Kid dies falling from block of flats

[Treacle Toes]

read what i said again, if you associate yourself with crack dealers and deal weed yourself then obviously you're going find yourself more likely to be drawn into situations like this.

a really simple concept to understand yet you seem to try and misinterpret the point on purpose.

Okay, so he may have been selling a bit of weed with his brother....others around who may/may not been friends of his sold crack.

You make a point of his 'associates'. Do you remember what it was like at 16. Growing up I knew all kinds of people who did all kinds of bad things and it wasn't always easy to disassociate myself from them. I would be around and so were they, I wasn't hanging around with them and wasn't into the things they were but was very often thought of by 'others' as a friend of theirs. Sometimes you simply just keep on their 'good' side out of fear.

For me it's not always as simple a case of live by the sword, die by the sword.

 

[dtb]

Okay, so he may have been selling a bit of weed with his brother....others around who may/may not been friends of his sold crack.

You make a point of his 'associates'. Do you remember what it was like at 16. Growing up I knew all kinds of people who did all kinds of bad things and it wasn't always easy to disassociate myself from them. I would be around and so were they, I wasn't hanging around with them and wasn't into the things they were but was very often thought of by 'others' as a friend of theirs. Sometimes you simply just keep on their 'good' side out of fear.

For me it's not always as simple a case of live by the sword, die by the sword.

i don't believe it's as simple as that either and i remember what it was like when i was younger - i made the choice not to hang around with certain people because i knew they were trouble.

so, selling a bit of weed on the streets is ok now is it? believe it or not many disputes that end up with murder are over weed deals

 

[Treacle Toes]

i don't believe it's as simple as that either and i remember what it was like when i was younger - i made the choice not to hang around with certain people because i knew they were trouble.

Me too, it wasn't easy though and sometimes it was damb right impossible to avoid them unless I stayed at home. You see very often they were brothers, cousins or friends of friends. They were the boy next door or someone you went to school with, hell sometimes those people are even related to you.

Depends where you grow up I suppose. Of course as an adult with my own resources, money, flat, confidence...it is much easier.

so, selling a bit of weed on the streets is ok now is it? believe it or not many disputes that end up with murder are over weed deals

I never said that, but it isn't exactly unusual is it? I puffed, and know people who have done for years, many of which sold a bit to pay for their own or a small profit, who never got into any trouble and never caused any...

IME, the usual trouble with weed deals going tits up is when someone rips someone else off.

 

[detective-boy]

you really think his close friends are going to tell the press that he was involved in selling drugs or was part of a gang?

This is Urban 75 ... of course the fuckwits think that ...

 

[Treacle Toes]

This is Urban 75 ... of course the fuckwits think that ...

 

[scifisam]

"Ahmed and his brother sold weed, the others sell harder drugs. That was a note to them to come off the streets or we will get you one by one," said the friend. "Hackney is crack city, there are syringes everywhere. These guys saw they were making money.

"It is a drug war. A big guy who they get their stuff off had been warned a few weeks ago to stop doing it, but they didn't. These guys didn't want Ahmed but the others."

Members of Ahmed's family said the teenager - who passed nine of his GCSEs at Hackney Free and Parochial School - had recently started hanging around with new friends and leaving the house more.

A spokesman for Scotland Yard said: "We can't speculate on any of these theories at this point."

seems like some people are very selective about which comments they choose to believe, each side of this story is equally valid im my opinion and therefore should be reported and not ignored

Where are you getting that from? It's not in any of the links you posted - two of which were about completely different boys. In the story that was about this boy, the closest is:

He said about the gang: 'I think that they came here for a specific purpose.

'They have come to this location, it would seem, to have some sort of altercation with the group Ahmed was with.'

Mr Stevenson [the cop speaking to the journos] said Ahmed was not a known gang member or involved in crime, and had not been dealing in drugs. He added was on 'the periphery' of the group he was with.

 

[pk]

'Kin 'ell, calm down yous lot!

When all is said and done, this lad was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and was murdered by crack dealing scum.

Hope they all kill each other, or overdose, whichever is quicker.

 

[dtb]

Where are you getting that from? It's not in any of the links you posted - two of which were about completely different boys. In the story that was about this boy, the closest is:

if you follow the thread and read my comments you'll seee that i refer to previous cases where murdered teenagers have been found to be involved with gangs and are convicted criminals

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

if you follow the thread and read my comments you'll seee that i refer to previous cases where murdered teenagers have been found to be involved with gangs and are convicted criminals

and?

there's been many many more young people who've been killed for altogether more banal reasons and hysterically labelling kids as drug dealers or gangstas is insulting and unhelpful. your comments are a repetition of the hyperbole of associated newspapers which is hardly a reliable source.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

This is Urban 75 ... of course the fuckwits think that ...

so what the cops doing about this young man then? iyvho of course.

 

[scifisam]

if you follow the thread and read my comments you'll seee that i refer to previous cases where murdered teenagers have been found to be involved with gangs and are convicted criminals

What's that got to do with anything? You've posted up stuff saying that this particular boy was a crack dealer. That's not in the links you gave. Where are you getting it from?

 

[Citizen66]

the press have painted a picture of a completely innocent teenager chased to his death merely for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. i find this difficult to believe, reports are now coming out that he was hanging around with a group of crack dealers and was a target because of a turf war over drugs. a tragic way to die but if you choose to associate with people like this (who's to say he wasn't dealing himself) then this is the risk you have to take

so where are these reports then? and of course you can back up your completely insensitive insinuation that he was probably dealing crack can you? you fucking shitehawk, stick your fucking rumours up your stupid fucking arse sideways.

But that isn't even the point. No kid deserves to be chased to their death no matter what they've managed to get themselves involved in. Whether the 'rumours' are true or not...

I hate all this "Oh, they were involved in gangs / they weren't invloved in gangs" thing that the mainstream press tout as if it then becomes an understandable or explainable death. And to therefore avoid any responsibility themselves.

The govt need to get a fucking grip on this fucking problem happening in the capital and the rest of the country.

But as they're always sorting out their own politics with bloodshed around the world, why should we expect kids who know no better to act any differently?

"Oh, it's because of violent computer games" circa the daily mail

Yes, of course it is.

 

[scifisam]

But that isn't even the point. No kid deserves to be chased to their death no matter what they've managed to get themselves involved in. Whether the 'rumours' are true or not...

I hate all this "Oh, they were involved in gangs / they weren't invloved in gangs" thing that the mainstream press tout as if it then becomes an understandable or explainable death. And to therefore avoid any responsibility themselves.

The govt need to get a fucking grip on this fucking problem happening in the capital and the rest of the country.

But as they're always sorting out their own politics with bloodshed around the world, why should we expect kids who know no better to act any differently?

"Oh, it's because of violent computer games" circa the daily mail

Yes, of course it is.

I agree - I feel sorry for the crack-dealing kid who got murdered, too (one of the ones mentioned). He didn't deserve what happened to him.

But, to be honest, that one doesn't worry me as much as the kid who was killed by accident in a supermarket, or this kid, who, from the sounds of it, had some dodgy friends but wasn't dodgy himself. I guess because I like to think I can try to combat my own kid getting into something as severe as crack-dealing (though there are no guarantees), but I can't stop her going to supermarkets when she's older, and she probably will have a few dodgy friends.

But the disagreement on this thread was more about someone deciding to slander someone's name after their death. It might not make much difference to the immediate family, who would be distraught anyway, but to the others who've lost a family member or friend, it would be adding insult to injury.

 

[Citizen66]

I agree - I feel sorry for the crack-dealing kid who got murdered, too (one of the ones mentioned). He didn't deserve what happened to him.

But, to be honest, that one doesn't worry me as much as the kid who was killed by accident in a supermarket, or this kid, who, from the sounds of it, had some dodgy friends but wasn't dodgy himself. I guess because I like to think I can try to combat my own kid getting into something as severe as crack-dealing (though there are no guarantees), but I can't stop her going to supermarkets when she's older, and she probably will have a few dodgy friends.

But the disagreement on this thread was more about someone deciding to slander someone's name after their death. It might not make much difference to the immediate family, who would be distraught anyway, but to the others who've lost a family member or friend, it would be adding insult to injury.

I agree with your sentiment. But the point I'm trying to make is that how on earth have we wandered into a society where kids who aren't even old enough to drink or have sex (legally) can die before they're out of their teens because this dark under-belly of society is in their face from such a young age?

Of course no child should die by simply going to the supermarket. But, equally, no child should die because they're left at the bottom of the pile in life and exploited by the criminal underworld before they've even had a chance to live otherwise.

 

[dtb]

What's that got to do with anything? You've posted up stuff saying that this particular boy was a crack dealer. That's not in the links you gave. Where are you getting it from?

no i haven't. the boy who died from the flats was with crack dealing 'associates' at the time.

the boy who was shot in clapham was reported to be a crack dealer.

read more carefully next time

 

[scifisam]

no i haven't. the boy who died from the flats was with crack dealing 'associates' at the time.

the boy who was shot in clapham was reported to be a crack dealer.

read more carefully next time

You posted this:

View Post
"Ahmed and his brother sold weed, the others sell harder drugs. That was a note to them to come off the streets or we will get you one by one," said the friend. "Hackney is crack city, there are syringes everywhere. These guys saw they were making money.

"It is a drug war. A big guy who they get their stuff off had been warned a few weeks ago to stop doing it, but they didn't. These guys didn't want Ahmed but the others."

Members of Ahmed's family said the teenager - who passed nine of his GCSEs at Hackney Free and Parochial School - had recently started hanging around with new friends and leaving the house more.

A spokesman for Scotland Yard said: "We can't speculate on any of these theories at this point."

seems like some people are very selective about which comments they choose to believe, each side of this story is equally valid im my opinion and therefore should be reported and not ignored

For the THIRD time, where did you get that from?

And you also said:

the press have painted a picture of a completely innocent teenager chased to his death merely for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. i find this difficult to believe, reports are now coming out that he was hanging around with a group of crack dealers and was a target because of a turf war over drugs. a tragic way to die but if you choose to associate with people like this (who's to say he wasn't dealing himself) then this is the risk you have to take

Both about this boy, not the others.

 

[dtb]

here's the link:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...boy+as+he+clung+to+pole+on+balcony/article.do

read the comment left by someone else at the end also if you're having difficulty undertsanding my point here. (although it's pretty clear what i'm saying)

 

[scifisam]

here's the link:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...boy+as+he+clung+to+pole+on+balcony/article.do

read the comment left by someone else at the end also if you're having difficulty undertsanding my point here. (although it's pretty clear what i'm saying)

Thanks for the link, finally. Yup, it is as it appeared - quotes from unnamed people. Very trustworthy. BTW, Hackney has syringes everywhere? They must have a strange definition of 'everywhere.'

That comment left by someone else is a disgusting excuse for a human being, really.

On the basis of an unattributed accusation made by one person, who might have been lying, in one newspaper, that this boy sold weed, that commentator is ready to say that this kid deserved to die. And this is what you're basing your opinion on?

 

[dtb]

explain to me why the unnnamed person who was quoted in this link should be any less reliable to another unamed person who said otherwise? there's no logic to the way you're interpreting the news reports, you're just being very naive here.

if it was such a disgusting comment i really don't think they would have allowed it to be posted.

 

[scifisam]

explain to me why the unnnamed person who was quoted in this link should be any less reliable to another unamed person who said otherwise? there's no logic to the way you're interpreting the news reports, you're just being very naive here.

There was no unnamed person who said otherwise. There was a named person, a police officer, who said otherwise. Rumous abound after a death like that, but they're often proven to be untrue - why would you automatically assume that the rumours in that article (the only article reporting them) are true?

if it was such a disgusting comment i really don't think they would have allowed it to be posted.

Now who's being naive?

 

[dtb]

There was no unnamed person who said otherwise. There was a named person, a police officer, who said otherwise. Rumous abound after a death like that, but they're often proven to be untrue - why would you automatically assume that the rumours in that article (the only article reporting them) are true?



Now who's being naive?

you

 

[scifisam]

you

Sooo, you believe rumours spread by one unnamed source in one article, and you believe that newspapers and websites don't post horrible comments. And you call someone else naive.

 

[dtb]

yawn