nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Powerbase has an article on them.
Labour & Anti-Semitism.
- Thread starter cantsin
- Start date
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Well no - but there is a bit of difference between "Labour councillor suspended from the party for tweeting that Hitler was the 'greatest man in history'", and "Labour councillor suspended from the party for tweeting that Hitler was the 'greatest man in history', when she was fifteen".
Pugnax
Well-Known Member
More broadly, in all my experience in (radical and centre) left politics I've never come across even a hint of anti-semitism. In fact, when I was a teenager I lived in a house with a load of anarchist types and was involved in a lot of pro-Palestine demos and meetings because of it. I was pretty half-assed politically and was mainly friends with most of them through diy music stuff, so maybe I didn't pick up on all the nuances, but even from the people that were volunteering in Palestine I never heard a bad word said against Jewish people, the religion itself or even Israel as a state. It was very much focused on anti-authoritarianism, anti-imperialism and the UK weapon trade. In fact, embarrassingly enough, for about a year before I started actually making an effort to follow things a bit more, I didn't even really know that Israel was explicitly a Jewish country, that's how little that factor came into play. It's also worth noting that I don't think that the Israel/Palestine issue was over represted in their concerns or activism (this is always an accusation that gets thrown at the left, "why are you so concerned about Israel, what about xyz issue?")
Maybe there were undercurrents of anti-semitism that I was too naieve or clueless to pick up on, but it's worth bearing in mind that plenty of the people I knew involved were Jewish, and cared very deeply about their heritige and had absolutely no problem with getting involved in even very direct action.
Maybe there were undercurrents of anti-semitism that I was too naieve or clueless to pick up on, but it's worth bearing in mind that plenty of the people I knew involved were Jewish, and cared very deeply about their heritige and had absolutely no problem with getting involved in even very direct action.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
I guess if someone goes trawling through your twitter account its going to look bad and will need some explaining rather difficult to just ignore.
Cloo
Banana for scale
The Jewish Chronicle has been going mad lately trying to present Corbyn and co as antisemtic, or not worthy of our trust, but I really can't see it myself. I agree it just seems to be a few weirdos on Twitter, and I suspect other parties have just as many such twats in their rank.
I do think there is sometimes a problem with antisemitism on the hard left, with people sometimes getting into bed with groups that have dodgy views when they have a mutual campaigning area, but I don't think it is a problem of the parliamentary Labour party.
I do think there is sometimes a problem with antisemitism on the hard left, with people sometimes getting into bed with groups that have dodgy views when they have a mutual campaigning area, but I don't think it is a problem of the parliamentary Labour party.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
examples ?
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
The JC is an awful paper and shouldn't be taken very seriously. It is daily mailesque in its hysteria.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
The fuckwit "who came out we are all hezbollah"
is the classic.
Most of the middle east has the protocols of elders of zion for sale
most palestenians dont really care much for the diffrence between Israeli and Jew understanably .
So any contact with any palestinian or arab group is going to run into people who think the only good jew is a dead jew.
is the classic.Most of the middle east has the protocols of elders of zion for sale
most palestenians dont really care much for the diffrence between Israeli and Jew understanably .So any contact with any palestinian or arab group is going to run into people who think the only good jew is a dead jew
.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
The JC is crazy these days. I read the headlines about the "anti-semitism" that they had found in the Labour Party last week and I was expecting the usual from some mad idiot in a Labour Party backwater and all they had were a series of quotes that - at worst - were borderline. EG comparing the tunnels dug into Gaza with those dug into the Warsaw Ghetto - I mean this isn't anti-semitic at all, the comparison is clear. Anyone who follows Israeli political discourse knows that comparisons to Hitler and/or the Nazis is a routine epithet between Israeli politicians - in fact it's pretty routine to go much worse - Sonderkommando etc. The Jewish Chronicle should be ignored on anti-semitism for the time being.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Tbh, I think it's over-exaggerated. I can't say I've met any anti-Semites on the so-called 'hard left'. However, I encounter plenty of anti-Semites who are Kippers and Zeitgeist types, all of whom flock to comments threads on newspaper websites and share their ugly views with fellow nut-jobs on Twitter.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Indeed and it's become much worse since Stephen Pollard became its editor. BBC Breakfast presenters 'Simpering' Sian Williams and Bill 'Old Etonian' Turnbull allowed Pollard to shout down and talk over Ken Loach during a live studio 'discussion' in the days before the Iraq invasion. I'll never forget that.
Cloo
Banana for scale
I wish people did ignore it - it's grist to the mill of certain types in the US (like my one of my husband's uncles) who hear about the sorts of things it says and really seem to believe that the UK/Europe is some kind of Islamic state that's one step away fro another Kristallnacht, whereas it is actually Muslims whose freedoms and rights are under threat.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
The internet is a real boon to these types. It allows them to read so much and yet learn nothing.
crossthebreeze
Well-Known Member
In my (limited) experience the few Palestinian people i've come across in the uk have been very careful and reasonable in the language and arguments - including when speaking at Palestine solidarity rallys. Its always been middle class white english people or the occasional muslim with a background nowhere near the region, who have used zionist/israeli/jewish interchangably, the "we are all hezbollah" bollox, or come out with more grossly anti-semitic stuff.The fuckwit "who came out we are all hezbollah"
Most of the middle east has the protocols of elders of zion for sale
So any contact with any palestinian or arab group is going to run into people who think the only good jew is a dead jew
Tom A
Goat among sheep
I follow someone on Twitter who often calls out people on the left (particularly the Labour Party) for following and rewteeting anti-Semites, mostly of the "Israel the Zionists the Rothschilds da Joooooos rule the world" variety - and the people that are being followed/retweeted are indeed guilty of pushing anti-Semitic discourse. Usually they don't retweet the anti-Semitic tweets, but it's still no different to people who just casually share stuff from Britain First. Unfortunately IME there is a overlap among the fringes (and sadly not so fringe) parts of the left and the Zeitgeist types/David Icke fan club - and in my area the issue is endemic particularly amongst the anti-fracking campaigns, anti-homelessness campaigns and the remnants of Occupy. Also the pro-Palestine campaigns again have plenty of dodgy "we are all Hamas/Hezbollah" types in their midst too - and whilst you do not have to be anti-Semitic to criticise the Israeli government, it is not hard to see why such campaigns attract anti-Semites.
Tom A
Goat among sheep
I once crossed paths with a Palestinian who turned out to be a 9/11 troother after a Left Unity meeting.
I know that this is certainly not indicative of the thoughts of every Palestinian alive today, but still not someone who was "very careful in their language and arguments".butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They're very likely - these types - to not be labour members, in fact to hate labour. Possibly for reasons not far removed from anti-semitism
Tom A
Goat among sheep
There was a big furore surrounding Cambridge Momentum regarding such people though.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I bet they were from the part that aren't labour members though.
Tom A
Goat among sheep
If so, is it any wonder why Momentum tends to be very wary at best, hostile at worst to any other left organisations other than the Labour Party?
Thing is, in an organisation with as many members as the Labour Party (and indeed the left within the Labour Party, which probably has more people in it than the rest of the left put together), there will be unfortunately be a a few dodgy people trying to creep in (as is true of any campaign or movement sadly) - and if the Labour left is not careful the Blairites will seize on any chance to discredit them.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's exactly what this failed attempt is isn't it?If so, is it any wonder why Momentum tends to be very wary at best, hostile at worst to any other left organisations other than the Labour Party?
Thing is, in an organisation with as many members as the Labour Party (and indeed the left within the Labour Party, which probably has more people in it than the rest of the left put together), there will be unfortunately be a a few dodgy people trying to creep in (as is true of any campaign or movement sadly) - and if the Labour left is not careful the Blairites will seize on any chance to discredit them.
Not quite sure what you mean in the first bit btw - isn't Momentum basically all the other groups (minus sp and swp) pretending to be labour?
Tom A
Goat among sheep
In some places you could add Left Unity (another group that wants to support Labour under Corbyn without being part of Labour) to that list. It varies throughout the country in regards to its acceptance of non-Labour members, in Manchester I have generally heard cautiously positive things from those who are in the Labour Party (most of which state that the main move is to keep out the SP and SWP, something I can understand even if I am not sure if I wholly agree), and somewhat negative things from from one former Green who is now in Labour plus my friends I know from Left Unity.
The fuckwit "who came out we are all hezbollah"
Most of the middle east has the protocols of elders of zion for sale
So any contact with any palestinian or arab group is going to run into people who think the only good jew is a dead jew
Fuckwits, there were plenty more than one, i can recall senior SWP members excusing them as well, saying that they are oppressed so do bad things, thats the WAAH lot, btw.
Tom A
Goat among sheep
Well the SWP took their time dissociating with Gilad Atzmon, even when evidence of how virulently anti-Semitic he is started mounting up.
The NUS have elected a new President, Malia Bouattia, who has recently been accused of anti-Semitism. Again, it seems as though her strong anti-Zionist views have caused concern among some (she once wrote that 'The University of Birmingham is something of a Zionist outpost in British Higher Education'). Her critics have also raised concerns that she's close to the anti-Semitic Muslim Public Affairs Committee, primarily because she once wrote 'thank you' on Facebook in response to a supportive message from its spokesperson. She's obviously denied these accusations, and claimed that she is only anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
blimey, more hoo - ha on wit's way then - can anyone save a busy ( lazy) interested party time / effort and link to anything with any degree of objectivity re: the "allegations " against her , initial search not throwing uo anything of use ?
( is the Muslim Public Affairs Committee actually 'anti semitic' in any demonstrable way ?)
Graun taking slightly more positive angle for once : (sure it won't last)
NUS elects first female black Muslim president after tense contest
Last edited:
A senior representative of a controversial UK Muslim group, banned from many UK campuses due to their spreading of anti-Semitic propaganda, has described an initiative led by Jewish university society presidents as indicative of a wider “Zio lobby”.
In a Facebook status posted on Saturday, Raza Nadim, spokesman for the London-based Muslim Public Affairs Council, which purports to “focus on non-violent jihad”, hit out against the “power of the Zio lobby”.
Nadim finishes his diatribe with this lovely comment showing his apparent true beliefs, “(Also, just to let the Zios know who check out my FB and Twitter – I’m not fazed at all about this – I’m used to your tactics and every time you mention me or MPACUK it proves that we’re doing something right. If anything, it’s made me hate you even more and criticise Israel even more. You really shouldn’t poke a tiger, you terrorist-sympathising p×××ks)”.
AntiSemitism Watch
This was a reply by MPAC to the criticisms of Bouattia and wider critiques of MPAC.
btw, the above site while having some very valid articles on what is happening in EU/Baltics, should be approached with the same caution as Bob Pitts Islamophobia Watch.
update apparently, MPAC or one of their apparatchiks, posted the below
Last edited:
Does the National Union of Students believe inclusivity will be delivered by prospective president?
15th April 2016 Leave a comment
The UK National Union of Students (NUS) has often shown itself incapable of providing the type of inclusive governance or leadership that allows all views and beliefs to flourish or feel welcomed. Jewish students have, in particular, experienced the sense of isolation the actions and decisions of the NUS generates.
As the troubled organisation staggers towards its annual conference next week, Jewish students have the unhappy prospect of a potential new president who is currently facing accusations of “anti-Semitism” ahead of her bid to become the organisation’s new leader.
Malia Bouattia, who presently serves as black students officer, has faced mounting criticism over an article she co-authored five years ago in which she described the University of Birmingham as “something of a Zionist outpost”, and for alleged links with an organisation currently blacklisted by the NUS.
She said on Thursday that her political views had been “misconstrued” by those accusing her of anti-Semitism.
An open letter addressed to Bouattia and signed by 56 Jewish society presidents, suggested that, “Describing large Jewish societies as a challenge is the politics of division and not solidarity which should be the case.”
The letter highlights a 2011 blog post, co-authored by Bouattia, which lists a large Jewish society among the challenges at Birmingham University.
“The University of Birmingham is something of a Zionist outpost,” the article read.
This prompted the open letter to ask: “Why do you see a large Jewish Society as a problem?”
Read the letter in full, here.
The letter goes on to allege that she held links with an organisation previously “no-platformed” by the NUS. The Muslim Public Affairs Committee UK (MPACUK) was banned by the NUS from university campuses in 2004 for anti-Semitic propaganda.
MPACUK used its website to promote the idea of a worldwide Zionist conspiracy, and included the reproduction of articles originally published on neo-Nazi and Holocaust denial websites.
MPACUK even posted “Take your holocaust, roll it nice and tight and shove it up your (be
creative)!” on their Facebook page in 2013.
Bouattia further stoked controversy in 2014 when she railed against a motion which condemned the so-called Islamic State.
Bouattia used her Facebook campaign page to post an open response to the Jewish students’ letter.
She wrote: “I do not now, nor did I five years ago when I contributed to the article cited in your letter, see a large Jewish Society on campus as a problem.
“I want to be clear that for me to take issue with Zionist politics, is not me taking issue with being Jewish.
She continued: “I am deeply concerned that my faith and political views are being misconstrued and used as an opportunity to falsely accuse me of antisemitism, despite my work and dedication to liberation, equality and inclusion saying otherwise.”
Yet the Jewish student society presidents letter also highlighted how, “Just recently you explained at an event at SOAS that the government Prevent strategy is the result of a so-called ‘Zionist lobby’. By peddling these conspiracy theories to student audiences we are concerned that you are creating an element of suspicion towards Jewish students on campus.”
The NUS said on Thursday it would not comment on the open letter because “it is too close to the election,” taking place in Brighton next Wednesday.
The Union of Jewish Students (UJS) said: “Jewish students are rightly outraged when they see a candidate for NUS president who sees their Jewish Societies as a threat.
“Jewish students are rightly scared when they see a candidate associating themselves with organisations with a history of antisemitism and they are once again used as an easy target for conspiracy theories.”
If she opposed a motion against IS, she really does need to explain herself.
Similar threads
- Poll
