Khamenei singles out the British and the BBC

[JHE]

A Persian proverb (according to the Times):

If you trip over a pebble, you can be sure it was put there by an Englishman.​

(Supposing that it really is a Persian proverb, I reckon it must be at least as much in mockery of Anglophobia as an expression of Anglophobia.)

 

[Streathamite]

He also said that the wining margin of Eimadinnerjacket was 11 million votes !! and how could that be forged?

HOW many? that really is insane.

 

[JHE]

Usually, when I find political types insisting that this, that or the other is a diversion, I take no notice, because it usually just means, 'I don't want people to talk about that. I want people to talk about something else - something much more important.'

But the Iranian expulsion of two British diplomats does look like a diversion or attempt at a diversion. 'Look loyal Iranians. We've been under attack from the Little Satan, but, luckily for us all, the proper authorities of the Islamic Republic are standing up to the demonic infidels. Rally round, patriots! Rally round, Muslims!'

 

[CyberRose]

Maybe it's splitting hairs, but it's the west (which surely to all intents and purposes is just the usual suspects the US and UK) who have a conflict with iran. Just what business is it of theirs anyway?

What business is it of ours?! They're fucking insulting our nation! That MAKES it our business! Ayatolla gotta pay!

I can cope with them hanging gays, I can cope with them building nuclear weapons but when they start bad mouthing the British well I say bomb the fuckers from orbit!

 

[goldenecitrone]

Did he play the pan pipes as well?

I'm declaring a fatwa on this cunt. If anyone slashes his throat I'll buy them a beer.

 

[ohmyliver]

um, just to clear things up fatwa means 'legal ruling according to islamic jurisprudance', rather than 'death threat'. Obviously there is cross over but..

 

[goldenecitrone]

um, just to clear things up fatwa means 'legal ruling according to islamic jurisprudance', rather than 'death threat'. Obviously there is cross over but..

Don't worry, I've cleared it with a good mate who is a self-proclaimed Ayatollah.

 

[TheDave]

I had a small moment of national pride at seeing that Britain was the once again the cause of all the evil in world, feels nice to be appreciated I guess. America has been taking all the goddamn credit for too long.

 

[ohmyliver]

Don't worry, I've cleared it with a good mate who is a self-proclaimed Ayatollah.

so what was the fatwa your mate declaired?

 

[tangentlama]

What business is it of ours?! They're fucking insulting our nation! That MAKES it our business! Ayatolla gotta pay!

I can cope with them hanging gays, I can cope with them building nuclear weapons but when they start bad mouthing the British well I say bomb the fuckers from orbit!

He's entitled to his opinion of Britain. We have freedom of speech here.

We don't imprison gay people any more, but society still harbours prejudices and gay bashing and bullying still continues even though our British state does not condone it any longer. It did condone harsh punishment for gays as recently as the 1950s, so really, give this country a chance to change. Even when state punishment ceases, social punishment continues for years after.

In January 1952 Turing picked up the 19-year-old Arnold Murray outside a cinema in Manchester. After a lunch date, Turing invited Murray to spend the weekend with him at his house, an invitation which Murray accepted although he did not show up. The pair met again in Manchester the following Monday, when Arnold agreed to accompany Turing to the latter's house. A few weeks later Murray visited Turing's house again, and apparently spent the night there.[32]
After Murray helped an accomplice to break into his house, Turing reported the crime to the police. During the investigation Turing acknowledged a sexual relationship with Murray. Homosexual acts were illegal in the United Kingdom at that time,[5] and so both were charged with gross indecency under Section 11 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885, the same crime that Oscar Wilde had been convicted of more than fifty years earlier.[33]
Turing was given a choice between imprisonment or probation conditional on his agreement to undergo hormonal treatment designed to reduce libido. He accepted chemical castration via estrogen hormone injections,[34] which lasted for a year. Turing's conviction led to the removal of his security clearance, and barred him from continuing with his cryptographic consultancy for GCHQ. At the time, there was acute public anxiety about spies and homosexual entrapment by Soviet agents, possibly due to the recent exposure of the first two members of the Cambridge Five, Guy Burgess and Donald Maclean, as KGB double agents. Turing was never accused of espionage but, as with all who had worked at Bletchley Park, was prevented from discussing his war work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing#Death

Have no illusion on this matter - Britain has a history as horrid as Iran's over it's treatment of gay people.

Britain has nuclear weapons - it has a nuclear waste reprocessing plant which creates weapons grade material. Do you agree that Britain is not in a position to preach that Iran cease it's nuclear programme, when our government did a u-turn over next generation nuclear power plants, has changed the law to allow their building in earthquake zones (Lake District, Kent), and currently pays the people of Drigg hush-money to treat their cancers and blood-diseases.

 

[CyberRose]

Have no illusion on this matter - Britain has a history as horrid as Iran's over it's treatment of gay people.

Erm it's not "history" in Iran, is it?

 

[tangentlama]

Erm it's not "history" in Iran, is it?

Neither is it in UK. We still have homophobic hicks killing or bashing gays. Proving that for at least 50 years after State stops persecuting and punishing gays, small sections of society remain violently and murderously homophobic.

1999: Admiral Duncan bombing.
2004: Man who survived Admiral Duncan bombing brutally murdered
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-who-survived-soho-bombing-attack-531726.html
2006: Gay man sufffered hate attack then murdered in Portsmouth: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/portsmouth/39Hate-attack39-then-gay-man.1809102.jp

 

[CyberRose]

Neither is it in UK. We still have homophobic hicks killing or bashing gays.

1999: Admiral Duncan bombing.
2004: Man who survived Admiral Duncan bombing brutally murdered
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-who-survived-soho-bombing-attack-531726.html
2006: Gay man sufffered hate attack then murdered in Portsmouth: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/portsmouth/39Hate-attack39-then-gay-man.1809102.jp

No you were clearly referring to actions taken by the state. Now you just look stupid and desperate to try and make out that Britain is as bad as Iran!

FYI I can't think of any country in the world with greater laws of equality than the UK, so be a good boy and stop acting like a prat

 

[tangentlama]

I am female. I am neither desparate or stupid.

My post's focus was that even when state stops punishment (I think in Britain this was in 1967 when homosexuality became legal, so just a little over 40 years ago) some aspects of society continue on homophobic bullying, verbally, physically, with some resorting to murdering gay people.

Iran has one of the more enlightened views of transgendered men when compared with other predominently Islamic states. I think you must give this country a chance to change.
In Egypt, homosexual men are under continuous threat of persecution and imprisonment too. Where is your fatawa? Where is your attempt at Islamic jurisprudence? Your ideas are a joke - they don't work in the middle east.

 

[CyberRose]

I am female. I am neither desparate or stupid.

My post's focus was that even when state stops punishment (I think in Britain this was in 1967 when homosexuality became legal, so just a little over 40 years ago) some aspects of society continue on homophobic bullying, verbally, physically, with some resorting to murdering gay people.

Iran has

No you changed from criticising state actions to criticising the actions of individuals in a desperate and stupid attempt to portray Britain in the same light as Iran. Like I said, Britain is a, if not the, world leader in equality rights (a fact often ignored by idiots on the left when the try and tell us we live in a totalitarian police state). I don't care whether you're a boy or a girl, anyone who tries to say Britain is anywhere near as bad as Iran is pretty dumb...

 

[JHE]

...so really, give this country a chance to change.

OK, yes, let's do that. Um. Just explain to me what giving it a chance involves.

Does it involve not pointing out that the Islamist tyranny executes homos at a rate of about two a week? Or is it OK to mention it just as long as we don't sound too disapproving?

 

[tangentlama]

OK, yes, let's do that. Um. Just explain to me what giving it a chance involves.

Does it involve not pointing out that the Islamist tyranny executes homos at a rate of about two a week? Or is it OK to mention it just as long as we don't sound too disapproving?

No, it's a good idea to mention it. It's also a good idea to note that although homosexuality has been legal since 1967, we here have not rid ourselves of homophobia, or vigilante gay-murdering scum, so society will not just change overnight. At the moment, only the Iranian state is allowed to murder gays (although there is nothing in Qu'ran I can see about taking a homosexual's life enshrined in law, but there is in Taurat (Torah = 1st book of The Book). What I am trying to say that when Iranian state stops punitive action against gay people, fuckwit society will continue. So far in Britain we are not at a state where years have gone by and no gay people are murdered, beaten up, tortured verbally/daily by bullies.

 

[CyberRose]

In Egypt, homosexual men are under continuous threat of persecution and imprisonment too. Where is your fatawa? Where is your attempt at Islamic jurisprudence? Your ideas are a joke - they don't work in the middle east.

My ideas work everywhere in the world cos I'm human and so is everyone else who lives in this world! I have no time for any cultural relativism bollocks. If something is wrong it is wrong, whether it's done in the name of some backwards religion or not

 

[tangentlama]

No you changed from criticising state actions to criticising the actions of individuals in a desperate and stupid attempt to portray Britain in the same light as Iran. Like I said, Britain is a, if not the, world leader in equality rights (a fact often ignored by idiots on the left when the try and tell us we live in a totalitarian police state). I don't care whether you're a boy or a girl, anyone who tries to say Britain is anywhere near as bad as Iran is pretty dumb...

I wasn't comparing Britain today to Iran today. I was comparing Britain 100-50 years ago to Iran today. Get it right.

 

[tangentlama]

My ideas work everywhere in the world cos I'm human and so is everyone else who lives in this world! I have no time for any cultural relativism bollocks. If something is wrong it is wrong, whether it's done in the name of some backwards religion or not

Let's all eat your delicious beetroot for ever more.

 

[CyberRose]

No, it's a good idea to mention it. It's also a good idea to note that although homosexuality has been legal since 1967, we here have not rid ourselves of homophobia, or vigilante gay-murdering scum, so society will not just change overnight.

Yes yes, gay people are dropping like flies in this country, just this afternoon I saw a gang of anti-gay militia rounding them up and throwing them in the river!

At the moment, only the Iranian state is allowed to murder gays

Well that's fucking all right then innit?! In England everyone is allowed to murder gays! How fucking advanced a civilisation is Iran?! Puts us to bloody shame dunnit?!

So far in Britain we are not at a state where years have gone by and no gay people are murdered, beaten up, tortured verbally/daily by bullies.

Well maybe they should all flee to Iran to escape persecution?!

And just in case you haven't got the message yet ->

 

[CyberRose]

I wasn't comparing Britain today to Iran today. I was comparing Britain 100-50 years ago to Iran today. Get it right.

Oh well give yourself a pat on the back! What a great example!

Why don't I compare UK in 2256AD to Mongolia in 2000BC? You know, just to prove a point like?

------------->

 

[JHE]

Iran has one of the more enlightened views of transgendered men when compared with other predominently Islamic states.

There was a very good little documentary about this on the telly a year or so ago. It was horrendous. It is NOT an enlightened set-up at all. The docu followed several prospective sex-change candidates. It was perfectly clear that most of them were not really transsexuals at all. They, all men, were homosexuals who were in terrible danger, including of course danger from the state which would execute them, and were conned (by themselves and others) into claiming that they must be women really. It was tragic. One young man, who was filmed many times with his male partner, went through treatment, including surgery, I think, and it was plain that his partner was no longer interested in the same way. Well, he wouldn't be, would he? It was awful, awful, awful. It made a lot of money for the sex-change doctor, though - a thoroughly unscrupulous bastard, in my opinion.

What a choice: death, exile or surgical mutilation!

 

[JHE]

I wasn't comparing Britain today to Iran today. I was comparing Britain 100-50 years ago to Iran today. Get it right.

I don't know when there was last execution for homosexuals in this country, but it wasn't within the last 100 years.

 

[tangentlama]

Beetroot for brunch. Beetroot for lunch. Beetroot for dinner and beetroot for supper.

 

[tangentlama]

There was a very good little documentary about this on the telly a year or so ago. It was horrendous. It is NOT an enlightened set-up at all. The docu followed several prospective sex-change candidates. It was perfectly clear that most of them were not really transsexuals at all. They, all men, were homosexuals who were in terrible danger, including of course danger from the state which would execute them, and were conned (by themselves and others) into claiming that they must be women really. It was tragic. One young man, who was filmed many times with his male partner, went through treatment, including surgery, I think, and it was plain that his partner was no longer interested in the same way. Well, he wouldn't be, would he? It was awful, awful, awful. It made a lot of money for the sex-change doctor, though - a thoroughly unscrupulous bastard, in my opinion.

What a choice: death, exile or surgical mutilation!

I saw that documentary too, and came to much the same conclusion - that some men were transgendered, and others could have been homosexual seeking to be acceptable within Iranian Islamic jurisprudence, whilst others were transsexuals. But look at similar tales of transgendered operations in the West, and you see pretty much the same mix in those undertaking such operations, including those who after the operation, feel they've made a dreadful mistake, those who are truly transgendered, those who are just trying to fit in social norms of male+female coupling. Underlying some of the reversals of feeling in the West are societies norms and a desire to fit in and 'be socially acceptable normal male+female couple'. There was a documentary about such a man - I think he was English living in the south of England - he had shoulder length blonde hair and became a man again - I think his name was Linda?

 

[tangentlama]

Is being transgender a mental disorder?
A psychological condition is considered a mental disorder only if it causes distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their transgender feelings and traits to be distressing or disabling, which implies that being transgender does not constitute a mental disorder per se. For these people, the significant problem is finding the resources, such as hormone treatment, surgery, and the social support they need, in order to express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. However, some transgender people do find their transgender feelings to be distressing or disabling. This is particularly true of transsexuals, who experience their gender identity as incongruent with their birth sex or with the gender role associated with that sex. This distressing feeling of incongruity is called gender dysphoria.
According to the diagnostic standards of American psychiatry, as set forth in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, people who experience intense, persistent gender dysphoria can be given the diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder. This diagnosis is highly controversial among some mental health professionals and transgender people. Some contend that the diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender variance and should be eliminated. Others argue that, because the health care system in the United States requires a diagnosis to justify medical or psychological treatment, it is essential to retain the diagnosis to ensure access to care.

http://www.queerty.com/why-are-tran...he-american-psychiatric-association-20090519/

 

[Barking_Mad]

As I said on the other thread, it is absolutely true that the British media have been shouting their heads off about this louder than anyone else, even the Americans. And it is also true that the BBC have been particularly outspoken. It makes you wonder. Remember how long the British have been messing around in the middle east, and how long the memories of the upper classes are, and how the head honchos of the Beeb were probably all buggered by the bigwigs in the military and the foreign office in the showers at Eton.

That was then this is now. Or so they'd have you believe. Give it 20 years, maybe less, and we'll find out that the government were up to all sorts in this election.

 

[CyberRose]

Beetroot for brunch. Beetroot for lunch. Beetroot for dinner and beetroot for supper.

What a daft argument (you don't even know when dinner is and you missed tea out completely )

 

[goldenecitrone]

Apparently it was a couple of Iranian employees working in the British Embassy who incited hundreds of thousands of people to go out on the streets to protest. I guess I've never really understood how powerful we are.