Key victory for migrant workers
- Thread starter belboid
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lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
It depends what kind of nationalist, Jessiedog, there are as many nationalisms as there are nations.
nightbreed
Im Bored
lewislewis said:
Is there a good kind of nationalist?
Are scottish, welsh and irish nationalists good but british nationalists bad?
There are some incredibly confusing views that pander to nationalism amongst some of the left.
If some of this energy was channelled towards the INTERnational working class maybe the left wouldnt be in the rut its in .
Jessiedog said:Internationalists support the free flow of people.
Nationalists (like tbaldwin,) don't.
Unionise and organise.
Workers of the world unite!
Woof
Jessie. The only Internationalists who support the free flow of capital and labour are Tories.
Socialists have always believed in protectionism.
Workers of the World Unite does not mean backing policies that lead to poorer countries losing the skilled workers they most need.
Jessie you back policies that make the world a much more unequal place. And it doesnt matter how many times you try and wrongly label me a nationalist....... What matters is that your backing those policies.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Bullshit. The Tories are not and never will be Internationalists; they're far too parochial.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
No, baldwin, you're wrong. There is nothing Internationalist about the Tories. Though what slavery has to do with Internationalism is anyone's guess. It's more mental diahorrhea from you.
nino_savatte said:
What slavery has to do with Internationalism is that it was International.
But not in a good way.
But the idea that the idea that Tories are just parochial busy bodies is just plain shit.
And the ruling class have always had global ambitions. They used to take people by force now they just encourage them economically. Something Fanon called " Economic Slavery"
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
The slave trade may have been international in the sense that it involved transporting commodities between lands, but it is not an example of Internationalism. You also overlooked the Liberals who also engaged in the trade.
Your grasp of history, like your ability to construct a coherent argument, is woeful.
You'd do almost anything to defend the Tories, being one yourself.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
Nah, you're a Tory pig. If anyone was to cut you, you'd bleed a deep shade of blue.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
nino_savatte said:
I think Baldy is confusing internationalism (solidaristic socio-political links with other nations) with imperialism (dominion over other nations).
It's an easy mistake to make if you're a fuckwit.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
ViolentPanda said:I think Baldy is confusing internationalism (solidaristic socio-political links with other nations) with imperialism (dominion over other nations).
It's an easy mistake to make if you're a fuckwit.
Either that or he's confusing it with the soapy concept of international free trade.
ViolentPanda said:I think Baldy is confusing internationalism (solidaristic socio-political links with other nations) with imperialism (dominion over other nations).
It's an easy mistake to make if you're a fuckwit.
Your right i am confused.
I mean when did it become a good thing for Socialist Internationalists to start supporting free market policies on migration?
I think that supporting economic migration is a preety fucking stupid thing to do if you call yourself a Socialist.
untethered
For industry & decency
British jobs should go to British workers.
If British workers can't be found for British jobs then there can perhaps be a small amount of controlled migration with workers on short-stay permits so they don't get settled. Perhaps a maximum of 1 year in every 5.
If British workers can't be found for British jobs then there can perhaps be a small amount of controlled migration with workers on short-stay permits so they don't get settled. Perhaps a maximum of 1 year in every 5.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
amazing isnt it how baldwin ALWAYS turns any thread involving none-uk workers into one being all about his nationalist immigration policy (attracting charmers like untethered to his side whilst doing so), and doing so by simply (and simplistically) repeating the same two lines over and over and over and over and over and over and over. It almost makes one think he hasn't actually got anything new to say. His 'internationalism' is a sick joke, leaving workers to die because capitalists dont want to invest in 'their' countries
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Too true.tbaldwin said:
Why are you interested, it's not as if you're either socialist or internationalist, is it?
Because life is that simple, isn't it Balders?
Why don't you be honest for once and admit that complexity makes straightforward solutions difficult, and makes cretinous dogmatism a la "authoritarian socialism" both worthless and pointless?
Ah, I forgot, you couldn't do that because you'd have to admit that you're wrong!
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
untethered said:
I wonder what other nationalistic cliches you can come up with?
How about England for the English?
belboid said:
belboid.
Taking doctors,engineers,teachers and nurses from poorer countries might sound like a great Internationalist idea to you but to me it is a sick joke.
And why would capitalists invest in countries that have lost all their skilled workers??? der.....
ViolentPanda said:Too true.
Why are you interested, it's not as if you're either socialist or internationalist, is it?
Because life is that simple, isn't it Balders?
Why don't you be honest for once and admit that complexity makes straightforward solutions difficult, and makes cretinous dogmatism a la "authoritarian socialism" both worthless and pointless?
Ah, I forgot, you couldn't do that because you'd have to admit that you're wrong!
Your right cretinous dogamitism is probably not the whole answer.
But neither is supporting free market policies on migration.
I think its sad that people who view themselves as Socialist or just on the side of Social Justice, seem so incapable of a rational discussion about the subject.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
And destroying another country's economy by dumping your cheap goods onto their markets isn't exactly Internationalist, is it? India's cotton industry was totally destroyed by the British Empire...or did you forget that?
I noticed that you avoided my point about international free trade.
treelover said:
Personally I think Jack Dromey is an honourable man,
No the T & G didn't sell out the Gate Gourmet workers: the Govt threatened to sue the T & G for £43 million if the baggage handlers went out on strike to support the GG workers. Obviously Tony Woodley can't risk bankrupting the Union when the Union laws mean that the govt would win that fight in court.
That's why the Unions tried to get a change in the union laws recently. but what they need to do is stop giving the Labour Party ££, when they are slitting the Unions throats.
But back to Jack Dromey and Tony W - I know people that know them and have heard them speak etc. They are good people who have a history of fighting for the most excluded of workers. They genuinely always want to hear what the 'rank and file' have to say.
they just haven't delivered as such in other areas but the T & G is so wedded to the history of the Labour party you're not going to get much more really.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
I saw Dromey speak at a Grunwick commemoration event last year. He went down very badly and the representatives of the Gate Gourmet workers were practically spitting feathers at how they'd been sold out by the T&G. Dromey also need a good line in hectoring, shouting and bullying other speakers on the podium.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I agree.tbaldwin said:
In which case, why are you incapable of a rational discussion on the subject?
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