Knives, guns and gang culture

[ViolentPanda]

In my experience the kids aren't particularly worried about the existence of proper powers - it's the attitude of the officers doing the stopping which makes all the difference.

And it is definitely something which different parts of the community view in very different ways - sadly it has almost totemic significance to the black community now.

Having been stopped under SUS more times than I care to think about in my youth, it had a fairly "totemic significance" in the mixed working class neighbourhoods I grew up in too. The obvious (to teenage working class males of the time, that is) thing was that there was a "heirarchy of oppression" operated by many coppers in SW London, which ran something like;

Black, male, w/c or m/c, in or out of own locale - definite stop, w/ loads of attitude and snidery from the coppers.
White or Asian, male, w/c, in or out of own locale - almost definite stop, never as much attitude as black peers got.
White, male, m/c, in own locale - unlikely to be stopped. If stopped police servile.
White, male, m/c, out of own locale - unlikely to be stopped. If stopped police servile.

Perhaps the "attitude" problem on the part of the police was down to the (often mooted, never confirmed) perception by some political activists in SW London that certain police stations (Battersea Bridge Road and Streatham spring to mind) were "rubbish dumps" where the scum of the division were deposited. Perhaps it was just good old-fashioned contempt for the working classes. What I do know is that SUS wouldn't gave garnered such a bad rep if the officers on the ground had been a little more humane and a little less abusive.

 

[detective-boy]

What I do know is that SUS wouldn't gave garnered such a bad rep if the officers on the ground had been a little more humane and a little less abusive.

I don't think your summary of different approachs would have proved quite so defined if researched further - I've had more than enough experience of white youths treated badly during stop-search encounters and it is, so far as I could usually see, far more of a youth and authority thing than a race thing (with the differences in racial groups amongst age ranges and geographically accounting for some / most of the disproportionality seen).

The flogging to death of the tactic is probably accurate though - like most things if overused / abused it fell into disrepute (as will the terrorism powers whcih are undoubtedly being used far, far more widely than can be operationally justified ... but by senior officers who define where and when they apply rather than street officers who (understandably) use the "grounds-less" terrorism power wherever they can instead of other powers they need to justify on a personal level.

 

[likesfish]

get wannabe knife carriers who think they need to carry a knife to defend themselves to play the pen game
two opponents try and mark each other with pens without trying to get marked
proves you can't defend yourself with a knife.
loads of photos from the slabs
piece de resistance bring in half a dozen murderers who are doing heavy time for
knife gun crime after a year or two inside with another 15 won't be so gangsta