Kids harder to teach than 30 years ago? Is this why?
- Thread starter Cloo
- Start date
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Jazzz said:
It's more Jazzz bollocks, you mean!
You really shouldn't keep harping on about vaccines, especially as you have been caught out every time you attempt to convince people that vaccines are worse than the diseases they are designed to prevent.
Give it up. Save it for David Icke fans who are gullible enough to believe this shite.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Jorum said:
Please! Don't feed this guy ideas, Jorum - if there were a vaccine for paranoid hypochondriacs Jazzz would be a prime candidate for testing it...
This has been done to death before and nothing was proved other than spreading fear in young parents about the MMR vaccine makes people very angry at Jazzz and his "original" ideas.
If you have some info, by all means let us know - but treat everything Jazzz says about vaccines with the highest scepticism possible!!!
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannise their teachers.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Socrates said that....
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Jorum said:It is probably not possible to be more sceptical about Jazzz's ideas than I am, don't worry
By the way the MMR vaccine has never contained ethylmercury at all.
Interesting info re the MMR vaccine.
Jorum
Well-Known Member
Without going into boring detail that none of us understand (me included) most of the vaccines contain various sugars as additives.
The use of ethylmercury (which makes up 49% of an additive called Thimerosal)
is and has been largely phased out. (none of the US child vaccines use it)
The influenza vaccines still contain Thimerosal due to technical reasons.
The amount of material in the vaccines is tiny. If you were being vaccinated every day I might start worrying. The couple of dozen injections received in your whole live isn't going to represent any meaningful risk.
The problem is risk-assesment of people is fucked.
Driving to work is the most dangerous thing any of us is ever likely to but do we worry?
The use of ethylmercury (which makes up 49% of an additive called Thimerosal)
is and has been largely phased out. (none of the US child vaccines use it)
The influenza vaccines still contain Thimerosal due to technical reasons.
The amount of material in the vaccines is tiny. If you were being vaccinated every day I might start worrying. The couple of dozen injections received in your whole live isn't going to represent any meaningful risk.
The problem is risk-assesment of people is fucked.
Driving to work is the most dangerous thing any of us is ever likely to but do we worry?
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Jorum said:
Mercury killed more Victorian photographers than the Thomersoal in vaccines ever will.
isvicthere?
a.k.a. floppybollocks
Donna Ferentes said:
I have been a teacher for the last 23 years, and I have also read the book you refer to, which is actually by Geoffrey Pearson (I even wrote him a letter about it).
It has definitely got harder to teach kids in the time I've been working. Partly this is due to the social reasons mentioned above; partly IMO it is due to the gutless policies of successive goverments.
Schools are now driven by the sort of bullshit management attitudes and jargon that are mocked by viewers of "The Apprentice". When I started teaching the Head Teacher was precisely that: a teacher in charge of a school. Now the Heads of schools are remote administrative figures more concerned with woolly bullshit. Now making sure a "policy" is "in place" (i.e. logged on some computer somewhere) is more important than having a "policy" which is genuinely in operation.
Got to go now - but MUCH more later...
Spot on, management bullshit has been a major contributor to severely fucked up education, health and local govt in recent years, particularly things like TQM and SMART targets.
The diet thing is a moot point, I was raised on fishfingers, chips and hotdogs whereas in general diet is much more mediterranean now and everyone knows about 5 a day.
Likewise childcare, I was a latchkey kid, took myself to school on the bus/train from an early age, etc. Plenty of it about then, plenty now, not necessarily a problem.
I do think the TV/PS2 in the bedroom and lack of sleep are probably fair points though, merely going by personal experience. Ties in with something not mentioned which is the amount of time spent reading for pleasure.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Nigella and Nigel Slater haven't had much influence on sprawling council estates. It's hard to cook healthily on benefits, especially if, thanks to Domestic Science being replaced by Food Technology, neither you, yer mum or yer nan know how to cook properly with fresh ingredients.ICB said:
Mrs Magpie said:
all true and fair enough, I was talking from personal experience, as someone from a low-income single-parent middle-class background
doubt much olive oil was sold in the UK in 1970 and every day there's a new story about the health benefits of some food stuff or another, this morning it was chilli and prostate cancer, hoorah!
Cloo
Banana for scale
The TVs etc in bedroom thing is definitely trouble - as you say ICB, it doesn't help sleep patterns one bit. And when you think of all the implications of, say, a family of three kids, each with their whole world essentially in their bedroom, the effects of it on health, social skills and learning are not going to be positive ones.
Where on earth have you got your information from?Jorum said:
American children have been exposed to plenty of thimerosal. You can read about it on the FDA's own website!
here's the figure for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thimerosal_controversy
This may not seem much, but mercury is the second most toxic naturally occuring element, after plutonium, and babies are extremely delicate things with ill-developed endocrine systems.
A CDC report - details of which were kept secret - found that 62.5 micrograms were enough to cause elevated risk of autism
http://www.vaccineinfo.net/issues/mercury/autismHg.shtml
This is just mercury of course. It's disingenous to describe the other ingredients as 'sugars'... lovely things like formaldehyde (like mercury, there is no safe level of formaldehyde.. you just don't want it. Antifreeze. Aluminium. Borax. etc.
Here's another good page on vaccine ingredients. Did you know that latex in is in the Hepatitis B vaccine? No wonder nurses have been getting latex allergies.
We just have no idea what the cumulative combined effects of all these toxins are.
From the same FDA website you are selectively quoting from
http://www.fda.gov/Cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#tox
In 2004, the IOM's Immunization Safety Review Committee issued its final report, examining the hypothesis that vaccines, specifically the MMR vaccines and thimerosal containing vaccines, are causally associated with autism. In this report, the committee incorporated new epidemiological evidence from the U.S., Denmark, Sweden, and the United Kingdom, and studies of biologic mechanisms related to vaccines and autism since its report in 2001. The committee concluded that this body of evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, and that hypotheses generated to date concerning a biological mechanism for such causality are theoretical only. Further, the committee stated that the benefits of vaccination are proven and the hypothesis of susceptible populations is presently speculative, and that widespread rejection of vaccines would lead to increases in incidences of serious infectious diseases like measles, whooping cough and Hib bacterial meningitis.
According to the table at the bottom of this page MMR Vaccine in US never contained Thimerosal.
At the bottom of the same page are links to the U.S. Enviromental Protection Agency website warning of the dangers of mercury posioning from fish (both natural and pollution related).
http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/fishadvice/advice.html
Specifically
Do not eat Shark, Swordfish, King Mackerel, or Tilefish because they contain high levels of mercury.
But I haven't noticed you mentioning these as a source of mercury poisoning. Could it be because you don't have faintest idea what you are talking about and will desperately accept the faintest snippet of information that confirms your paranoid delusions? Surely not.
http://www.fda.gov/Cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#tox
In 2004, the IOM's Immunization Safety Review Committee issued its final report, examining the hypothesis that vaccines, specifically the MMR vaccines and thimerosal containing vaccines, are causally associated with autism. In this report, the committee incorporated new epidemiological evidence from the U.S., Denmark, Sweden, and the United Kingdom, and studies of biologic mechanisms related to vaccines and autism since its report in 2001. The committee concluded that this body of evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, and that hypotheses generated to date concerning a biological mechanism for such causality are theoretical only. Further, the committee stated that the benefits of vaccination are proven and the hypothesis of susceptible populations is presently speculative, and that widespread rejection of vaccines would lead to increases in incidences of serious infectious diseases like measles, whooping cough and Hib bacterial meningitis.
According to the table at the bottom of this page MMR Vaccine in US never contained Thimerosal.
At the bottom of the same page are links to the U.S. Enviromental Protection Agency website warning of the dangers of mercury posioning from fish (both natural and pollution related).
http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/fishadvice/advice.html
Specifically
Do not eat Shark, Swordfish, King Mackerel, or Tilefish because they contain high levels of mercury.
But I haven't noticed you mentioning these as a source of mercury poisoning. Could it be because you don't have faintest idea what you are talking about and will desperately accept the faintest snippet of information that confirms your paranoid delusions? Surely not.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Quite right: thanks for the correction.isvicthere? said:
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
This sounds familiar. A major reason I left my last job was this bullshit way of always saying everybody was "committed" to something or other but never actually doing it. The effect of the second part wa to demoralise anybody who actually wanted to get things done: the effect of the first was that when they complained, they could be painted as the ones who weren't committed because they weren't fully behind the policy.isvicthere? said:
Jorum
Well-Known Member
Jorum said:
You seem to selectively choose from your holy internet only isolated paragraphs that supports your arguments.Jazzz said:
The USA CDC website also has info about Thimerosal
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/default.htm
Of particular relevance is
Today, with the exception of some Influenza (flu) vaccines, none of the vaccines used in the U.S. to protect preschool children against 12 infectious diseases contain thimerosal as a preservative.
Even more important than looking up various things on the internet is actually having a decent knowledge of science and risk assessment. Also understanding that the tiny possible health implications of vaccination are far overwhelmed by the benefits of preventing high infant mortality, pandemics and the mental and physical damage that something like rubella can cause.
Because people are no longer exposed to things like rubella, whooping cough etc. they forget what horrible things they are and the deaths they cause.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Jorum said:
One of my family decided after a bout of media scaremongering to not give their son the whooping cough vaccine and he caught the disease and nearly died.
Jorum said:
I linked to the FDA website, because it corrected you, and you couldn't doubt it.
Regardless of the successful campaign and hushed-up studies which led to the removal of thimerosal from many vaccines, in the context of this thread it's highly relevant as most of the children that are the subject of this thread will have had several significant shots of it.
I do. Studies of vaccinated groups with unvaccinated controls are rarely performed. This is unscientific. As such, the effects of the injections must be considered an unknown risk.
A wider debate; but this thread is about developmental issues in school children.
I caught whooping cough a few years ago. Horrible; and I had been vaccinated as a child. FYI, Rubella isn't a killer. Also FYI, I have researched books as well as the internet on vaccines.
You are a dangerous idiot.
http://www.sense.org.uk/campaignnews/pressroom/pressreleases/2003/q1/pr162.htm
http://www.sense.org.uk/campaignnews/pressroom/pressreleases/2003/q1/pr162.htm
Jazzz said:
You may have found it slightly more horrible if you were an infant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whooping_cough
Pertussis, also known as "whooping cough", is a highly contagious disease that is one of the leading causes of vaccine-preventable deaths. There are 30–50 million cases per year, and about 300,000 deaths per year. Most deaths occur in children under one year of age. Ninety percent of all cases occur in developing countries. It is caused by certain species of the bacterium Bordetella—usually B. pertussis, but some cases are caused by B. parapertussis.
Indeed. But that it simplistic. It would be little use 'protecting' from a disease, if the consequences were an increased risk of dying from other causes. Most of the time vaccines do not even produce reduced death rates from the disease in question, although they may reduce incidence.
Sweded banned whooping cough vaccination in 1979. It is held by anti-vaccinists as the most dangerous vaccine. While Swedes live with whooping cough, it may also surprise you that they have the lowest infant mortality rate.
Sweded banned whooping cough vaccination in 1979. It is held by anti-vaccinists as the most dangerous vaccine. While Swedes live with whooping cough, it may also surprise you that they have the lowest infant mortality rate.
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