A race war breaking out is hardly likely is it, but at the same time it hardly puts someone in the same boat as someone who thinks lizards are ruling the earth. Mainstream politicians have said the same thing, Enoch Powell being one of them and indeed the bloke in question said Enoch Powell was his inspiration. Whatever way you look at it it was his intention to start blowing up immigrants under given circumstances. Now however unlikely you might think a rivers of blood situation is it's still clearly intent.

If a muslim had stockpiled explosives and said I'm gonna start blowing up people if the UK invades Syria do you think he'd only be given a light sentence on the basis that the UK invading Syria is extremely unlikely at the moment?

We'll see what sentences the blokes get in the links above.

As said above whatever way you look at it how can someone waving a placard saying "bomb the UK" be given 4-6 years and yet someone stock piling the biggest ever haul of explosives is given 2 and half years and called an "honest bloke" by the detective inspector.

 

[cockneyrebel]

I would hazard a guess most houses in Britain have precursor chemicals for explosives in them. That is not the same as actual explosives.

As I've already said the bloke admitted he was stock piling explosives, he pleaded guilty to the charge.

 

[cockneyrebel]

I would hazard a guess most houses in Britain have precursor chemicals for explosives in them. That is not the same as actual explosives.

......

When questioned, Mr Cottage told police it was a coincidence that he had bought a batch of chemicals just days after printing off recipes for explosive devices from the internet.

He told the court on Friday that he could not explain why detailed instructions for making a Molotov cocktail, a pipe hand grenade and dynamite were in his possession.

 

[chymaera]

A race war breaking out is hardly likely is it,

It wouldn't surprise me in some areas of Britain where race relations are tense, if a localised war broke out.

 

[cockneyrebel]

It wouldn't surprise me in some areas of Britain where race relations are tense, if a localised war broke out.

Well that just backs up even more that the bloke had intent and how biased it was that he got 2 and a half years.

 

[detective-boy]

I know for all certainty ...

With such self-confidence in your all-seeing knowledge, are you the Messiah?

 

[detective-boy]

And there was intent, he planned to carry out the act at a certain time in the future.

Was there? Please link to the source for that assertion.

(PS: "I know for certain" won't be convincing enough here ...)