knackered twin CD player ....

[beesonthewhatnow]

Whatever you do, don't plug the CD player into the turntable inputs!

A turntable has a very low output signal, so needs a different sort of input to get the signal up the required level - if you plug a CD player into it it won't do it much good at all.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I really disagree with you - there is a huge difference to be heard between various cables and various systems - all of which representing (to some degree) the particular sonic bias of the engineers involved in the products development. I repeat my first point, take some Chord Cobra interconnects and play some music - then replace the interconnects with Audioquest Ruby (or something similar) - and you will hear a difference in the sound. The question as to whether the sound is better is open to debate

Hearing it when you know they have been changed is one thing - try a proper test where the listener dosen't know which cables are being used, repeat several times changing the cables at random (say 10 times or more) each time asking them to say which is being used, and I bet my last pound that the results will show that you cannot tell the difference.

The world of hifi is almost as full of snake oil as the world of hippy medicine.

 

[Callie]

Whatever you do, don't plug the CD player into the turntable inputs!

A turntable has a very low output signal, so needs a different sort of input to get the signal up the required level - if you plug a CD player into it it won't do it much good at all.

bugger - so I can only use the turntable in/out puts for a turntable. dammit!

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

bugger - so I can only use the turntable in/out puts for a turntable. dammit!

What inputs/outputs has the amp got?

 

[Callie]

cd, tuner, tape (one in, one out) and turntable.

I want or will be wanting to plug into it: cd, tuner, tape, minidisc. Possibly turntable as there was a vague offer of one from my step dad but it might never materialise.

I plan to record lots of stuff from tape to minidisc but that shouldnt be a problem.

 

[WWWeed]

How much have you got to spend wolfie? I dont think richer sounds sell cd decks or decks of any kind anymore. Let me know my good freind has a pair DENONs and a vestax mixer for sale .

 

[Wolfie]

well I wasn't necessarily thinking of replacing the broken ones - but now you mention it there may be a bit of cash spare after I've moved house ...

PM on its way

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

cd, tuner, tape (one in, one out) and turntable.

I want or will be wanting to plug into it: cd, tuner, tape, minidisc. Possibly turntable as there was a vague offer of one from my step dad but it might never materialise.

I plan to record lots of stuff from tape to minidisc but that shouldnt be a problem.

If you plug the tape into the "in", then the MD record inputs into the amp "out" you can do all your copying, then just stick the MD into the tape in when you're done

 

[Callie]

so theres no way around the fiddling with switching things over? ive said it once and ill say it again - dammit!

 

[Boogie Boy]

Hearing it when you know they have been changed is one thing - try a proper test where the listener dosen't know which cables are being used, repeat several times changing the cables at random (say 10 times or more) each time asking them to say which is being used, and I bet my last pound that the results will show that you cannot tell the difference.

The world of hifi is almost as full of snake oil as the world of hippy medicine.

We will just have to agree to disagree then!

BB

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

We will just have to agree to disagree then!

Quote from an ex BBC engineer:

What I do a lot of these days is the restoration of vintage audio - although a newcomer to this particular corner of the music industry my work won three awards as recordings of the year in 2005.

This kind of work requires very a precise listening environment in order to tease the finest nuances out of recordings made using often relatively primitive equipment. Being able not only to hear every defect in the original but also precisely what happens when I try to treat it is very important. As far as my audio equipment is concerned there are two crucial points - the replay from disc (vinyl or 78s) and the monitoring equipment.

In both of these areas it is clear that investment pays off. Getting good sound out of analogue grooves is tricky (which is why the audiophiles like vinyl - plenty of opportunity for tweaking and spending money there). But once it’s done and digitised for restoration, it’s the listening equipment that really matters.

What this means is good loudspeakers. The difference between a pair of £550 hi-fi speakers and my ex-BBC studio monitors is huge - the resolution of the latter and the abilily to hear the very smallest differences and finest nuances in sound is truly incredible. (These speakers cost the BBC the current-day equivilent of about £10,000 per pair when they introduced them in the late 80’s.)

So, listening on these ‘wonder-speakers’ (each with its own dedicated Quad power amp), with ‘trained’ ears (I can just about still detect sine waves up to 20kHz), and working at very fine resolution, I ought to be able to hear if something makes a difference to the sound quality I’m hearing, whether I’m listening to vintage material or the most modern, high-resolution sound.

So, at the risk of blowing my credibility as a sound engineer, what differences do I hear as I switch leads, cables and so on? Absolutely nothing. Zilch. The whole thing is a massive con. I think most people working in my profession would privately agree - some would happily go on the record. Most of us find the kind of nonsense spouted at the more extreme end of the audiophile community hilarious - but even at the ’sensible’ end there’s a whole load of barmy claptrap spoken and written.

 

[Boogie Boy]

Quote from an ex BBC engineer:

Clearly deaf!!!

BB

 

[sherriff rosco]

To add my two pennies worth....

The only difference in cable I`ve ever noticed is when using high powered stuff.
We run 4mm cores on all our bass bins ( 800 watt rms drivers in each ) for runs over 10 meters . If you run thinner cable you loose a lot of power due to heat and impedance in the cable. That`s the only time I`ve been worried about cables , I`m more worried about durability and wether the damn stuff coils quickly !
For home hi-fi tho I use bog standard 1.5mm van damme speaker cable.......cheap , flexible , and the mice would have a hard job getting through the outer sheath...

.p.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Clearly deaf!!!

Errr, yeah, right....

As SR says above, the only thing that will effect performance of a cable is it's length verses it's cross sectional area. Basic physics with regards to resistance / capacitance.

I'll dig out a couple of links later from lab tests that have been done showing no difference in signals whatsoever when comparing expensive ubertwat cables with cheapo ones.

I bet you "biwire" your speakers as well don't you?

 

[ViolentPanda]

To add my two pennies worth....

The only difference in cable I`ve ever noticed is when using high powered stuff.
We run 4mm cores on all our bass bins ( 800 watt rms drivers in each ) for runs over 10 meters . If you run thinner cable you loose a lot of power due to heat and impedance in the cable. That`s the only time I`ve been worried about cables , I`m more worried about durability and wether the damn stuff coils quickly !
For home hi-fi tho I use bog standard 1.5mm van damme speaker cable.......cheap , flexible , and the mice would have a hard job getting through the outer sheath...

.p.

I'm affraid I went even cheaper than the Maplins special you mention and used cat5 cable as speaker wire for my little bedroom set-up (although not the main hi-fi in the living room which still has the early 1970s-vintage cloth-covered speaker cable it came with when I bought it 2nd-hand) using two twisted pairs per terminal, just because it's what I had in my "cables and wires" bag.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I'm affraid I went even cheaper than the Maplins special you mention and used cat5 cable as speaker wire for my little bedroom set-up (although not the main hi-fi in the living room which still has the early 1970s-vintage cloth-covered speaker cable it came with when I bought it 2nd-hand) using two twisted pairs per terminal, just because it's what I had in my "cables and wires" bag.

Nice

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nice

I told a spoddy mate (physics grad) about it and he spouted a load of gibberish (to me anyway, I just about managed to stop my head exploding in physics lessons at school) about why you'd actually get a good sound from using twisted pairs, and that (as you've said repeatedly ) expensive interconnects are pure ju-ju.

 

[Velouria]

I told a spoddy mate (physics grad) about it and he spouted a load of gibberish (to me anyway, I just about managed to stop my head exploding in physics lessons at school) about why you'd actually get a good sound from using twisted pairs, and that (as you've said repeatedly ) expensive interconnects are pure ju-ju.

I went EVEN more retro once, and had my speakers wired up with 50 ohm coaxial ethernet cable. It sounded perfectly normal to me despite dire warnings from people about the cable impedance. So I eventually replaced it with some quality cable...

B&Q 30amp mains circuit cable. 80p a metre I think it was ...

It sounds fine to me. Think those people who obsess about solid silver cables and oxygen free copper, are just spending far too much money for far too little gain. Or, showing off. Take your pick

Current setup:

Speakers: Pair of Wharfedale Linton 3XPs with the caps replaced in the crossover networks with modern equivalents (they were shot), and a pair of ten quid Maplin tweeters bunged in (One of the original tweeters was blown - hell, they were free!). Some complain it sounds a bit trebly. I say 'bollocks sounds fine to me' to them...

Speaker stands: Proper spiked stands bought at a party in Glasgow (!) for 25 quid. Before that, they sat on the floor, tilted carefully at the optimim angle to traverse the full diagonal of the room (it's to do with propagation of bass waves, see...?). Speakers are held onto the stands with ... two packets of Blu-Tak.

Speaker Cable: 30amp household wire, as described.

Amplifier: Toshiba SB-M2 amp, 1980s hi-fi system that was my dad's ... Sounds fine to me. I think it's 40 watts a channel. Nowadays, all it's ever used for is the PC ...

Other discretes: The rest of the Toshiba system - a belt-driven turntable with a knackered belt (where the hell will I get a replacement?) and a hand-made cartridge carrier with Tandy replacement stylus, all of course making it heavier than the original, so the counterweight has 4 2p pieces taped onto it to increase its weight and balance the lot (My brother broke the original cartridge after attempting to Superglue a broken stylus back together... idiot!). A radio with a broken FM Stereo/mono selector, so it has a 1p piece jammed in there to 'lock' it into stereo mode. And a tape deck which works flawlessly, so far

 

[Callie]

Other discretes: The rest of the Toshiba system - a belt-driven turntable with a knackered belt (where the hell will I get a replacement?) and a hand-made cartridge carrier with Tandy replacement stylus, all of course making it heavier than the original, so the counterweight has 4 2p pieces taped onto it to increase its weight and balance the lot (My brother broke the original cartridge after attempting to Superglue a broken stylus back together... idiot!)

this reminds me of my first ever hi fi - cheapest one from argos about 13 years ago, Alba I think. The turntable started making a weird rattley distortion sound - which was coming from the actual turntable rather than the speakers - I discovered it was the arm (stylus) vibrating and ended up sticking some 2ps to it

 

[Boogie Boy]

Errr, yeah, right....

As SR says above, the only thing that will effect performance of a cable is it's length verses it's cross sectional area. Basic physics with regards to resistance / capacitance.

I'll dig out a couple of links later from lab tests that have been done showing no difference in signals whatsoever when comparing expensive ubertwat cables with cheapo ones.

I bet you "biwire" your speakers as well don't you?

BB

 

[ViolentPanda]

I went EVEN more retro once, and had my speakers wired up with 50 ohm coaxial ethernet cable. It sounded perfectly normal to me despite dire warnings from people about the cable impedance. So I eventually replaced it with some quality cable...

B&Q 30amp mains circuit cable. 80p a metre I think it was ...

It sounds fine to me. Think those people who obsess about solid silver cables and oxygen free copper, are just spending far too much money for far too little gain. Or, showing off. Take your pick

Current setup:

Speakers: Pair of Wharfedale Linton 3XPs with the caps replaced in the crossover networks with modern equivalents (they were shot), and a pair of ten quid Maplin tweeters bunged in (One of the original tweeters was blown - hell, they were free!). Some complain it sounds a bit trebly. I say 'bollocks sounds fine to me' to them...

Speaker stands: Proper spiked stands bought at a party in Glasgow (!) for 25 quid. Before that, they sat on the floor, tilted carefully at the optimim angle to traverse the full diagonal of the room (it's to do with propagation of bass waves, see...?). Speakers are held onto the stands with ... two packets of Blu-Tak.

Speaker Cable: 30amp household wire, as described.

Amplifier: Toshiba SB-M2 amp, 1980s hi-fi system that was my dad's ... Sounds fine to me. I think it's 40 watts a channel. Nowadays, all it's ever used for is the PC ...

Other discretes: The rest of the Toshiba system - a belt-driven turntable with a knackered belt (where the hell will I get a replacement?) and a hand-made cartridge carrier with Tandy replacement stylus, all of course making it heavier than the original, so the counterweight has 4 2p pieces taped onto it to increase its weight and balance the lot (My brother broke the original cartridge after attempting to Superglue a broken stylus back together... idiot!). A radio with a broken FM Stereo/mono selector, so it has a 1p piece jammed in there to 'lock' it into stereo mode. And a tape deck which works flawlessly, so far

Maplin do turntable drive belts IIRC. I bought one last year to replace the saggier-than-a-whore's-drawers one on my 70's-vintage turntable.

 

[ViolentPanda]

BB

Should we take that as a "yes"?

 

[Boogie Boy]

Should we take that as a "yes"?

Take it in a 'throughly enjoying this thread' kind of way. I'm still smiling!

BB

 

[Velouria]

Quote from an ex BBC engineer:

etc ... Silly quote limit cut it off ..

Anyway, here's quite an interesting article on the subject

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Take it in a 'throughly enjoying this thread' kind of way. I'm still smiling!

So you do bi-wire them then

Do you realise that electrically it is exactly the same? Can be proved with basic maths

 

[Boogie Boy]

So you do bi-wire them then

Do you realise that electrically it is exactly the same? Can be proved with basic maths

Not at all, I have just come to the conclusion that I must have 'golden ears'!

BB

 

[Apathy]

My CD twin recorder wont work either, the side that records is ok luckily, but the left one just spits any CD back out

thats if anyone still intrested in any crap twin CD player chat