Labour + Anti Semitism

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by cantsin, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Freedland - perhaps unwittingly, perhaps wittingly - signals his allegiance in the final sentence. There are not, and shouldn't be, any "sacred cows". There should not be a taboo on comparison of Jews with Nazis, if the actions of Jews warrant it.
  2. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Yes I read the holocaust industry book, it was a requirement as a right-on student, if you were going to go on the Palestine marches which I did along with everyone else. In the intervening years have thought about stuff a bit more and now think that book and the man himself are abysmal.
    Please don’t quote me just carry on amongst yourselves because I (honestly) can’t do chat this subject and feel ok it’s the only topic I can’t remain calm on and should never have said anything. It does not, or shouldn’t, matter to me at all what people on this website reckon on this topic.

    This is what I’ve got re Fink & Irv’s correspondence.These are form a book called the jewish divide over Israel- accusers & defenders by Bognador & Alexander

    It quotes Irving plugging Finkelstein by saying “We have corresponded in past years.. I am sure that many Americans will want to see and hear this brave man”. (p147)

    Goes on to say “Finkelstein not only enjoys cordial relations with Hitler apologists such as Irving, but readily grants interviews to the kind of bigot who identifies his work as “a comprehensive picture of the great plot of International Jewery [sic]..a blessing for all holocaust deniers..The book really provides all a professional negationist requires; Jewish plot, Israeli Zionism, greed”. (148)- the ref link to second one as given in the book no longer works and the first was Irvings twitter.

    So the word I read was cordial & I turned it into ‘friendly’, whatever. And if this is untrue it still wouldn’t change what I think of the book because the meaning of a thing is its use iykwim. over & out
  3. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

  4. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Fucking pathetic. Fuck off.
    redsquirrel and Pickman's model like this.
  5. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Bogdnaor is the same non-reffed person in the other jewish post article.

    This is circulatory squalid
    Sue likes this.
  6. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    That's your big list of quotes and refs bimble? That's it?

    McCarthy it is.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  7. CNT36

    CNT36 Not carbon nano tubes

    That's that cleared up then.
  8. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    So nothing from Finkelstein himself then? Basically Irving trolling and bigging himself up and suggesting he has written to Finkelstein then others repeating the same lies as Freedland but it's okay because the meaning of a word is in it's use?

    Intemperate...on this thread also being used to mean dishonest.
  9. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Go on...the floor is yours
    Pickman's model likes this.
  10. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Co-editor of an opus called The Anti-Chomsky Reader, to which he contributed an article explaining why Chomsky hates Israel. He's a fucking clown.
  11. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Disgusting behaviour bimble. And one written in the post of yours i replied to first thing,
    redsquirrel and Pickman's model like this.
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

  13. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Classic bimble
    Pickman's model likes this.
  14. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Utterly pathetic, you make deliberate smear and won't even pretend to defend it. This is the same type of shit you've pulled ever since you started to post on U75.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  15. Humirax

    Humirax Guest

    I've gotta say, unless I'm missing something- which I don't think I am, I find it hard to believe that a guy who is not only jewish but whose family suffered and perished (in some cases) in the holocaust has nazi sympathies. I think I'm right in saying that most of his family were murdered by the nazis. I also believe that this fact was a motivation for Finkelstein writing The Holacaust Industry, atleast this is what he claims in his book and he explains that in detail.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2018
  16. Knotted

    Knotted Sweet when you stir it up

    The NCC on Greenstein here:

    OK he's abusive online and there is an undertone of sexism in there but I'm not seeing any evidence of bullying and harassment. Personally I don't have much time for him and he hasn't done himself any favours but all that's beside the point. You've got to have the right to be personal and to shame people. There'll be others who don't meet the criteria of enforced politeness.
  17. 19force8

    19force8 For the avoidance of faith

  18. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    The 91 page report

    Looks like racist shit like atzmon being shared - and what does look like a skim positive refs to protocols of elders of zion, holocaust deniers like Paul Eisen etc. Need to read it proper to determine if it's being shared within the group when Corbyn and Paul mason (the latter is a member today) etc are members or if it's supporting evidence of members posting this stuff elsewhere. Either way these people sharing this stuff are in this group with high level labour participation.

    edit: wow every disgusting anti-semitic trope and conspiracy going appears to be there.
  19. 19force8

    19force8 For the avoidance of faith

    Yep, there's some real shit there.Thanks for the link.

    I've had half an hour to zip through it now and I'm sure the report itself does not justify the attack on Corbyn, Walker et al that follow in the press. In fact the reports conclusions are in themselves quite extraordinary:

    Which is a pity, because a decent report could have gone a long way to expose the anti-semites that try to attach themselves to the Palestinian cause.
  20. 19force8

    19force8 For the avoidance of faith

    Googled the author (David Collier) on the train home. It seems he has form:

    Ofir demolishes David Collier

    Again, the pity is there is a case for dealing with the problem of anti-semitites latching onto the PSC, but this fuckwit just serves to label such criticism as pro-zionist propaganda
  21. 8ball

    8ball Considerably more oppressed than yow

    They'd have to be going some to warrant it, but the principle is sound.
  22. 19force8

    19force8 For the avoidance of faith

    Will this do?

    Palestinian Schoolteacher Mauled by Israeli Military Dog as Soldiers Watch
    Bursting into a schoolteacher’s house in the middle of the night, soldiers sicced their dog on him. The dog bit him and held on, as his family looked on, horrified

    Palestinian schoolteacher mauled by Israeli military dog as soldiers watch [edit] Sorry, paywall.

    It's copied here by Tony Greenstein: Tony Greenstein's Blog: Another Nazi custom - Israel's use of biting dogs against Palestinians
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  23. 8ball

    8ball Considerably more oppressed than yow

    Conflating Jews generally with the Israeli Government?
  24. 19force8

    19force8 For the avoidance of faith

    I've edited my reply to this disingenuous shit three times now. I really should calm down.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  25. Idris2002

    Idris2002 Christmas eve, you know?

    Surely Corbyn doesn't manage his own facebook a/c, though?

    And yes, the pro-Israel are probably trying to cynically exploit this one, and others like it - but it should never have been allowed to get this far. There should have been far greater, visceral intolerance for anything that even smelt slightly of anti-semitism, and this wouldn't be happening now.
    frogwoman likes this.
  26. copliker

    copliker ...

    He doesn't say which 21st century wire people are members of the group. Beeley I assume.

    collier 21st century wire.jpg
  27. agricola

    agricola a genuine importer of owls

    I disagree - this was always going to happen as long as Corbyn was in charge. Even a complete renunciation of and apology for his previous views on Palestine, and a purge of anyone who held views that matched whatever the definition of anti-semitic behaviour that would satisfy the likes of Collier and Phillipps was, wouldn't have satisfied them - they only want him out. Just take a look at some of the stuff the people who speak for LabourAgainstAS are putting out on twitter to see the truth of that.
    likesfish likes this.
  28. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    I agree that the motivations for the attacks are absolutely nothing to do with opposing antisemitism, and that there would still be attacks regardless of what UK Labour did, but a hardcore opposition to any hint of it internally would made it harder.

    More importantly it would just be the right thing to do. I'm much less concerned about press attacks on Corbyn than antisemitic poisoning of discussion of middle eastern politics, capitalism, the media and all the other places where it continues to pop up and be handwaved at. I was reading defences of Farrakhan's anti-semitism today ffs - not on the basis of "this is an issue being exploited to attack the civil rights movement and we shouldn't play to their tune" or even "okay that was bad but look at all the inspiring other things he says" but "oh well it's complicated" or "but who are the real semites?".
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
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  29. 19force8

    19force8 For the avoidance of faith

    I'm not sure that's right.

    In recent years I've seen virtually no evidence for committed anti-semitism in the Labour Party or on the UK left generally. As in any movement made up of every level from experienced hacks to naive newcomers there are some careless or thoughtless ideas/talk knocking around, but the way to deal with that is through argument, discussion and education, not "zero tolerance," suspensions and expulsions.

    How would you define this "hint" of anti-semitism?

    I'm pretty sure the author of the report sees any criticism of Israel or of Zionism as full on, sieg-heilling anti-semitism. You won't satisfy them without purging all such criticism, and perhaps not even then.

    When that's done some people will look at the actions of Israel and say "if it's anti-semitic to oppose oppression then I must be anti-semitic." In that way good people are thrown into the arms of the conspiraloons.

    The best way to deal with this is campaign resolutely against both Zionism and anti-semitism within the Labour Party, and show in practice that one isn't the opposite of the other.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
    Pwerus and Idris2002 like this.
  30. Pwerus

    Pwerus Done here

    So much this. We've seen it with the government in the past few years, all the big social media networks - censoring possibly controversial opinions doesn't make them go away - it just pushes people to extremes. People should be free to criticize the Israeli government without this aggressive label.

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