ken's cycle plans, is there an election soon?

[London_Calling]

Takes away a whole load of legitimacy from it though.

Nah. The idea of this partic scheme is in large part to broaden the market for cycling to include tourists and people wanting to get from terminus to terminus, and of course many others. Most of the people for whom this scheme wil prove attractive will be able to afford the scheme.

TBF, it's not partic intended to serve the folks who can't afford £100 on a pre-paid Mastercard. I guess there might even be a scheme for them down the road, but this most def isn't for for that demographic.

 

[beeboo]

TBF, it's not partic intended to serve the folks who can't afford £100 on a pre-paid Mastercard. I guess there might even be a scheme for them down the road, but this most def isn't for for that demographic.

I wouldn't say that, I'd just say that you inevitably need an electronic method of insuring against theft and vandalism, and I can't think of another one other than using a deposit on a bank card.

In the same way you could argue it's not appropriate for Ken to be spending money on a transport scheme that isn't accessible to the elderly or disabled.

This'll all have to go through an Equalities Impact Assessment anyway which is designed to work this out.

 

[cybertect]

So they actually take £100 out of your account? Seems very unusual, that's not typical of the way these type of "security" payments work, normally you are only charged when and if there is a problem. Got a link?

My guess would be that it would work in the same way that hotels do when you check in - it doesn't actually charge your card, but reserves £100 from your available credit.

i.e. If you have £500 credit available on your card, you can only spend £400 elsewhere until the reservation is released by the hotel when you check out.

If you don't have £100 free on the account, the reservation will be denied and you won't be able to use a bike.

 

[jusali]

Strikes me as utter tosh too. Just another cash extraction technique on the new bourgoiues (SP) green movement going on at the moment where overpayed toffs try doing something "environmentally friendlly" to appease their nagging guilt for their overconsumption. Meanwhile the rest of us (England) get a tax rise. It's bullshit of the highest order.
Maintenance? Tracking? Safety? How the fuck are they gonna organise that?
Oh yeah they'll probably sell it too "First (tm)" for about 10 quid in 2 yrs or so

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Strikes me as utter tosh too. Just another cash extraction technique on the new bourgoiues (SP) green movement going on at the moment where overpayed toffs try doing something "environmentally friendlly" to appease their nagging guilt for their overconsumption. Meanwhile the rest of us (England) get a tax rise. It's bullshit of the highest order.
Maintenance? Tracking? Safety? How the fuck are they gonna organise that?
Oh yeah they'll probably sell it too "First (tm)" for about 10 quid in 2 yrs or so

Got it in one. The Green movement are in their political guise the same borgouisie busy body authoritarians like the Inland Missionaries who went to East London but just dressed up with a modern cloth.

 

[Gixxer1000]

What's wrong with the Albert Embankment/Lambeth Bridge junction? That's on my route to work and I think it's fine? Do you want a cycle lane all the way through the junction?

Ok well for starters the Lane disappears at the apex of the corner - as you turn left to go over the bridge, encouraging drivers to cut into the kerb, encroaching on cyclists,secondly there is a drain slap bang on the apex forcing cyclists out- result= dead cyclist eventually.

Incidently there is a cycle route through the roundabout.

Do you realy cycle in

 

[Gixxer1000]

If TfL are so concerned about cyclists safety why dont they enforce or encourage the enforcement of cycle only traffic light boxes?

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

Got it in one. The Green movement are in their political guise the same borgouisie busy body authoritarians like the Inland Missionaries who went to East London but just dressed up with a modern cloth.

What reactionary, uber dramatic bollocks you've been spouting on this thread.

 

[Crispy]

How is this Green?
Cycling is just a quicker, cheaper, healthier way of getting around the city - green or not, it should be encouraged as a human-scale transportation method.

 

[beeboo]

Ok well for starters the Lane disappears at the apex of the corner - as you turn left to go over the bridge, encouraging drivers to cut into the kerb, encroaching on cyclists,secondly there is a drain slap bang on the apex forcing cyclists out- result= dead cyclist eventually.

Incidently there is a cycle route through the roundabout.

Do you realy cycle in

hmmm - now I'm questionning my own memory of the specifics, I haven't cycled in a couple of weeks. But I've always found it an easy junction.

Wish they'd do something about the ridiculously narrow "lane" over Lambeth bridge itself though, that has you cycling in the gutter

 

[Gixxer1000]

that has you cycling in the gutter

Hexactly, bridge expansion joints are literaly a pain in the bolloxs too.

 

[Termite Man]

Takes away a whole load of legitimacy from it though. OK you can get a pre paid Master card but your objection tomy objection assumes that someone who can only get a pre paid card is actually in the financial position to put £100 on it for the deposit.

I'm interested to know if you support the deal which Ken did to get free ( or cheap can'ty remember which it is ) bus travel for the unemployed ( or whoever gets the free travel ) this is helping people who may not be able to get buses everywhere , and making things available for the poor is something you seem to like , but it was done by Livingstone and it appears that you think everything he does is hit !

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I'm interested to know if you support the deal which Ken did to get free ( or cheap can'ty remember which it is ) bus travel for the unemployed ( or whoever gets the free travel ) this is helping people who may not be able to get buses everywhere , and making things available for the poor is something you seem to like , but it was done by Livingstone and it appears that you think everything he does is hit !

I agree with giving cheap / free fares to the unwaged but not teenagers because of the extra anti social behaviour that has been caused by it in some areas.

 

[citydreams]

So you'd rather that many teenagers were prevented from having free travel because of the bad behaviour of the few??

But surely you can cope with the anti-social behaviour with stringing the little blighters up and public hangings?

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

I agree with giving cheap / free fares to the unwaged .

The problem with just targetting the 'unwaged' is that it becomes something else you lose the second you get a job. Of course most low income workers in the inner 2-3 zones are already on PT, because of the lack of parking but there are a lot of people who use often quite old cars to commute to low income jobs round the north circular and other parts of outer london.

If Ken really wanted to do something about *Greater* London's air quality and congestion, cheap bus travel for everybody living in London and earning under x might be a good move- though not cheap nor easy to administer.

I'm shooting myself massively in the foot here, because visiting London is my 'hobby' but putting up oyster fares for tourists might be one way to fund this

say Low income Londoner 50p
Higher income Londoner £1
Non-londoner £1.50

I've no idea if this would be legal or practical.

 

[beeboo]

Of course most low income workers in the inner 2-3 zones are already on PT, because of the lack of parking but there are a lot of people who use often quite old cars to commute to low income jobs round the north circular and other parts of outer london.

If Ken really wanted to do something about *Greater* London's air quality and congestion, cheap bus travel for everybody living in London and earning under x might be a good move- though not cheap nor easy to administer.

Hazarding a guess, I would have thought for people not making radial journeys (centre<->suburbs), convenience is going to be as a big a factor as cost, because you haven't got the bus routes (and definitely not the tube lines) that make those kind of connections.

but putting up oyster fares for tourists might be one way to fund this

say Low income Londoner 50p
Higher income Londoner £1
Non-londoner £1.50

I've no idea if this would be legal or practical.

Well there is already effectively a large cost differential between any season ticket (weekly/monthly/annual) that most commuters use, and one day travelcards or single trips that tourists would use, particularly when you factor in that some non-londoners will be paying the premium for paper tickets rather than oyster.

 

[corporate whore]

I'm interested to know if you support the deal which Ken did to get free ( or cheap can'ty remember which it is ) bus travel for the unemployed ( or whoever gets the free travel ) this is helping people who may not be able to get buses everywhere , and making things available for the poor is something you seem to like , but it was done by Livingstone and it appears that you think everything he does is hit !

That plan looks like it's all going tits up anyway, due to Chavez's fall-out with Exxon. All the Venezuelan overseas oil assets have been frozen, including the money to pay for the cheap bus fares.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...x?guid={4B934A1A-B86E-43F6-AF3F-8238718A0718}

Time to get on the bike, hired or not.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

So you'd rather that many teenagers were prevented from having free travel because of the bad behaviour of the few??

But surely you can cope with the anti-social behaviour with stringing the little blighters up and public hangings?

The problem is free travel has encouraged an irresponsiblity with it. The young people don't respect the public transport cos they don't pay for it. I don't like having to hit those who are not yobs but free travel does seem to hve increased antisocial behavoir. Its also causing resentment among those who pay fares are having their journeys disrupted by t hose who don't.

Public hangings!! Not my preference. The Stocks now that is a different story

 

[beeboo]

Hopefully the new oyster based "zip" photocards should help with the kids-on-buses problem. It means they'll be able to have their free travel concession removed if they abuse the priviledge. Card deactivated, won't be able to board the bus.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Hopefully the new oyster based "zip" photocards should help with the kids-on-buses problem. It means they'll be able to have their free travel concession removed if they abuse the priviledge. Card deactivated, won't be able to board the bus.

Thats one way round it. I'd also go a bit further and have weekday free travel time limited. So they could travel free 08 to 09.15 and 15.30 - 17.00 but at other times they paid a fare. This would only apply during school terms and could be relaxed in school holidays.

 

[beeboo]

Thats one way round it. I'd also go a bit further and have weekday free travel time limited. So they could travel free 08 to 09.15 and 15.30 - 17.00 but at other times they paid a fare. This would only apply during school terms and could be relaxed in school holidays.

What about travel to/from sports and after school activities etc?

The real problem is what is causing kids to use buses as mobile youth clubs - ie that there aren't enough actual youth clubs and there is fuck all for kids to do.

But that is getting waaaaaaaaaaaay off the topic.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

What about travel to/from sports and after school activities etc?

Good point.

The real problem is what is causing kids to use buses as mobile youth clubs - ie that there aren't enough actual youth clubs and there is fuck all for kids to do.
.

Agree with that.

 

[jusali]

Bollocks, they've got legs haven't they. Use a bit of enterprise to earn the money to get a secondhand bike etc....fucksake what we raising a bunch of fucking brain dead pansies or something Jeez
Old people need free bus travel 'cos their pins don't work so well but da yoof they got fitness on their side

 

[fjydj]

http://cycleliciousness.blogspot.com/2007/11/more-bikes-means-less-accidents.html

read it all and weep:

The City of Copenhagen's biannual Cycle Report [the link is to a pdf and it's in Danish] is a goldmine of great statistics regarding our bicycle culture.

Even though our bike infrastructure is highly-advanced, the City is constantly revising and reviewing all the issues regarding integration of bikes in the streets. It is an ongoing, long-term affair.

Bikes have equal access everywhere in the city, but there are as a rule dedicated bike lanes on most roads with traffic.

When Copenhagen builds new bike lanes on a stretch of road, there is a bicycle traffic increase of 20% and a 10% decrease in car traffic. Bike lanes subsequently increase cyclists' safety and perception of safety, encouraging them to ride more.....



...Not everyone is thrilled about new bike lanes or increased bike usage. It is often a bit shocking to read about this anti-bike sentiment. Read the message posted under this article in the Edinburgh News. Although the agressive tone is also seen in some posts by cyclists.

this is a great blog by the way along with its sister site http://copenhagengirlsonbikes.blogspot.com/

Does any one have any more information on the Paris bike scheme? A £100 deposit sounds pretty off putting too, I've never paid that much to hire a bike before and also 6000 bikes across London is piss all. 60,000 would be more like it.

 

[Crispy]

it's not a deposit. the money only leaves your account if you lose the bike.

 

[fjydj]

ahh, according to wiki the cost of the velib is covered by (substantial revenue from) advertising so this shouldn't be coming from the headline budget for cycling AND walking uses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velib

http://www.en.velib.paris.fr/comment_ca_marche

Obtain a short-term subscription and the first 30 minutes of each journey will be on us. At the end of the validity period, the cost of journey over 30 minutes will be deducted from your bank account together with your subscription fee. You can take out a short-term subscription agreement at any Vélib’ Service Point equipped with terminals.

** A security deposit is required for all short-term subscriptions. A 150 € bank card direct pre-authorization is necessary for this type of subscription. Failure to comply with the General Terms and Conditions of Access and Use may cause parts or the entire deposit amount thereof to be withheld by Vélib’. Total deposit amount will be forfeited if bike is not returned with in 24 hours.

 

[London_Calling]

Okay, that all makes sense. It's not a conventional deposit, it's a £100 penalty charged against your credit card and which you agree they can automatically take in particular circs (non-return of a bike).