London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
I think the 'Heart Throb' logo is a winner as well.
ken's cycle plans, is there an election soon?
- Thread starter fjydj
- Start date
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
A disaster in the making. The deposits are too high for those who are unwaged or on benefits. The hire prices are more than buying a second hand bike if you use the hire bikes for more than a couple ofhours a week. The bikes are ugly, heavy and old fashioned. Not having a manned collection point means that the bikes are likely to be vandalised before you even get to them.
Yet again the London taxpayer has to fork out for one of Livingslimes ill thought out election gimmicks.
Yet again the London taxpayer has to fork out for one of Livingslimes ill thought out election gimmicks.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
I shouldn't worry, KJ. If Ken wins the election, I've a feeling this will quietly be dropped. "well we looked at it and we found it wasn't practical because of x, y and z............"
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Yup looks like you are probably right there. Spend taxpayers money on big flash idea then drop it if you get elected.
Surely its against electoral law to spend public money or make big flash announcements for the purposes of re election.
And some of livingslimes arselickers on here say he that ken isn't corrupt.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Death to everyone but 4x4 drivers! Everything is futile! No good can ever come of anything and all plans are doomed! Law abiding car driving innocent miserable taxpayers unite against this politically correct commie madness and drive as one in the bus lane!
No just appealing for balance. Which is not someething that is coming from either Livingslime or his winnits.
Ken stated his interest in a velib-a-like scheme for London as soon as the Paris scheme went live, and I imagine there has been on going research in between then and this announcement. The timing may be cynically linked to the up coming elections, but I don't think this will just be shelved. He's not exactly shyed away from implimenting radical transport policies.
I think it's a fantastic idea.
I think it's a fantastic idea.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Nor lining his own and Lee Jaspers pockets either.
I think its going to be a fuck up. Preferably one leaving a whole lot of egg on Livingslimes face.
A cycle hire scheme could have worked but this is just a disaster waiting to happen for the reasons I gave above.
citydreams
on the road again
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
I'm glad you've got fuck all to do with running London's transport then
More small buses making connections with main bus routes would have been a much better way to spend this money than a fancy publicity stunt.
citydreams
on the road again
really? I look forward to you writing a detailed report on why it is a better spend of the money, cause until then you just sound like a typical white van man.
don't forget to include take-up rates, roi, changes in demographics, emissions, and of course BUDGET!
Ok, one at a time:
What deposit? You need get a £100 fine if you don't return the bike, that is not the same as a deposit, the money wouldn't be deducted unless you lose or steal the bike.
It is not supposed to compete with owning a second hand bike, it is an alternative to bus/tube/foot for central London journeys. I expect the majority of users will be people who may have entered central London by another mode, and take a bike to complete their journey, or to make short trips across town during the day. They will still appeal to people who currently own a bike, because there are many occasions where it's neither possible or practical to be encumbered with your own bike.
Deliberately ugly and old-fashioned to deter theft. The weight is a limited concern given they are only designed for short trips. The "granny basket" is highly practical.
Crime is obviously a concern, but there is little incentive for theft so it would only be mindless vandalism which is a concern. Potential targets for vandalism exist everywhere, the best you can do is minimise it. Having manned stations would massively increase cost and reduce the distribution and drop-off points to an extent the scheme would be severely limited. It's worth the risk of some vandalism and presumably the Paris scheme has not been plagued by vandals.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
You just sound like the sort of authoritiarian so beloved of our Government. At least you get more than one point of view from a white van man unlike yourself and fellow Livingslime arselickers.
mauvais
on reddit or something
What happens to the person hiring it if it's stolen?
I think London/the UK is much more likely to have a vandalism problem than Paris, as I never really saw much damage to public property there at all really - I don't know why.
Overall though not as a Londoner I think it's a good idea - the one concern I'd have is this potentially adds thousands of cyclists who've no idea about road safety or how to ride responsibly. I go everywhere by bike and I see far too many.
I think London/the UK is much more likely to have a vandalism problem than Paris, as I never really saw much damage to public property there at all really - I don't know why.
Overall though not as a Londoner I think it's a good idea - the one concern I'd have is this potentially adds thousands of cyclists who've no idea about road safety or how to ride responsibly. I go everywhere by bike and I see far too many.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
According to the Guardian today you need to find £100 to even get the bike out and it must be done with a credit or debit card (dont forget there are loads of Londoners without bank accounts so this excludes these people straight away).
Up to a point I would agree with yo but I believe that the number of people who would use the bikes for this purpose is very small. Most places in Central London are reachable by public transport. I can get from my office in Victoria to Tottenham Court Road in less time on a 24 bus or by getting the Northern Line at Embankment in less time than it can be cycled. I think that Kens supporters havve bent the figures for this to make it look as if it will be more popular than it will be.
Agree about the basket. But the miniscule nujmber of people who will use this will be further put off by the bikes themselves.
But that is France not the UK. Different attitudes prevail there. If it is a choice between increasing cost by having manned pick up stations (augmented by unmanned drop off points) and a whollly unmanned system which will be vandalised to fuck within a few months (or at least before the scheme is quietly forgotten and shelved) thereby negating any savings.
I think it's designed for short point-to-point trips and you're not expected to leave them anywhere other than a desginated point. So it would really only be bike-jackings you'd need to worry about
I guess if you'd left it unattended anywhere other than a designated point then it'd be your problem.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Knowing how the govt / livingslime works if the bike is stolen then you would probably lose your deposit and the hirer would be blamed.
Spot on. It doesnt take into account that a sizable proportion of Brits are scum when it comes to how they treat public property.
I await with interest the results of the first court case because the bikes haven't been maintained and / or tampered with.
Your point about riding responsibly is a good one. Remember how Livingslime boasted of the positive effects of giving young people free travel. Now contrast that with the reality where buses are now mobile nightmares full of agressive little shits.
fjydj
is specified
i was thinking the same. I can see where the money gets swallowed making those brilliant detailed plans, that just dump you off a cycle path just where you need one.
The dead hand of risk aversion of our bureaucrats and Tfl is the main problem we have here. we are never going to have copenhagen style cycle use or facilities whilst people like city dream are involved.
snowy_again
Slush
Is it me, or are there a lot of 'glass half empty' people on this post?
fjydj
is specified
I've found some figures that put the initial £50 million a year into context, and it looks like that's for both cycling and pedestrian use:
http://philtaylor.org.uk/?p=1095
Today the Mayoral press machine went to town on the headline that the Mayor is to invest £500 million in walking and biking. Before you fall off your seat remember that this is over ten years - one way of making the number seem bigger than it is.
The £500 million sounds like a rather modest sum when you compare it with the bus subsidy over ten years £6.2 billion or the Tube subsidy over ten years £5.5 billion or the DLR subsidy over ten years £800 million. None of the later numbers include capital spending which would make the comparison even more grotesque. It looks like the two Green assembly members have sold themselves somewhat cheaply. The Mayor could not have got his budget through without them.
The picture of the Mayor and the rather cheap Jenny Jones on their Post Office issue bikes made me laugh.
http://philtaylor.org.uk/?p=1095
Today the Mayoral press machine went to town on the headline that the Mayor is to invest £500 million in walking and biking. Before you fall off your seat remember that this is over ten years - one way of making the number seem bigger than it is.
The £500 million sounds like a rather modest sum when you compare it with the bus subsidy over ten years £6.2 billion or the Tube subsidy over ten years £5.5 billion or the DLR subsidy over ten years £800 million. None of the later numbers include capital spending which would make the comparison even more grotesque. It looks like the two Green assembly members have sold themselves somewhat cheaply. The Mayor could not have got his budget through without them.
The picture of the Mayor and the rather cheap Jenny Jones on their Post Office issue bikes made me laugh.
Crikey KJ, you're very negative!
So they actually take £100 out of your account? Seems very unusual, that's not typical of the way these type of "security" payments work, normally you are only charged when and if there is a problem. Got a link?
OK so if you haven't got a debit/credit card you can't use it. Can't use it if your blind or disabled either. Or are travelling with kids. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
It doesn't have to be faster, people might prefer not to travel by bus or tube. I imagine for many trips of 1-2 tube stops it'll be faster to cycle than any other alternative though.
Personally I think a lot of people would welcome the introduction of additional choice.
Think this is largely a matter of how it is perceived and marketed.
I don't think it would be vandalised to fuck. There were lots of concerns that the electronic displays on bus shelters would be vandalised to fuck when they were introduced, largely unrealised.
I agree vandalism is a concern, but not a showstopper.
So they actually take £100 out of your account? Seems very unusual, that's not typical of the way these type of "security" payments work, normally you are only charged when and if there is a problem. Got a link?
OK so if you haven't got a debit/credit card you can't use it. Can't use it if your blind or disabled either. Or are travelling with kids. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
It doesn't have to be faster, people might prefer not to travel by bus or tube. I imagine for many trips of 1-2 tube stops it'll be faster to cycle than any other alternative though.
Personally I think a lot of people would welcome the introduction of additional choice.
Think this is largely a matter of how it is perceived and marketed.
I don't think it would be vandalised to fuck. There were lots of concerns that the electronic displays on bus shelters would be vandalised to fuck when they were introduced, largely unrealised.
I agree vandalism is a concern, but not a showstopper.
fjydj
is specified
I'm a glass full person usually its just the way cyclists have been treated over the last 2 terms of ken and tfl that is maddening. Cycling was ignored at best and possibly even discouraged until I reckon the take up of cycling shot up after the tube bombings.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
No the cycling flag is being waved to appease the green authoritiarians and to make Livingslime look good in the media.
Somehow I don't think that this is the best way to spend taxpayers money.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
1/10th the subsidy of buses? That's supposed to be peanuts when even a glance says it's not going to move as many people at launch?
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
They're won't be a link.
It's done exactly as you describe - same as, say, a hotel taking your card details just incase you raid the mini bar and forget to mention it when checking out.
And anyone can now get a pre-paid Mastercard - works exactly as a credit card except you put cash on it first.
If you can't afford a £100 quid - shame, but it doesn't illigitimise the scheme.
citydreams
on the road again
rubbish - this just shows how little you know about funding for cycling in London! it maddens me that someone who knows so little can type such bollox without first finding out some facts.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Takes away a whole load of legitimacy from it though. OK you can get a pre paid Master card but your objection tomy objection assumes that someone who can only get a pre paid card is actually in the financial position to put £100 on it for the deposit.
I wager £5 that most of these bikes will be either vandalised, stolen or at the bottom of the Thames before the end of the first year or when the scheme is abandoned which ever comes sooner.
citydreams
on the road again
ok, to answer your objections KBJ
1) we're (unofficially) looking at ways of running this through the Oyster card so those on income support &c. will be able to get free travel..
2) the large number of new bikes available will mean a bigger 2nd hand market so cheaper bikes overall
3) vandalism only happens where people have no pride in their possessions. have some pride man. this is an amazing idea that could actually do some good.
1) we're (unofficially) looking at ways of running this through the Oyster card so those on income support &c. will be able to get free travel..
2) the large number of new bikes available will mean a bigger 2nd hand market so cheaper bikes overall
3) vandalism only happens where people have no pride in their possessions. have some pride man. this is an amazing idea that could actually do some good.
