KP quits: Sky

[Matt S]

If this article is accurate, then it really does paint a sad picture of England's cricketers...bunch of *&^%ing children.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jan/09/england-cricket-team-allegiances

Matt

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Let's not get this out of proportion. He averages over 50. He is a very very good batsman who could become a true great if he applies himself in the right way.

Yes I agree. At the moment, though, if I wanted a swashbuckling batsman, I'd go for Sehwag.

Pietersen is probably about the 10th best batsman in the world at the moment. There are about a dozen current players with averages over 50 - it isn't the benchmark of greatness it once was.

 

[Santino]

Yes I agree. At the moment, though, if I wanted a swashbuckling batsman, I'd go for Sehwag.

If he consistently handle the new ball, KP would be an awesome opener. Imagine him dismantling the bowling attack for the first two sessions. The rest of the match would be a formality.

KP and Strauss might be a great partnership too. Big-hitter and gritty workman, left/right combination.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Could such a nervous starter open?

Maybe. Maybe it would cure his nerves.

 

[liquidlunch]

If this article is accurate, then it really does paint a sad picture of England's cricketers...bunch of *&^%ing children.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jan/09/england-cricket-team-allegiances

Matt

sounds plausable.

 

[paulhackett]

I'd drop one of either Cook or Strauss (or move one to 3) and pick Key and make him skipper in all forms of the game - in any scenario he would have to be better than Bell.. downside he's a mate of Freddie's, not in the team so could go a bit Chris Cowdery, plus side, left hand right hand opening combo etc etc..

After the Ashes Harmison, Panesar, Strauss, Collingwood will all be gone anyway, so you may as well chuck Bell in there as well and start again..

 

[Santino]

I'd drop one of either Cook or Strauss (or move one to 3) and pick Key and make him skipper in all forms of the game - in any scenario he would have to be better than Bell.. downside he's a mate of Freddie's, not in the team so could go a bit Chris Cowdery, plus side, left hand right hand opening combo etc etc..

After the Ashes Harmison, Panesar, Strauss, Collingwood will all be gone anyway, so you may as well chuck Bell in there as well and start again..

Kent had a shocking series of finals last year. Could have won any of four competitions and choked every time, and that must speak (in part) to Key's captaincy.

Cook needs to stop getting out to pointless shots in the 40s and 50s. He might be better at 3, a kind of Dravid dull-but-effective accumulator.

 

[Santino]

Could such a nervous starter open?

Maybe. Maybe it would cure his nerves.

It would be a risk, admittedly. But it might give him something to aspire to, something to focus his efforts on.

 

[agricola]

I'd drop one of either Cook or Strauss (or move one to 3) and pick Key and make him skipper in all forms of the game - in any scenario he would have to be better than Bell.. downside he's a mate of Freddie's, not in the team so could go a bit Chris Cowdery, plus side, left hand right hand opening combo etc etc..

After the Ashes Harmison, Panesar, Strauss, Collingwood will all be gone anyway, so you may as well chuck Bell in there as well and start again..

I would go for Key as well. I would much rather have a captain with a choking problem than a captain who wins fuck all and never looks like it.

 

[Santino]

I would go for Key as well. I would much rather have a captain with a choking problem than a captain who wins fuck all and never looks like it.

Like Strauss who's captained 5 Tests, won 3 (4?) and lost none?

 

[tangerinedream]

I disagree that Pietersen was the best candidate. He is the best batsman, but that does not mean he is suited to captaincy. Botham was a shit captain. As was Lara. Stars sometimes need to be left to do their thing, like Tendulkar has been.

Tendulkar has been captain of india twice. He was, though, pretty shit at it, which adds some weight to your theory.

Viv Richards was a decent captain though and also an absolute genius.

 

[dolly's gal]

he's quite fit an all... shame really

 

[tangerinedream]

I think Strauss will be fine, he's an intelligent bloke and has played a lot of test cricket, as well as having a decent track record as a captain. For me, the question now is about the bowling attack which I think seems toothless and aside from Freddie, doesn't really suggest anyone is a shoe in to be honest.

I don't think we have a single bowler with a test average under 30 irc at the moment, which is poor for a side with aspirations to be one of the top sides.

I do, however, think we can challenge Aus as they are a side shorn of 3 or 4 genius players and appear to have replaced them with some more average players - their results have been very similar to ours as well

 

[liquidlunch]

I do, however, think we can challenge Aus as they are a side shorn of 3 or 4 genius players and appear to have replaced them with some more average players - their results have been very similar to ours as well
you may well be right,the difference in our teams is we hardly ever recycle our players.Its fresh kids all the time.We may have 3-4 years of blooding new blokes,looking for the next Warne etc then get the mix right and another 16 years at the topwhilst the Poms are still looking for a long term captain

 

[tangerinedream]

I do, however, think we can challenge Aus as they are a side shorn of 3 or 4 genius players and appear to have replaced them with some more average players - their results have been very similar to ours as well
you may well be right,the difference in our teams is we hardly ever recycle our players.Its fresh kids all the time.We may have 3-4 years of blooding new blokes,looking for the next Warne etc then get the mix right and another 16 years at the topwhilst the Poms are still looking for a long term captain

The players you have lost weren't good because they were 'blooded' - Certainly Warne and Gilchrist (who arguably were the two players who gave you the edge over pretty much everyone as they were pretty much unique - only Murili compares to Warne and I can't think of a keeper who could touch Gilchrist) were incredable natural talents and there is no reason to think you won't go thirty years without finding another one. What makes you so confident you have a stack of not just world class players, but once in a generation, out of this world class players waiting to play?

It has taken England forever to find a half decent spinner, taken over 10 years to get toward replacing Ian Botham - Why won't Warne etc be the same? It's not like you have the population base of India - Look at how deep the malaise of the Windies has been since the end of the 'production line' of world class players - They dominated like you, for years and years but eventually the player dried up. Now, I think their situation is more serious as there are big questions about the set up, finances and popularity of Windies cricket which simlpy don't exist for you, but it does demonstrate that a long period of dominance means nothing in terms of the present if you don't have the next Ambrose, Marshall, Richards etc, waiting to go

I think it's likely Aussie will be struggling for a while - you will always be good, because your set up is excellent, but I think world domination is unlikely - you will now have to compete and will lose from time to time - How many matches would you have lost in the last 16 years had Warne, Mcgrath, Gilchrist, been just a little bit more, well, normal as their successors are likely to be.

 

[liquidlunch]

i really think that the way the game is run here plus identifying talent thru the Australian Institute of Sport is the main reasons we do well.Yes we have had some exceptional players but they have in turn kept other top players out.Ever hear of Stuart MacGill who would walk into any side on the globe,couldnt get a game as a leggy because of S.K.Warne.Brad Haddin waited until he was 32 to get a go behind the stumps gecause of Gilly.Batsmen are growing on fucken trees here mate.
Its a game that needs total support and dedication from the administration for the keeness to flow thru to all involved

 

[tangerinedream]

i really think that the way the game is run here plus identifying talent thru the Australian Institute of Sport is the main reasons we do well.Yes we have had some exceptional players but they have in turn kept other top players out.Ever hear of Stuart MacGill who would walk into any side on the globe,couldnt get a game as a leggy because of S.K.Warne.Brad Haddin waited until he was 32 to get a go behind the stumps gecause of Gilly.Batsmen are growing on fucken trees here mate.
Its a game that needs total support and dedication from the administration for the keeness to flow thru to all involved

Yes, of course I've heard of Stuart Macgill, but he's not about anymore. You aren't crowing about Beau Casson or any of your other spinners that were supposed to roll off the production line are you? That's the point.

Talking about Macgill and Warne is about as relevant as me talking about Wally Hammond and WG Grace. They are in the past now.

Unless Warne does have a comeback for the Ashes which I sincerly hope he doesn't...

I think you have every chance of winning the Ashes to be honest, I just don't think you are going to ruthlessly dominate World cricket again, I think it's another teams turn at the top and I reckon that the 'no1' tag might become a bit more fluid for the next period of cricket. I'm not saying you won't wear it, but I don't think anyone will keep it for that long for a while.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Tendulkar has been captain of india twice. He was, though, pretty shit at it, which adds some weight to your theory.

Viv Richards was a decent captain though and also an absolute genius.

No disrespect to Viv, but I think I could have made a decent fist of captaining that team.

I'd chuck the ball to the bowlers and hide myself at fine leg, then come in to bat at number 11 (maybe 10 if Courtney Walsh is in the team). Would still have whooped everyone.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Batsmen are growing on fucken trees here mate.

But what about bowlers? The best team in the world is always the team with the best bowling attack.

 

[liquidlunch]

Warne will not play for Aust again.That would not be in the best interest of the team.Jason Krejza is a good offy who will play a lot more test cricket,Peter Siddle who against S.A.took 5 for 59 and 4 wickets in the second innings of the third test,on a highway,is an up and comming quick,Shaun Tait is comming back(he is faster than Lee)but sprays it a bit,Stuart Clarke will recover from his elbow complaint,Peter McDonald is a medium pacer who can bat,we got heaps old son.Plus we can bat down to 11(prob Stuart Clarke)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Tait has proved nothing yet. Neither has Siddle really. Krezja is a wicket-taker but gives away a lot of runs. Clark is well over 30 and when fast bowlers over 30 start getting injured, the end is often in sight.

 

[liquidlunch]

but it takes a year or two to adapt to the next level thus my prediction of 3-4 years before we get back to challenging for #1 spot again.You dont have to step into a side and perform brilliantly in every game.You must however carry your weight,alas Hayden must realise this now.For the ashes we will have S Clarke,M Johnstone,Lee(maybe)Doug Bollinger(fast)S Tait and A McDonald to choose from.Then we have a couple of all rounders as well S Watson and A Symonds who bowl a bit.B Hilfinhaus and N Hauritz are also useful reserves.I know there will be a few losses but we expect that.It makes winning all that much sweeter when the experiance gained over 2 or 3 years starts to pay off.

 

[agricola]

but it takes a year or two to adapt to the next level thus my prediction of 3-4 years before we get back to challenging for #1 spot again.You dont have to step into a side and perform brilliantly in every game.You must however carry your weight,alas Hayden must realise this now.For the ashes we will have S Clarke,M Johnstone,Lee(maybe)Doug Bollinger(fast)S Tait and A McDonald to choose from.Then we have a couple of all rounders as well S Watson and A Symonds who bowl a bit.B Hilfinhaus and N Hauritz are also useful reserves.I know there will be a few losses but we expect that.It makes winning all that much sweeter when the experiance gained over 2 or 3 years starts to pay off.

Where the fuck did this Warner come from?

89 off 43 balls in the Twenty20. On debut.

 

[liquidlunch]

Where the fuck did this Warner come from?

89 off 43 balls in the Twenty20. On debut.

dunno but he has never played sheffield shield(your county cricket).Plays in the IPC is it or the IPL though.
Just casually sauntered off and announced he had lost concentration,next time he wont look around
"I will just belt it"

 

[JTG]

you may well be right,the difference in our teams is we hardly ever recycle our players.Its fresh kids all the time.We may have 3-4 years of blooding new blokes,looking for the next Warne etc then get the mix right and another 16 years at the topwhilst the Poms are still looking for a long term captain

Australia have hardly had any 'fresh kids' since Ponting, it's been a dozen years of giving 27 year olds their debuts

 

[liquidlunch]

Australia have hardly had any 'fresh kids' since Ponting, it's been a dozen years of giving 27 year olds their debuts

"kids" is an expression.New blood is the meaning.
Ricky Ponting 366 1995-2003 67

Brad Hogg 367 1996-2003 3

Matthew Elliott 368 1996-1999 20

Michael Kasprowicz 369 1996-2001 17

Jason Gillespie 370 1996-2003 43

Andrew Bichel 371 1997-2003 15

Shaun Young 372 1997 1

Simon Cook 373 1997 2

Stuart MacGill 374 1998-2003 23

Gavin Robertson 375 1998 4

Paul Wilson 376 1998 1

Adam Dale 377 1998-1999 2

Darren Lehmann 378 1998-2003 12

Colin Miller 379 1998-2001 18

Matthew Nicholson 380 1998 1

Adam Gilchrist 381 1999-2003 43

Scott Muller 382 1999 2

Brett Lee 383 1999-2003 31

Simon Katich 384 2001 1

Martin Love 385 2002-2003 3


thats till 2003,want me to get the rest up?

 

[paulhackett]

I don't understand your numbers or why you stopped at 2003?

 

[JTG]

I don't understand your numbers or why you stopped at 2003?

Neither do I. I think he's trying to justify a policy of bringing in the 'next in line' rather than genuinely young, fresh talent. Has worked for a while but can't see the point of blooding 30 year olds tbh

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Neither do I. I think he's trying to justify a policy of bringing in the 'next in line' rather than genuinely young, fresh talent. Has worked for a while but can't see the point of blooding 30 year olds tbh

I disagree. I think you should always pick your best team. Hussey and Clark's first years in Tests were phenomenal. Some players don't come properly good till their 30s - look at Gooch.

 

[JTG]

I disagree. I think you should always pick your best team. Hussey and Clark's first years in Tests were phenomenal. Some players don't come properly good till their 30s - look at Gooch.

Depends though. Can't see much value in having Haddin for a couple of years before he retires.